binnung

I have just installed my V1 with concealed display. I put the V1 to the right of the rear view mirror and the concealed display on the cig lighter adapter pluged into the cig lighter but cocked toward the driver. Has anyone had a problem with another car having a lazer jammer causeing false alerts? The reason I ask is you can turn off Lazer Detection on the V1 and I might want to do it on a long trip.
Thanks in advance for responses.

StealthTL

iTrader: (1)

Don't know for sure on your V1, but my Blinders don't interfere with my Bel 9 series.

S

truemagellen

hmmm...laser jammers emit immense amounts of light pulses at all times in all directions which saturates the light coming from a laser gun if it is being fired at your car. This creates so many light (laser) noise wavelengths that the laser gun cannot obtain a distance from the gun to the car. With no distance the equation of distance/time of light pulse cannot be computed and speed acquisition fails. This sounds great if you have a laser jammer but can reak serious havok on a radar/laser detector as it will give a false alarm. So if you want to avoid this, turn off your laser jamming feature...you can do this because by the time your V1 (or any other detector) detects the signal of an officers laser gun you are screwed anyway...I have a radar/laser detector and thought that HWY I94 (in wisconsin) was radar only (I have driven thousands of miles on that road and no ticket thanks to radar detection)...then one day I'm cruising along at 96mph and bam! my detector goes of the same time I see the trooper and then I'm pulled over and looking at a 30 day suspension (it is a 65mph limit and the speed I was going is instantly a wreckless driving charge). Fortunately I researched the technology and fought with the DA till it was a small fine and off my record in a year.

MORAL OF THE STORY...
-Now is the time to get a laser jammer...do not think you are safe anymore...thanks to Geico auto insurance who bankrolled the Lasertech laser gun, troopers and police units can afford laser you the only thing you can do is jam it or be pulled over (thank g-d it is legal to do so since light wavelengths are not governed like radar frequencies are).

ALSO INFO ON DETECTORS
For all of you who cannot afford the overpriced Valentine One's (V1)...if you know anything about movement of radio signals, especially radar, the V1's ability to pinpoint the location of a trooper/police radar gun is useless. Most of the time (especially at distances far away from the radar gun) the radar detector receives a radar signal after it has bounced off an object (other cars/trees/buildings, etc.) and so the reading on the V1 is innacurate...in otherwords, relying on this feature and be extremely deterimental as depending on the feature can distract you from the real location of the threat.
Some good news is that even the crappy radar detectors they sell at walmart/target will do a decent job of picking up the radar signal (although DO NOT GET ROCKY MOUNTAIN PRODUCTS). But, by purchasing the high price models such as the V1 or Escort 8500 you get less false alarms (depending on how much cash you have it is worth it for the price of the 8500, not the V1) and far better laser detection...which as I explained before is USELESS.
My conclusion on buying one is get an escort 8500 if you can afford it but if not look in the the middle to high range Bel detectors as they are also very good.

Laser Jammers...they do work and they do the job of detecting too, way better than the stand alone radar/laser detector does...but I don't know what is the best beside that the ZR3 (escort) is outstanding...actually we should start a post about laser jammers to accumulate knowledge on this subject--also maybe guides on how to install them ourselves for the RX-8.

V1 OWNERS AND FAN
So people don't get too mad about the knocking of the V1 it is still one of the top detectors but way overpriced, save your money for a laser jammer.

ROCKY MOUNTAIN FOLLOWERS
sell your device now! this thing not only does not work but the design of it actually makes it an amplified antenna for radar signals, increasing your risk of an radar assisted speed acquisition. Their claims of Radar jamming are IMPOSSIBLE by the laws of physics...jamming radar at even one frequency (radar guns are at many different frequences and of many differents types) requires an IMMENSE amount of power and a device that would fill up the entire interior of the RX-8 in size...maybe the trunk too. Plus jamming radar is a federal felony (forget about your driving record for a second). FINALLY...lets use some simple logic here...why would we dump billions of dollars into designing stealth fighter jets that evade radar if we could just jam radar with a tiny little box running on DC power?

bureau13

Are these laser jammers you refer to a new development? I remember when these things (or something similarly named) first came out they were a joke. Numerous tests proved this. However, if this is a new thing I'd be interested in hearing more about it.

