Axial Flow Supercharger
08-20-2009, 09:55 PM
#5776
whines all the way home
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Richard please don't take my comments as hostile as I have no ill intent towards you. Having said that, I have seen many people come and go making similar claims of future product development but never see a finished product. It usually just turns into pages of discussion without any real progress. If you look around the same forced induction principles are still around with no one new appearing. There was a different style of supercharger proposed on the RX-7 forum and it went on for dozens of pages and for months. Tons of people expressed interest and there was tons of discussion but never a working product. It would be nice for someone to already have developed a working model on the car with actual test results before they make it public. An actual representation of interested parties can not be judged before a product is finalized, especially in this market. Most people don't own a car for more than a few years and typically do what they want to with them with what is easiest now. Many people will express an interest in forced induction but will probably go a more conventional route before this ever gets done. Also, most people don't like being the guinea pig.
Now despite this, I am interested in the idea and would actually like to see a working model of one. I am not opposed to the idea in any way and welcome new developments which give the consumers more options than just the purely traditional. I hope that you are sincere and serious about bringing this to the market. It's not that I don't want to believe you, it's just that so many others before you have ruined the marketing of new products that it is hard to believe I will ever see it. Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.
I would like to hear about some technical ideas of your though. In other words do you intend for this to be an axial style exhaust driven turbocharger or belt driven axial supercharger? Also how many stages do you propose in the compressor? Is it just a single stage or multiple like current jet engines?
Now despite this, I am interested in the idea and would actually like to see a working model of one. I am not opposed to the idea in any way and welcome new developments which give the consumers more options than just the purely traditional. I hope that you are sincere and serious about bringing this to the market. It's not that I don't want to believe you, it's just that so many others before you have ruined the marketing of new products that it is hard to believe I will ever see it. Regardless, I wish you the best of luck.
I would like to hear about some technical ideas of your though. In other words do you intend for this to be an axial style exhaust driven turbocharger or belt driven axial supercharger? Also how many stages do you propose in the compressor? Is it just a single stage or multiple like current jet engines?
08-20-2009, 10:12 PM
#5777
Life begins @ 30 psi
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what effort are you talking about?
please take a look at the site for a picture they have up. you see how small that thing is? it looks like something that can be installed in under an hour if it were available.
as for 300+whp, thats you, not everyone. and how did you get a starting number of 300? is it because its been whats survivable and reliable so far?
realistically 50whp is "appreciable" is all i'm saying. i'm not contesting with what you like, but i'd like to play it on the safe side. and not everyone "wants" 300+ just so they can compete powerwise with their competitors. i for one am not a drag racer...and that would be a nice touch.
sorry, and i mean ~50whp.
please take a look at the site for a picture they have up. you see how small that thing is? it looks like something that can be installed in under an hour if it were available.
as for 300+whp, thats you, not everyone. and how did you get a starting number of 300? is it because its been whats survivable and reliable so far?
realistically 50whp is "appreciable" is all i'm saying. i'm not contesting with what you like, but i'd like to play it on the safe side. and not everyone "wants" 300+ just so they can compete powerwise with their competitors. i for one am not a drag racer...and that would be a nice touch.
sorry, and i mean ~50whp.
08-20-2009, 11:32 PM
#5778
what effort are you talking about?
please take a look at the site for a picture they have up. you see how small that thing is? it looks like something that can be installed in under an hour if it were available.
as for 300+whp, thats you, not everyone. and how did you get a starting number of 300? is it because its been whats survivable and reliable so far?
realistically 50whp is "appreciable" is all i'm saying. i'm not contesting with what you like, but i'd like to play it on the safe side. and not everyone "wants" 300+ just so they can compete powerwise with their competitors. i for one am not a drag racer...and that would be a nice touch.
sorry, and i mean ~50whp.
please take a look at the site for a picture they have up. you see how small that thing is? it looks like something that can be installed in under an hour if it were available.
as for 300+whp, thats you, not everyone. and how did you get a starting number of 300? is it because its been whats survivable and reliable so far?
realistically 50whp is "appreciable" is all i'm saying. i'm not contesting with what you like, but i'd like to play it on the safe side. and not everyone "wants" 300+ just so they can compete powerwise with their competitors. i for one am not a drag racer...and that would be a nice touch.
sorry, and i mean ~50whp.
I know I'm a little late in the game here, but I just wanted to give some of my own thoughts to Mr. Richard Paul. As I'm not going to read through 232 pages worth of posts, I'll just hope that this hasn't already been mentioned.
I think it would probably be wise from a financial standpoint to not concern yourself with vehicle specific kits. Instead, stick with substantially customizable/scalable superchargers, and let the performance shops and kit makers use the hardware you specialize in. This frees you up to work strictly on compressor designs, and thus opening you up to a much larger market. I would love an axial supercharger for my 8, but I'm sure vette, and Nissan Z, and mustang owners would too. In fact, you never know who else might be interested. By not bogging yourself down with just a fraction of the potential market segment, you'll have the opportunity to bring costs down, and in turn, market share up. It'll certainly enable you to be a lot more competitive. After all, most turbo manufacturers do it that way.
