sa22rally

Hi Guys im building a series 1 rallycar here in Denmark. For starters the car will have a 4 port engine because thats most common in denmark. But i would really like to ditch all the sensors and stuff.
Basicly i just want the ecu to control ignitons, injectors and Throttlebody. in my class im not allowed to change the manifold but i dont need to run all the other stuff.

Is there any ecu that will give me that?

Best regards Rasmus

lastphaseofthis

you cannot ditch all the sensors, and expect the same performance. it will suck if it runs at all.

what you should want is a standalone, and MORE sensors. MORE control, MORE options.

sa22rally

sorry i didnt see your answer before today. I have researched alot since i made the Thread i have boiled it dowm to this:

Halltech elite 550.
Converting to manual throttle body.
then i only need these sensors.
TPS
Crank shaft sensor
Coolant temp.
WIDEBAND

Keep in mind its a 4 port engine

Loki

iTrader: (1)

.. Isn't that all the sensors there are? What are you getting rid of exactly? The downstream O2 and the knock sensor, lol? And the MAF?! You really need the MAF :/

Feel free to ignore this, but I don't see the upside here. You're going to spend money and do all this work, including tuning timing, fuel and the various intake valves, only to get back AT BEST stock performance and stability of a 4-port. Whhhhy?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

What features will you use on the Haltec ,that you can't do with stock ECU ?

sa22rally

Im lokking to get rid of alle the air pumps ssv valves etc. and not to mention all the vacume hoses. everything that is not necessary. i have pulled over 55 kg of wiring and computers from the car all the new stuff will probably weigh about 15 kg so if the total cost of the ecu and tune will be around 2000 dollars minus what i wpuld have to pay to get a accesport overall i have saved 40 kg for about 1000 dollars thats not to bad in our heavy cars.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

... but you realize the intake valves are there to manage the power curve. Without them (or with them permanently closed) you're cutting out a large chunk of power. And suppose you could rig them to permanently open, you'd have trouble holding idle or making low-mid-range power, which I imagine you need in rally. So... think this over, you're saving 40kg by losing 40hp.

You can let the air pump go, that's fine. Just remove it.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

This seemed like a fine idea until I realized that you weren't swapping the engine into a different car.

This is allot of work and allot of money for not allot of weight savings and a significant reduction in power on a low output version of a pretty slow car.

sa22rally

remember its a 4 port engine it dosnt have the whole secondary port controls.

i dont believe thats true but i might be wrong i´ve tried that once before haha
To make long storry even longer and its not because i dont want to listen to you guys but .
1 I do belive the stock systems are way to advanced and self learning to be a rallycar and i have a very bad feeling avout how the stock ECU will react when removin ESP AND ABS.

2 the many many sensor and valves etc in this engine is a big possibility of something failing.

3 Im a mechanic and everyday i se cars with parts and engine failing because of emmission and consumption figures that is unrelistic. I dont belive this engine would be so fragile if it wasnt for the engine management being built to cope with theese to things.

4 i have a turbo 2 streetported 4 port engine made running NA with 9,4 rotors and a 48 mm ida and that thing is making 200 whp and 200 NM on the wheels so i just don believe that the renesis shouldnt be able to make more than that. my carbed engine dosnt have any ssv valve ore anything like that.

I could be wrong but my theory is that the 4 port low power with 6 speed and a aftemarcet ecu will be much faster and better for rally because of the lower rpm range than the 231 will ever be.
I agree the 231 was born to make more power but in a much more difficult way especially in racing conditions. But i still believe and hoep the 4 port will produce more torque


I hope my english is good enough so you guys can understand

sa22rally

You guys should also understand that this car with all the prepping is costing me about 25000 dollars these car are very expensive here in Denmark. The price you guys a paying for a mint condition Highpower car will buy me a 2003 Toyota Yaris with dents and a flat tire here in Denmark

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

About the only thing I would agree with in your post#9 is the issues you may have with the ABS . Why don't you disconnect it and see what happens ?

Apart from that , your reasoning seems misguided .
I agree that disabling the SSV (and holding it open) would be a good idea in your case because you wont operate much below 3500rpm much , and that valve can be troublesome.
The VDI should be retained though ,as deleting it loses power right where you want it - moreso on a 4 port.

I fail to see where you can get 40kg weight savings when you remove the ECU but maybe I'm missing something .

sa22rally

hi again everybody just thought I would share my findings. Let me start by saying a was mostly wrong and I will get dynoresults to prove it. The ssv valve is not that important but makes is easier to not ruin the plugs. The ssv valve and the vdi is a performance part and not emissions parts. So basically I build it like I wanted to I got the weight savings from ditching all the stock wiring and all he ecu'a controlling everything in the car. But without the ssv and vdi valves nothing happens the engine made 145 flywheel hp and was just dead above 6200 rpm. Now I have fitted the valves again and used the shift light function on the halltech to control them. This works awesome the ssv valve need to be tuned on a dunk so I'm leaving that out while my tuner is in vacation. However the vdi valve works by just adding a bit of base fuel above 5750 rpm and. Now the engine revs and pulls all the way to 8000 rpm. Which means I'm now shifting gear right in to the top of the torque curve.

So in short terms I haven't been able to find a standalone ecu that would be able to control the aux ports on a 6 port and with the 6 speed gearbox and a 5,8 rear ratio it really is a fast car.
i was able to get the car down to 2750 lbs with a huge rollcage. I would like to loose another 200 but I'm not allowed to do anymore weight savings.