As for the V1...I don't have one, but say what you will, when I DO buy a detector it will be that one, barring more unforeseen developments. I know too many people who have used them who swear by them.

jds

mqandil

The laser jammers are fairly new., and some do work with amazing results. You may be confusing these with radar jammers which were a joke, and still are. They are illegal, and don't work. As for laser jammers they always did, and they got much better recently. I got mine 7 yrs ago, and it probably saved me over dozen times. You would love the look on the cop face as you go past them at high speed, and they can not lock your speed. I was stopped twice, and was asked why they can not read my speed? I replied your gone is broken. Check bell or escort they both carry them.
Mark

binnung

Mark
Do you cause false alerts on lazer detectors in other cars?

mqandil

I am not sure if it does. Personally I do not think so. These jammers will not trigger unless they recieve a laser beam. When they do they will send their own modified beam back. In other words, they are inactive unless they detect a laser beam, so they should not trigger any false alarms. Probably when they are firing, laser detectors in cars near by will get a false signal, but again that means a cop is nearby, and that is a good thing. One more thing, other types of light beams such as Infra red like the beam from your TV remote will cause them to trigger, and probably causing laser detectors nearby to have a false signal. The new units are much more civilzed than the one I own. Mine puts such extremly high (intense) energy beam that will probably melt the lense of the officer gun if exposed for a long period of time. Therefore to avoid embarassing situation with the cope losing his gun, my unit will only trigger for 5 seconds. I have the option in these 5 seconds to slow down, or speed the hell up, and pass the cop. Typically they are set up and pointed in one direction and will not turn back to lock you from the back. Hope this helps.
Mark

Mark

binnung

Yep, thats what I needed to know. I thought they were on all the time. Thanks

truemagellen

THIS IS IMPORTANT...I'm sorry but you got the facts wrong...the ZR3 by escort and the LE are on all the time...not just when they detect laser! (probably others too or they wouldn't work)

The reason is...LIDAR/Laser guns can get a reading off any reflected surface of the car...that includes paint...well almost anything that isn't porous or non-glossy black (a light absorber)---so the laser jammer/shifter needs to be on all the time to send light noise all over the front and back of the vehicle...sometimes a laser jammer will be successfully jamming a laser gun and your detector and even the detector in the jammer will not recognize it because the laser must have a direct hit on the detectors...the jammers light noise spreads out a bit so a direct hit isn't necessarily needed

-good luck everyone...I just want to make sure you don't get tickets...just so you know in many small towns that are located on major highways there are many times 75% of the ENTIRE city revenue is from speeding violations. Also the auto insurance companies fight to keep the speed limits down to increase violations of speed limits and in turn rate increases for insurance premiums...like I said before Laser technology for speed acquisition was propogated by Geico insurance (those bastards with the gecko spokesanimal)...Lasertech was going under since speed acquisition with a laser at high velocity was and still is highly innacurate. The technology was originally designed to aid in docking on the international space station and then when lasertech was going under developing it Geico funded them till a half assed completion.

ALSO...MELTING THE LENSE...I hope the poster was kidding since it is virtually impossible to obtain enough power to wipe out a cop's laser gun...this is just DC power...come on! This is not the new laser missle defense system designed by Israeli. Melting the lense, ha, good laugh though.

Sputnik

There is more to it than that. Yes, there are radar reflections everywhere that the radar detector picks up. But everytime radar bounces, signal strength is decreased. The V1 not only detects radar in both antennaes, but it compares them to make sure that they are the same radar beam, and it compares signal strength. I can tell you from years of experience behind a V1, that it is much more accurate than you would first expect, whether you are out in the boonies, or in the city with all sorts of radar reflective surfaces. I have never had the arrows tell me that radar is behind me, when it was actually in front of me. The placement of the two antennaes is very very critical in the V1, and is the reason why they haven't released a remote version (where the installer installs the front and rear antennaes themselves). It won't be able to compare frequencies accurately.