I would like to see your products succeed in the automotive tuning scene, Mr. Paul. I personally like the product's potential, and by refocusing your company's mission, I think it'll be the most promising way for me to one day find your product in my RX-8.
-Mark S.
I think it would probably be wise from a financial standpoint to not concern yourself with vehicle specific kits. Instead, stick with substantially customizable/scalable superchargers, and let the performance shops and kit makers use the hardware you specialize in. This frees you up to work strictly on compressor designs, and thus opening you up to a much larger market. I would love an axial supercharger for my 8, but I'm sure vette, and Nissan Z, and mustang owners would too. In fact, you never know who else might be interested. By not bogging yourself down with just a fraction of the potential market segment, you'll have the opportunity to bring costs down, and in turn, market share up. It'll certainly enable you to be a lot more competitive. After all, most turbo manufacturers do it that way.
I would like to see your products succeed in the automotive tuning scene, Mr. Paul. I personally like the product's potential, and by refocusing your company's mission, I think it'll be the most promising way for me to one day find your product in my RX-8.
-Mark S.
Simply slapping one compressor designed for engine A on engine B may be cost effective but you're not going to sell any kits when it performs like dog doo you're not making any money
08-21-2009, 01:27 PM
#5779
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So you're talking about developing a compressor and then platform sharing it to save cost? This is all well and good, but the problem is this is what leads to kits performing very poorly, because the RX-8, Z, Mustang, and Corvette all have VASTLY different engines and thus require different airflow dynamics and thus a different compressor.
Simply slapping one compressor designed for engine A on engine B may be cost effective but you're not going to sell any kits when it performs like dog doo you're not making any money
Note that I said "Instead, stick with substantially customizable/scalable superchargers, and let the performance shops and kit makers use the hardware you specialize in.". The point is to have a scalable design so that it is cost effective to produce various different types dependent upon the needs/request of performance shops. This is no different than turbo manufacturers who have various different compressors, housings, and turbines which can be pieced together based on the requirements/design goals of the particular vehicle. Does that make sense now?
08-21-2009, 03:04 PM
#5780
Richard does "make" different sized compressors for the different requirements of different engines. I have been there and seen them. He is really more into making the compressors, rather than the "kits". Problem is he needs to get them installed first so people can see if they work or not. On the other hand, I buy compressors from a manufacturer who makes lots of different sized ones, and then build kits so they can be installed on RX-8's.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
08-22-2009, 01:31 PM
#5781
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Richard does "make" different sized compressors for the different requirements of different engines. I have been there and seen them. He is really more into making the compressors, rather than the "kits". Problem is he needs to get them installed first so people can see if they work or not. On the other hand, I buy compressors from a manufacturer who makes lots of different sized ones, and then build kits so they can be installed on RX-8's.
Cheers,
Hymee.
Cheers,
Hymee.
And that's exactly my point. It's better to have your products sold through a vendor that has respect in a particular community. Mr. Paul should be working closely with these vendors to provide performance solutions with at least some of his components.
I haven't been a member of this community for long, but looking back when this thread was started, it was easy to see where the major hurdle was in implementing his product with the car. Since ECUs are so integral to the operation of modern cars (and much more complex than they have ever been, obviously), it's nearly pointless to try to add FI to a vehicle that was originally N/A without being able to mod significant parameters in the ECU. Piggybacks might work a little bit, but I don't find them elegant at all. If he wants to at least prove that his superchargers do work, then he needs to quit wasting time and money developing something that is out of his realm of capabilities. I'd imagine the FD3S ecu's have been just about completely cracked, so if he wanted to test his SC out on a rotary, he could have started there.
08-22-2009, 01:48 PM
#5782
I know I'm a little late in the game here, but I just wanted to give some of my own thoughts to Mr. Richard Paul. As I'm not going to read through 232 pages worth of posts, I'll just hope that this hasn't already been mentioned.
I think it would probably be wise from a financial standpoint to not concern yourself with vehicle specific kits. Instead, stick with substantially customizable/scalable superchargers, and let the performance shops and kit makers use the hardware you specialize in. This frees you up to work strictly on compressor designs, and thus opening you up to a much larger market. I would love an axial supercharger for my 8, but I'm sure vette, and Nissan Z, and mustang owners would too. In fact, you never know who else might be interested. By not bogging yourself down with just a fraction of the potential market segment, you'll have the opportunity to bring costs down, and in turn, market share up. It'll certainly enable you to be a lot more competitive. After all, most turbo manufacturers do it that way.
I would like to see your products succeed in the automotive tuning scene, Mr. Paul. I personally like the product's potential, and by refocusing your company's mission, I think it'll be the most promising way for me to one day find your product in my RX-8.
-Mark S.
