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Old 06-03-2010, 09:08 AM   #1
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Haltech Platinum Sports now with RX-8 Support!!

Well its here, we're in the beta stages of the new ECU Manager 1.08 software and Renesis trigger support has been finally added to the mix!

The Sport ECUs allow for far more control over the whole engine operation under all conditions. Control of the different solenoids for the auxiliary intake port butterfiles, AND preliminary tests have also been done controlling the Auxiliary Ports on the engine!

I already have diagrams available for the installation in parallel with the stock ECU, and the guys at Mazdatrix have been controlling their RX-8 race car with a Sprint RE unit. They were experiencing some issues, but it was all corrected and the car runs great now.

The Sport 1000 and 2000 will now be able to give the user a full stand alone ECU to take full control over the engine's parameters.

Here's a little preview just to wet the lips. Expect full product release within the next couple of weeks!
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Haltech Platinum Sports now with RX-8 Support!!-ecu_manager_1.08_rx-8_supported.png  
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Old 06-03-2010, 11:57 PM   #2
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Hey guys, i wanted to share this wiring schematic for the Sport ECU installation to the Renesis engine in the RX-8.

If anybody has any question please dont hesitate to ask.
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File Type: pdf Mazda_RX8_Sport_WITH Apv Wiring.pdf (402.2 KB, 559 views)
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:24 AM   #3
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Looks good...does the Haltech affect the resistance from the temp sensors? When I wired mine like that I had problems with the stock ECU seeing the wrong temps...caused all kinds of strange fan and other stock ECU glitches

Will be interested in the Haltech settings for the logic part of the APV control
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Old 06-04-2010, 01:54 AM   #4
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So, you guys are just "ganging" the P2 and secondary injectors together?
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Old 06-04-2010, 02:04 AM   #5
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One of my least favorite things....can only handle one stage of injectors

Could wire them to a relay and turn the power on separately..but still not great
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobre
Looks good...does the Haltech affect the resistance from the temp sensors? When I wired mine like that I had problems with the stock ECU seeing the wrong temps...caused all kinds of strange fan and other stock ECU glitches.
When ever you use 2 ECU's on 1 sensor, one of them needs to have its pull up voltage resistor disabled, the Haltechs have this option in the TEMP sensor calibration windows. No biggie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazdamaniac
So, you guys are just "ganging" the P2 and secondary injectors together?
Yeah, there is only a 1 stage strategy in the ECU, i dont know of any other ECU right now (within this price range) that will have more than 1 stage. But like dannobre said you can wire up one of those stages in parallel to the primary and put a relay to turn it on based on what ever you like, load vs rpm, rpm only, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobre
Will be interested in the Haltech settings for the logic part of the APV control
I will have a base map to show within the next couple of weeks that will have all that.
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Old 06-04-2010, 05:38 PM   #7
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Will Haltech offer a plug and play harness? Otherwise Boomslang sells an extension harness for $169 shipped if you don't want to cut the factory harness.

Also, the Sport Haltech cannot command the electronic throttle? Also does this support separate asynchronous (batch fired) tip-in fuel like the factory PCM?
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Old 06-04-2010, 07:30 PM   #8
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if u run Haltech Platinum would u still have to run with the maf sensor
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:53 PM   #9
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The "accelerator pump" function works quite well...it allows adjustling both syncronous and assynchronus pulses based on a number of variables...

The DBW thing would be nice..but tends to be in ECU's at about 2X the pricepoint or higher

I would love a way to stage the injectors without resorting to a relay......failure would be catastrophic with the area the fuel would be added into

I'll be happy with a rock solid trigger
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:29 PM   #10
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Plug-and-Play patch loom is only available for FC3S Rx-7. I am downloading the new software for the Platinum models. I have the old Halwin for the E6X.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:49 AM   #11
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Cut here, splice there, insulate this... What for?
Adaptronic and MicroTech both offer a true plug and play EMS for the RX8. Though the Adaptronic unit is not perfect either (P1 & P2 are batched together), when used in conjunction with an AP you can control EVERYTHING (fuel, ign,intake solenoids/valves,OMP,fans,etc.etc.) without cutting, splicing, insulating anything.

Anyways, just food for thought, this unit should be released as a true plug and play IMO to compete with the AP and/or Adaptronic unit, or even better, be released with 6 injector drivers to give it the edge over the Adaptronic at least.

(pictured below: Adaptronic e420c Plug and Play EMS for the RX8)
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-05-2010, 08:30 AM   #12
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I like the software for the Sport models. It looks like a .net application. It's much prettier than the old Halwin software and has a more modern interface. The asynchronous tip-in option is nice. AEM EMS can't do that (although AEM is not currently viable on an Rx-8).

I'm still not a fan of MAP-based injector staging though.
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Old 06-05-2010, 10:58 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
I'm still not a fan of MAP-based injector staging though.

As opposed to what?

MAP/ Load....same snizzle really
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Old 06-05-2010, 11:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7 View Post
Will Haltech offer a plug and play harness? Otherwise Boomslang sells an extension harness for $169 shipped if you don't want to cut the factory harness.

Also, the Sport Haltech cannot command the electronic throttle? Also does this support separate asynchronous (batch fired) tip-in fuel like the factory PCM?
Yeah, as you state, boomslang has that harness, we've used them in the past for a few development projects they are nice pieces, we could have a plug in application already done up, its just a question of how many units can be sold if we had that, over a universal do it your self installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sauceyI986
if u run Haltech Platinum would u still have to run with the maf sensor
Yes, all factory sensor must be retained, the reason for this is because the stock ECU needs to be happy so it doesnt go closing the throttle body on you or freak out in any way. Or maybe reflashing the ECU removing some of the warnings and limiters would let you delete the MAF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannobre
The "accelerator pump" function works quite well...it allows adjustling both syncronous and assynchronus pulses based on a number of variables...