Using any detector is like using a tool. It's not going to magically identify things for you, you have to know how to use it effectively. It won't always tell me exactly what's going on, and won't always give me a clear picture. You have to know the unit well enough to know what it is receiving, and how clearly pinpointed the radar signal can be.

Some examples of when the arrows of the V1 have been effective for me:

1) Driving down an unfamiliar road, and picking up weak radar in front of me. I slow and keep my eyes open. I see a store where there is obviously no trooper watching traffic, and I see the arrows go from the front, to the sides, to the rear, and then stop as I pass the building. Without the arrows, I wouldn't be able to tell whether it was a false from something on the side of the road, or if there was a trooper up ahead occasionally painting traffic. With the arrows, I was able to tell for absolutely sure that it was a false alarm from something on the side of the road, and I can continue without worry. This happens so often, that it was worth the extra price of the V1 alone.

2) Driving down a familiar road, and picking up weak radar at a normal false location. Using the signal count and arrows, I can confirm that the normal false source was the only source in the area. There have been occasions when this was not the case, and not only did the signal count increase, but the arrows confirmed it. Some false sources will produce more than one false signal, and when you pass one of these sources, the number of signals can sometimes change, so signal count alone does not always help in that situation.

3) I was travelling I-45 from Houston to Dallas on a sunny Monday with little traffic. An Escort flies past me doing 90 mph. Normally, I would give a car like that some lead, and follow him/her, but this one was acting too reckless, and 90+ mph in an obviously un-improved Escort is not something that I would want to do on a freeway. I still picked up my speed for a few minutes, knowing that he would be picked up by any trooper that he came across. Some ten minutes later, the V1 goes off, showing weak radar ahead. The strength slowly picked up, and a mile down the road, I saw the Escort had been pulled over by a pair of troopers. As I neared the troopers, the V1 alerted to a second radar signal ahead. After I passed the troopers, V1 still reported two radar signals, but the arrows showed both front AND rear, not just rear. If I had a radar detector that only showed signal count, I would have assumed that both radar signals were coming from the two troopers I had just passed.

So, I stayed at my "legal" pace, with a couple of cars stacking up behind me, obviously wondering why I hadn't sped up again, but not wanting to pass me quite yet. After a half-mile, the signal counter went to one, and the arrows were pointing ahead. Again, if I only had signal counters, I would have assumed that I was still picking up one of the troopers behind me. As we crested a hill, one of the cars decided that he had waited long enough, and pulled out to go around me. When he got into the fast lane, he saw the trooper under the bridge ahead of us, and pulled back in behind me. As I passed the third trooper, the arrows shifted to show his location, and the signal got weaker as I left him behind.

The arrows of the V1 do give you more information than a single antennae radar unit. Whether it's worth the extra cost is up to each person, but just because you don't think that it's worth the extra cost, doesn't mean that it's not effective. Mind you, they are NOT EFFECTIVE WITH METALLIC WINDOW TINT (which blocks and reflects radar signals), but otherwise, they work well. Like anything else, you have to know how to use your tools effectively.

---jps

binnung

Since there seems to be some disagreement I did some more searching on the net and found that the newer Jammers are on all the time which would cause false alerts in lazer detectors.
Links

http://www.usblinder.com/

http://www.beltronicspro.com/index.html

http://www.valentine1.com/

http://www.escortradar.com/

http://www.radar-detectors.com/default.asp

I am going to leave the Lazer Detector on for my trip just to see how many false alerts I get. It seems from what I read that the red tail lights from some cars may also cause false Lazer alerts.
Do you think we should start a poll with brand of detector and types of false alerts?

mqandil

guys
I can assure you mine which is (Lidatek LE10) and is not on all the time. I know the developer of the device, and I have an intimate knowledge of its operation. It actually has a reciever and will not fire unless it recieves a signal. Perhaps all the new ones are on all the time. I was speaking about mine which was introduced to the market in 1996. It was the first brand to reach the market. The new one Le-20 does not work very well. Again thanks for all the info

Mark

thew

There are no federal laws restricting the use of laser jammers. However, some states may regulate their use. The use of laser jammers is prohibited and/or restricted in California, Minnesota, Oklahoma and Utah. Check your local laws before using the laser "blocking" feature of the LaserPro™ 905.

thew

:0)

mqandil

The israeli I think would appreciate this little nifty device. Yes I was kidding to a degree. However, I do change my lense cover once a year as it does burn through. Honest. It does put out a higher power than most. Evertime I change a lense my buddies keep joking about me runining the cop gun, so now we say it all the time. Got you laughing though. Keep on smiling, and thanks for the info

Mark

Sputnik

Don't forget Virginia.