I think it would probably be wise from a financial standpoint to not concern yourself with vehicle specific kits. Instead, stick with substantially customizable/scalable superchargers, and let the performance shops and kit makers use the hardware you specialize in. This frees you up to work strictly on compressor designs, and thus opening you up to a much larger market. I would love an axial supercharger for my 8, but I'm sure vette, and Nissan Z, and mustang owners would too. In fact, you never know who else might be interested. By not bogging yourself down with just a fraction of the potential market segment, you'll have the opportunity to bring costs down, and in turn, market share up. It'll certainly enable you to be a lot more competitive. After all, most turbo manufacturers do it that way.
I would like to see your products succeed in the automotive tuning scene, Mr. Paul. I personally like the product's potential, and by refocusing your company's mission, I think it'll be the most promising way for me to one day find your product in my RX-8.
-Mark S.
http://www.vacuumdetails.oerlikon.com/rotor.php
08-22-2009, 02:25 PM
#5783
Madcows,
So true about the management side of it. Partly why I have taken a while to perfect my kit. I offer an ECU tuning/editing package with my RX-8 Supercharger kits.
Richard has always been going to also be using my ProTuner when it was made available. It is ready now, but I think Richard has moved on to other things. Richard is stuck between a rock and a hard place. For people to gain acceptance of his compressor, he needs to have it installed on a car. The rotary caught him a little by surprise in that it's airflow requirements for the amount of power it makes was not in the "traditional" range.
Cheers,
Hymee.
So true about the management side of it. Partly why I have taken a while to perfect my kit. I offer an ECU tuning/editing package with my RX-8 Supercharger kits.
Richard has always been going to also be using my ProTuner when it was made available. It is ready now, but I think Richard has moved on to other things. Richard is stuck between a rock and a hard place. For people to gain acceptance of his compressor, he needs to have it installed on a car. The rotary caught him a little by surprise in that it's airflow requirements for the amount of power it makes was not in the "traditional" range.
Cheers,
Hymee.
08-22-2009, 04:18 PM
#5784
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Very fancy, and thus, probably very expensive.
10-18-2009, 06:39 AM
#5786
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Originally Posted by madcows
(It is thus always used in combination with a second vacuum pump capable to work at atmospheric pressure.)
Actually, if such a vacuum pump is ever exposed to atmospheric pressure at full speed, the blades get bent and the pump is gone.
11-15-2016, 02:41 PM
#5787
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help us too !
dear axial flow engineering . ( and awesome rx8 car owners) used to have an ex g'friend that had one(rx 8 ) ! i drove it in mexico loved it - the car ! SHHHH ! this was years before i got married ! we hope that axial flow engineering would also consider a supercharger set up for SAAB cars as they are "upscale " and there are MILLIONS of SAAB owners ! how much HP do the tuners get fr RX 8's these days ? used to know a weird crazy coo0l macheinist that made PSU's (propeler speed reduction units) fr gm automatic trans missions for people who put mazda rotary engines in aircraft ! - any engine development will benefit ALL users of that engine don't forget ! neil
11-19-2016, 02:16 PM
#5792
Yes, don't.
The rotary beat me, I spent over $100K on the thing, had a stroke, sold it and all the parts that fit it.
I'm feeling better now and will design one for good old V8's like I should have done in the first place.
I did have some fun and met a lot of good people so all is not lost.
Except my money.
You're the best forum I've worked with by far.
The rotary beat me, I spent over $100K on the thing, had a stroke, sold it and all the parts that fit it.
I'm feeling better now and will design one for good old V8's like I should have done in the first place.
I did have some fun and met a lot of good people so all is not lost.
Except my money.
You're the best forum I've worked with by far.
11-25-2016, 05:04 PM
#5798
Administrator
iTrader: (7)
Richard: wow, I had no idea about the stroke and I'm sorry to hear that but I'm glad you're feeling better now.
Even though we never saw the AFSC fully developed, the contributions you made to this forum will never be forgotten.
That and the fact that the Short Shifter is the best mod many of us ever installed on our cars.
I still remember the day you invited a group of us down to the shop to all get our shifters installed.
aahhhhhh, the good 'ol days.
11-26-2016, 06:17 PM
#5799
Release the twins.
as the owner of the old yellow test bed rx8, i must say, the rx8 was the worst choice... but nobody knew that in 2004..
maybe the next rx9 with it coming factory forced induction would have a better chance... there again.. i've said over and over again superchargers have no place on a rotary.
maybe the next rx9 with it coming factory forced induction would have a better chance... there again.. i've said over and over again superchargers have no place on a rotary.
Last edited by lastphaseofthis; 11-26-2016 at 06:19 PM.
11-28-2016, 08:13 PM
#5800
Yes, don't.
The rotary beat me, I spent over $100K on the thing, had a stroke, sold it and all the parts that fit it.
I'm feeling better now and will design one for good old V8's like I should have done in the first place.
I did have some fun and met a lot of good people so all is not lost.
Except my money.
You're the best forum I've worked with by far.
The rotary beat me, I spent over $100K on the thing, had a stroke, sold it and all the parts that fit it.
I'm feeling better now and will design one for good old V8's like I should have done in the first place.
I did have some fun and met a lot of good people so all is not lost.
Except my money.
You're the best forum I've worked with by far.
beers
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