RX8J

Hey everyone,

Maybe you guys can help me out. Let me start by saying I am 36 years old, and when I was a kid (just kidding)....

I am looking to upgrade the sound system in my 8. I have been to a couple of stores and read lots of helpful posts here, but I still have a couple issues.

I am looking to add some nice low end and some better highs as well. (I can take care of the highs myself) When I go to a store to hear their suggestions, they are steering me towards a sub woofer for the low end. What I hear from these (usually 10" sub) is very loose boomy sub bass. While this is fine for some, I dont really listen to rap (much) and I am not looking to rattle the windows. I am looking for hard hitting punchy tight bass. Is there such an animal out there? In the house I have a nice speaker system with a woofer (no separate sub) a mid, and a tweeter. This gives me tight kick drums that snap, etc (It's hard to describe sound on a forum). I am looking for this same experience (or a close one) to what I can get out of a home speaker. In other words, I dont want booooommmm, I want BOOM!

What is it that I am looking for?? (if this can be answered).

Thanks for the help!
-RX8J

Architech

What you could do is buy a nice pair of aftermarket 6x9's drop 'em in, and amp em out, you won't get low end bass, and the kicks should be on point! Or, if you don't want "competition" type bass, but still want the low ends, you could mount an 8" sub in the rear deck, as I did!

I'll post pics as soon as my film is developed! This will only work for those without the Bose equipped, because of where I mounted the sub!

The place I mounted the sub, is in the same spot that the Bose equipped models have an amp! I swear it lookes factory, until scrutinous inspection!

DreRX8

I plan on adding an 8" sub to even out my bass. I am interested in your mounting Architech--I had planed on a custom box that fit into the corner up against the seats--but it sounds as though yours is even less-space consuming. I don't want to put a sub in the pass through like alot of folks are doing.

Sputnik

How sharp and clear the bass is depends greatly on how the enclosure is designed. Alot of these "boom" systems are designed with ported and bandpass enclosures in such a way to produce more volume than sound quality.

But for what it sounds like you want, you can get it with good 10 and 8 inch subs in a sealed enclosure. The sealed enclosure will be able to cover the frequency range more consistently, it will be able to blend in with your midranges better, offering better midbass (that alot of boom systems lack) and provide that clear sound you are looking for. If you've explained what you are looking for to people at those car stereo stores, and they haven't been able to show you something along the lines of what you want, move on. There should be some good stores that know what you want, and can help design something to match a person's listening tastes.

---jps

RX8J

So it sounds like my problem is that I need to look at sealed enclosures instead of the ported ones. That would make sense to me. I have some money coming in from a side job soon and I want to put some of it into the audio system.

I already installed a PIE solution and an XM Commander via the PIE AUX IN. I am about to order the parts needed for building an input switcher so I can add a portable MP3 player. Once all of this is there, I want to improve the sound overall. So if I read correctly, I should be looking for a 10" sub woofer in a sealed enclosure. I will also add an amp of course.

One more question...

I have seen subs mounted in custom enclosures in the passthrough. Would this give me what I am looking for (the trunk being the sealed enclosure)? Or will this be too loose?? I would probably only put an 8" in the passthrough, but maybe a 10" is what I need.

Getting closer to an answer... at least I will know what to ask for when I shop.

Does anyone know of a good audio place in south Florida? Maybe one with enclosure experience with an RX8?

-RX8J

snowrydr01

the sub in the passthrough could be either way. if it is a conventional sub you would have to fab and enclosure. if its a "free air" sub it in affect uses the entire trunk as its enclosure. another suggestion i would have is if you are just looking for realy tight bass look into a high end 3 way component (bass driver, mid, and tweeter) and just fab up the mount for the area where your rear speakers are currently, however you would have to amp this system the stock couldnt push it hard enough

Sputnik

Yes, I think that a sealed box would be best in your case.

All of the pass-through sub enclosures that we've seen on this forum have been sealed boxes (although there might be different setups shown elsewhere on the Internet). None of them have used the trunk as the enclosure.

Along the lines of what snowrydr01 said, the trunk will not work as a sealed enclosure. It is much much too large to work like that, it is not sealed enough to work like that, and the walls are to flimsy to provide necessary support. Some people do successfully use free-air (or infinite baffle) subs in that kind of situation. The trunk doesn't really act as an enclosure in those cases, it just separates the air spaces in front of and behind the subs, which is important for a free-air setup. They are inexpensive, and normally easy to install, but they cannot handle much power, are generally pretty "loose", and a sealed enclosure will offer much stronger and sharper bass impact than a free-air installation. So for what you want, I think you should avoid a free-air setup.