---jps

Baller

Jamming is a joke, I bought one to look at the inside electroics, a big joke. Save your money on the Jammer and buy a proper detector like the V-1.
Radar jammers are a bigger joke.
The expert that helped me was a Air Force electronic counter-measures designer. He says you can build one but it would take more power than a car could generate and would be cost prohibitive.

mqandil

Baller
The rader jammer is a joke, and is a scam, but the laser jamer does actually work. Please check the following link for actual testing http://www.radartest.com/article.asp?articleID=8502 .

I have been using mine for over 6 years, and I can assure you it saved me everytime from the laser gun. I have been stopped couple of times to be asked why not able to scan my speed. Please check out the link I included above. In addition, Car and driver and other car magazines are also have done similar testing. All of them will tell you that radar jamming is a joke, but laser jamming is real.

Mark

bureau13

The first alleged laser "jammers" I ever saw tested were some kind of LEDs that you were supposed to mount on the front of your car, and they were, in fact, a joke. There were indepedent tests that proved it. That is what I referred to earlier in the thread, and possibly what some of the other posters are thinking of. It sounds like the devices discussed here are different though.

jds

Sputnik

Some early "laser jammers" were half-assed attempts that weren't very effective. But there alot of effective laser jammers available on the market today.

"Passive radar jammers" are the type that are meant to reflect traffic radar back to a trooper in a way that jams the radar. They are completely legal in that they do not generate radar signals of their own, only reflect them. So far, units offered by companies like "Rocky Mountain Radar" have been completely inneffective, and some of those companies regularly change names to dodge all of the lawsuits.

"Active radar jammers" are the type that transmits radio waves to confuse the radar gun. With respect to Baller's Air Force friend, you can put together a very effective active radar jammer (some kits and ready-made units are available commercially) that will jam traffic radar units. You don't need to generate an incredible amount of power to give a traffic radar gun fits. I talked to a tech at a traffic radar gun producer, and he explained that it was actually possible to jam a radar gun with a much weaker signal using harmonics (along the lines of how "super-heterodyne" works), even to the point where a passive radar jammer was theoretically possible. But the weaker you go, the more you have to tune that signal for that particular radar unit and even environmental conditions, which is practically impossible in a mass produced $100 unit.

The thing about active radar jammers is that it will be pretty obvious to an experienced radar operator that he/she is being jammed. An active radar jammer won't magically make a radar traffic unit show "65 mph" when your car is doing 85 mph, it will normally cause the radar gun to get no speed, or a wildly incorrect one (like 20 mph or 150 mph for a car that is obviously not doing those speeds on a freeway).

Active radar jammers are also not allowed by federal laws. FCC governs radio waves, and you are only allowed to transmit certain frequencies up to certain power levels without a license. Cell phones and FRS walkie-talkies fall within those ranges, for example. If you transmit traffic radar frequencies above a certain power level, you are subject to a felony conviction, and a fine of up to $100k (among other things). Yes, law enforcement groups have to get a license from the FCC to operate radar traffic units. This law is intended for radio pirates and other ne'er-do-wells, so it's doubtful that someone with a traffic radar jammer will be hit with the max, but you can still get into some serious trouble for this, especially if some DA wants to show his constituents that he is protecting them from street-racer types. At that point, you kind of have to consider how much you want to risk to get out of a simple speeding ticket.

---jps

Baller

There are two basic forms of electronic warfare.

Electronic Countermeasures (ECM).
Electronic Counter Countermeasures (ECCM).
Both of these approach have become highly developed.

ECM methods can be broken up into two broad categories.