The DBW thing would be nice..but tends to be in ECU's at about 2X the pricepoint or higher

I would love a way to stage the injectors without resorting to a relay......failure would be catastrophic with the area the fuel would be added into

I'll be happy with a rock solid trigger
Yes dannobre, the transient throttle control on these new units works wonderfully well, it took me a little to get the concepts of it all, but now i wouldnt even want to go back to the old stuff.

As for the trigger stuff, right now everything seems to be working quite well, and the new trigger conditioning options (voltage threshold) and improved filtering let you fine tune the whole thing much better than before.

From what i can gather on the staged injector ganging up, it shouldnt be too much of a problem, as long as the rest of the auxiliary ports get opened along with their corresponding injector counterparts.

I have an idea about controlling one of the stages separate from the main table, not having to double up on injectors per output, i will look into it and report back on that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rg1977
Cut here, splice there, insulate this... What for?
Adaptronic and MicroTech both offer a true plug and play EMS for the RX8. Though the Adaptronic unit is not perfect either (P1 & P2 are batched together), when used in conjunction with an AP you can control EVERYTHING (fuel, ign,intake solenoids/valves,OMP,fans,etc.etc.) without cutting, splicing, insulating anything.

Anyways, just food for thought, this unit should be released as a true plug and play IMO to compete with the AP and/or Adaptronic unit, or even better, be released with 6 injector drivers to give it the edge over the Adaptronic at least.
Hmmm, Adaptronic eh, is that a megasquirt by any chance? Anyway, we can control all you've just mentioned, we're just now in the processes of developing the application properly, so as to be able to offer it in a nice enough package, and with as much options and control as possible. There will be people who will want a fully terminated option, there are other who like to tinker and build their own stuff, right now we will have the option for you to install the Haltech onto the car using a boomslang harness, as you can see we already have the diagrams available to do it.

As work on cars moves along we'll have more updates and options to incorporate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arghx7
I'm still not a fan of MAP-based injector staging though.
Well how do you propose to stage the injectors? Using RPM or Throttle? Load is still the best option, or a combination of all of them.

Thanks guys for all the feedback, its greatly appreciated, i hope we can get some systems out there for the RX8 community soon!

Keep it coming!
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Claudio RX-7 View Post
Well how do you propose to stage the injectors? Using RPM or Throttle? Load is still the best option, or a combination of all of them.

Thanks guys for all the feedback, its greatly appreciated, i hope we can get some systems out there for the RX8 community soon!

Keep it coming!
Duty cycle but then the Haltech would need injector sizing logic to properly reduce injector ontime while bringing the next injector online as well.

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Old 06-06-2010, 12:10 AM   #16
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Duty cycle but then the Haltech would need injector sizing logic to properly reduce injector ontime while bringing the next injector online as well.

thewird


Duty cycle based on what engine parameters......
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
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(although AEM is not currently viable on an Rx-8).
Yes it is.

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Duty cycle based on what engine parameters......
Uh, based on duty cycle?
That would be the best way.
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Old 06-06-2010, 09:55 AM   #18
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Why? Duty cycle is directly related to Pulsewidth.....both are related to some type of load measurement that the ECU uses to determine fueling

Is there some reason it would be easier to stage with duty cycle? Other than needing to make sure you stay in a proper range for the injector to function properly??
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Old 06-06-2010, 01:32 PM   #19
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Duty cycle IS pulse-width.

When the P1 got to 85%, I want to see the PCM to start lowering the PW of them and start bringing the P2/SEC on at the same slope.
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Old 06-06-2010, 10:16 PM   #20
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That is much less of a problem on anything but the stock ECU
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Duty cycle but then the Haltech would need injector sizing logic to properly reduce injector ontime while bringing the next injector online as well.

thewird
Exactly, something like this:

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 06-06-2010, 11:47 PM   #22
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^ that's not duty cycle

and there are no latency corrections for the different injectors.....
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Old 06-07-2010, 12:35 AM   #23
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^ that's not duty cycle
right, obviously an RPM variable is necessary for duty cycle, but that wasn't the point of my reply.
this was, "but then the Haltech would need injector sizing logic to properly reduce injector ontime while bringing the next injector online as well"
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Old 06-07-2010, 09:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MazdaManiac View Post
Duty cycle IS pulse-width.

When the P1 got to 85%, I want to see the PCM to start lowering the PW of them and start bringing the P2/SEC on at the same slope.
Ok, a couple of things, Duty Cycle is a function of time, time available to open up the injectors and put fuel in the motor, as RPMs go up, that time is reduced so Duty Cycle goes up. As time to open the injectors gets smaller and smaller you have less chance to inject fuel properly into the motor thus running into lean conditions.

Now, about your comment MM, the Haltech does have this option available in the software, to be able to reduce the pulsewidth of the primary injectors and start pulsing the secondaries with a specific value (in mS) to compensate for latency, this mode is called Primary Hold mode.

Also, on injector latency, there is an injector dead time table available to correct for this, but alas, its only one table for the whole thing, cant do individual injector dead time tables (yet.. :D).

Later on there will be VE tuning available in rotary/staged mode, but for the time being we have injector pulsewidth tuning.
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:57 PM   #25
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Does the stock computer still control the OMP or does the Haltech do it yet?

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