Sometimes, the available space (volume or shape) might dictate that you use a pair of 8s instead of a single 10. Personally, I normally prefer the kind of bass that you are describing. In my experience, I've found that a single 10 works better than a pair of 8s (all things being equal), but I've had to go with a pair of 8s instead in some situations due to the space available (like in my Miata), and it has been fine. And an enclosure in the trunk will not give me the kind of sound and impact that I want. But that differs from person to person, which is why a car company can't put together a high-end sound system that will appeal to most of it's buyers. There really isn't such a system.

---jps

RX8J

Sputnik,

It sounds like you and I have the same taste in sound! You just mentioned that to get the type of sound you are looking for, a box in the trunk is not an option. Is that because by the time the sound gets to the cabin of the car, it is no longer tight (as it is not moving sound pressure directly)? I think the back deck or the passthough is going to be best option for the sound I am looking for.

snowrydr01,
You mentioned a high end 3 way component. Is this a 6x9 or are you talking about or separates I would have to mount in the back deck somehow?

-RX8J

snowrydr01

for the record i didnt offer the trunk as an inclosure for a sealed sub sputnik, i said thats how a "free air sub works" wich it does. and if your gonna say im wrong about something dont agree with it two seconds later with "The trunk doesn't really act as an enclosure in those cases, it just separates the air spaces in front of and behind the subs" so what your saying is by definition your trunk isnt an enclosure? is its a large CLOSED in area? that sounds alot like an elnclosure to me its not a hatchback. anything thats seperates the positive and negative waves of a speaker and is CLOSED on the negative area is by definition an inclosure. Not trying to be a dick but i thats what a trunk is, a seperate enclosure

to answer your question about the 3way component its not a 6x9 its 3 individual speakers, same as components just with a full bass driver added on and a more advanced crossover http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAu...roductID=12972

RX8J

I understand the separates now, thanks! But does a tweeter do much good in the back deck? I would think to replace the ones in the door with those (or is that what you meant)?? As high frequencies are unidirectional, I would think the back deck would be a bad placement for optimal sound.

On a better note, I really like the idea of separates in the back deck. I wonder if it would sound better or worse than a nice enclosure in the passthrough, or in the trunk. The latter being the worst of the three options for the sound I crave.

-RX8J

snowrydr01

well the speakers in the back deck actually rebound off the rear glass. also a nice set of crisp components in the front would be recomended and even more so if you get a set with rotating tweeter so you can aim it at the center of the car or fiberglass yourself some new tweeter mounts

Preacher

I put Eclipse 6" rounds in the doors and Rockford-Fosgate 3-way 6x9 ovals in the back....
A BIG improvement in the 25w paper pieces of FordAudio 25watt ***** that the non-Bose comes with (not that the Bose sys isn't junk,I know it is-)
Next,a minimal-space-taking cab with one (or a pair) of 10s and about 400w of nice clean ampage....

Onward to the next invoice!

thew

buy some nice 6*9 first.. start slow. if you need more then add a sub to the trunk. and so on.. personally my bose system had to much bass untill i added my KEnwood adjustable tweeters .. now its great. !!

Sputnik

Yes, by the time the sound gets through things like the rear seats, parcel shelf, etc., the sound is affected by those items. The sound is normally muted across the frequency range compared to if the subs were in the cabin with you, and more importantly for listeners like you and I, that impact is "softened" and "dulled". You can still get "boom" out of the trunk, but the clarity suffers, especially in the frequencies where the subs blend with the midranges.

Like we've said before, if you're putting together a system with 1000s of watts, you don't have much choice but to put subs in the trunk. But if something like a single ten or pair of eights will work for your system, it makes a big difference having them in the cabin as opposed to in the trunk.

---jps

Sputnik

I wasn't saying you were wrong. When I said "Along the lines of what snowrydr01 said", I meant to be as "Along the vein of what snowrydr01 said" or "In addition to what snowrydr01 said". I know you didn't mean to refer to the trunk as an enclosure. I'm sorry if that wasn't clear.
Like you were saying, a trunk does work as an effective baffle (as long as you don't have other "holes" between the trunk and cabin), which separates the positive and negative waves of a speaker, and which is the key in "infinite baffle" speakers.

But it doesn't work as sub enclosure. A sub enclosure is not intended just to separate the positive and negative waves of the speaker (although it does do that). The air inside of the enclosure acts as a spring, which helps support the subwoofer, and smooth out it's movement. The smaller the enclosure, the "stiffer" it is, and you have to get that size right for the sub to work the way you want. You also need to have that enclosure completely airtight, in the case of a ported enclosure the port has to have the right length and diameter, and the walls need to be very stiff. A trunk will not work effectively as an enclosure, because the walls are not stiff enough, it is way too large, and it is not airtight.

So, again, it might be some confusion as to what I was referring to.

---jps

RX8J

If I go with separates in the back deck, I notice that the separates are not a stereo pair. Can I assume that they have to be powered by a bridged amplifier? I know that you dont get stereo from most bass frequencies, but the mid and the tweeter certainly do. The only thing I can think of is a bridged amp... Is this correct?

-RX8J