Noise Jamming. This attempts to mask an enemy's radar echo in heavy noise and degrade the radar's performance.
Deception jamming. This attempts to lead an enemy's radar into making erroneous measurement of parameters.
Again these categories can be broken down further into active and passive systems.

Active systems emit energy to accomplish their goals.

Passive systems emit nothing but instead reflect the enemy's radar to accomplish their goals.



Noise Jamming



Active Noise Jamming
Passive Noise Jamming




Noise degrades the performance of radar systems just as it does with communications systems.

It reduces the maximum range for detection, range and velocity calculation.

Noise jamming is a relative cheap and effective way of implemented ECM.



Active Noise Jamming.

This is the emission of some type of noise toward an enemy's radar.

Not always white noise is used.

The noise can be barrage, spot, sweeping or occasional.

The overall effect is to reduce the signal to noise ration of the enemy's radar system.



Passive Noise Jamming.

Where as active noise jamming emitted noise to reduce the SNR there are other ways of ever increasing N or decreasing S.

Some typical methods used in passive noise jamming are :

Chaff - thousands of dipole reflectors, pieces of aluminium, that are ejected from aircraft and ships. The reflectors are scattered by the wind and form clouds that reflect a sizeable amount of a radar's signal.

Shape of the target - Good design practices can dramatically reduce the target cross-sectional area which is directly proportional to the amount of the radar's signal that the target reflects.

Absorbing covering - Special paints and coatings are used to absorb any radiation from a radar and so reduce the amount that is reflected.

Interference Coatings - Coatings that are produced so that the reflections for the coating and the reflections for the metal of the target neutralise each other.

Scattering Coverings - Scatters the incident wave in many direction so as to direct a minimum amount of the transmitted energy back to the radar antenna.



Deception Jamming



Methods involving the distorting of the enemy's radar signals to mislead the enemy.

More sophisticated method then noise jamming.

Passive Deception Jamming

An example of passive deception jamming is:

The use of decoys - small drone aircraft, which can be made to appear larger than they are by use of corner reflectors.



Active Deception Jamming

Here the limits are endless in the permutations of countermeasures and counter countermeasures.

An example of active deception is:

False Targets - False targets are created by a jammer by transmitting a signal similar to the one transmitted by the enemy radar. The enemy radar mistakes this jamming signal for an echo for a signal it has transmitted. This method can be effectively used to disguise the number and the location of aircraft, ships etc.


EECM



The best way to reduce the effect of ECM on a radar system is to design :

receivers with high SNR.

good dynamic range - can vary operating frequency to get away from jamming.

good shielding of components.

antennas should have low sidelobes

good system to detect and ignore slow moving targets like chaff.


There are always ways of jamming a particular radar system if there is unlimited amount of money available, however in the radar used in law-enforcement there are so many kinds....K band X band Ka band, the list goes on and on. You would need a computer (powerful) to receive and then in micro-seconds process and then transmit the required signal back. In this scenario it must be super-fast (powerful) transmitter.
There have been cheap jammers made that always transmit, but only on one band.....and your radar detector would be beeping all the time.
Can it be done? sure, the US Air Force has them and on the B-2 it can not only fool the radar but can tell it is 500 miles away and there are 50 aircraft. Or the ultimate that they can't see you at all....stealth. The B-2 cost us almost 1 billion per aircraft....but it really is the ultimate in electronic countermeasures.

binnung

Tried IR remote for my Rec/amp and it gave false lazer alert. will let you know in 3 weeks how many I get on trip to Fl.

bureau13

I'll be starting work on a DIY RX-8 chaff system tomorrow! :-D

jds

Labop

Baller, good post. My job in the Navy is working with radars and jammers, from the collection side.

Though we don't call them ECM and ECCM any more (they now fall under Electronic Attack and Electronic Protect). They underwent a name change a couple of years back. Ya stole my post before I could comment!! Anyway, there are systems on the market available from Marconi, $300,000 a pop. Most of it would fit in the trunk, but the dish is directional and would be about the size of the passenger compartment. Can anyone else picture an RX-8 driving down the road with a large AWACS style radome above it? ROFL

Baller

I want one