WreakLoosE

Does the Cobb access port = Throttle controller?

I would guess so by changing the values on Access Tuner Race
Throttle file.
Duty Cycle A,B,C, D and Max Duty Cycle..

anybody know how to adjust this if this is the route one needs to take to adjust Throttle Response.. and remove lag from throttle input..

For instance.. I was looking at my data logs and I have two Log collums that relate to Throttle.

Accel. Pedal Pos. (%) at 14.04% and Throttle Possition (%) at 6.63%

Is there a way to make them more in line with each other like a Throttle controller would I assume or am I sniffing the wrong butt hole on this one?

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Yes - I have played around with those maps quite a bit . You have to make much bigger changes that you would think to get the desired effect .

The different maps relate to which gear you are in and the last one is for free revving .

1.3_LittersOfFurry

iTrader: (4)

So you would want to change your max duty cycle to 100%, then adjust A/B/C/D? (How do we find out what those are?)

Always wondered this... Why is it limited to 84%(OEM map)? Is it that when stock, the engine can only ingest X amount of air which is equal to the throttle being open at 84%?

WreakLoosE

Humm... I see.. I was looking at the claims made by PedalBox by DTE Systems GmbH - Distributed in North America by TWM Performance the say that they increase the throttle curve by 20% or 65% Im wondering if those numbers sound reasonable.

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

A= 1-2
B= 3-4
C= 5-6
D= free revving
Don't take that as gospel but that is how mine worked out . It is very easy to devise an experiment to verify which map does what . Just make a huge change to each map one at a time then go for a drive to see which gear that map affects.
Same goes for fuel tables BTW . Don't assume Cobb labelled those correctly either !

84% is just a number that happens to mean 100% . There are four or five different ways to measure throttle/accelerator % and they all have a different number as a max. % .

WreakLoosE

Ok so im gonna give this a try...

Im going to start out with

A and increasing this map 20% in each cell.

if that is ok I will go on to B. then C and then D.
I have also just put The Max Duty Cycle to 100

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

20 % you will not even notice a difference - try something like full throttle (84%) at 25% pedal onwards . That will do something you actually notice and confirm the gears. You can then go backwards from there till you get the feel you want

Don't do that . Can't say what will happen but it wont be good .

WreakLoosE

Yep didnt notice much.. But I changed the Throttle Max Duty Cycle back to 84 to be on the safe side... I also went from

25% Pedal from 500 RPM - 9000 RPM set cells to 83.95 so we will see what This does..

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

THAT you will notice .

1.3_LittersOfFurry

iTrader: (4)

Can't that be slightly dangerous? Oh wait no TQ...

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Correct . LOL not dangerous unless you plan on doing some parallel parking while tuning your throttle maps .....................................

WreakLoosE

Ok.. I did this... it was a HUGE change in Throttle Response... But I started getting P0601 Cel.. So I remapped it back and all is good... I can see what you are saying.. Now its just figuring out good ranges that work for me.. But Yes it was a nice feel.. it would be kinda jerky on some spots in the rpm rage but it was very nice.. Just gotta figure how to smooth it all out.

1.3_LittersOfFurry

iTrader: (4)

When my hard hot starts start happening I'll mess around with the max duty and report my findings. Shouldn't be much longer, engine already idles at 50%load with nothing on. She'll be my first rotary to die on me.

WreakLoosE

Ok.. So i went back down.. I went 20% across the board again on A,B,C,D I felt a little bit but nothing to dance about. I also played with the Throttle Max Duty Cycle I didnt see anything crazy happen at all??? But I was curious. about the A,B,C,and D tables..

I am thinking
A=Gears 1-2
B=Gears 3-4
C=Gears 5-6

But rather than free rev...for table D.. shouldn't D= Reverse??
I looked at the Help file for the Tuner Race and it says:

Max Duty Cycle
Table description – This singular value is the maximum throttle duty cycle that the ECU will allow.
Precautions and Warnings
None at this time.

But here is the description on Tables A,B,C,D..

Duty Cycle A
Duty Cycle B
Duty Cycle C
Duty Cycle D
Table description – These tables define the throttle duty cycles indicated under four separate conditions (A, B, C, & D) as a function of engine speed and accelerator pedal position (APP) sensor.
Tuning Tips – The requested torque values indicated how much or little to open the throttle. The requested torque is a function of throttle position in parallel tables “throttle requested torque A, B, C” . These tables can be altered together to adjust the sensitivity of throttle position to produce a response in engine power.
Precautions and Warnings
None at this time.

They talk about a parallel table the: throttle requested torque A, B, C what the hell is that? are those the values in the cell? Because i thought that was the throttle body opening percentage...

blu3dragon

iTrader: (1)

^that description does not sound at all helpful. Actually I would just ignore it completely.

Regarding what conditions A, B, C, D are, another way to find out is to set the max to something below 84%, then log what happens when you press the pedal all the way down. You could set it to 50% and probably still have most of the engine tq available at lower rpm. So, A max: 50, B max: 60, C max:70, D can stay at 84... Actually I might go do this myself. The only thing is, is there any reason to have a different throttle response under different conditions? I can't think of any reason I would want that. (BTW, using mazdaEdit on an s2 I actually have 12 throttle maps, perhaps gears, ac on/off, alternator load?)

As an aside, I think any explanation that changing this reduces lag registers at least an amber alert on the B.S. meter. What you are actually doing is changing the sensitivity of the pedal, you're not doing anything about lag unless you count the time it takes you to move your foot. Increasing pedal sensitivity can make the car feel faster, since it will produce more power at part throttle, but it won't actually be any faster, since full throttle is still full throttle. Drive around for 10 minutes and you will just compensate by moving your foot less.

I actually want to tune this the other way to get a more linear response from the pedal and therefore more control at part throttle. IMO Mazda has it set up from the factory to be over-sensitive at lower rpm.

WreakLoosE

Have you had a chance to test this out yet.. Any clearer understanding of the tables?

Rote8

84 degrees of rotation at the throttle plate.

oltmann

As far as determination of which map is being used, I think that Brettus is pretty much right on. It just has to do with what gear you're in and position of the neutral safety switch. This is in contrast to the OL fuel enrichment maps where the determination is way more complicated.

However, I think there is a bit more to the determination of the desired throttle angle.

After determining a desired throttle position, that along with RPM is used to lookup a value from this table:


I'll call this number the requested torque. Based on that and RPM, a lookup is then done on this table:


The output of that is eventually set to the desired throttle angle, but there are still other corrections that I don't really understand...

Anyhow, point is that I suspect that trying to get a 1:1 correspondence between the "throttle tables" and an actual logged value is futile.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I never did find a huge performance difference in anything I did with the throttle

You can change the way it feels...but it doesn't change the performance for the positive in any way that I found

Best throttle change I made for track driving was to get rid of the DBW throttle altogether

TeamRX8

iTrader: (25)

I just made the percentages more linear across the map from min - max My car never bucks at low rpm or some of the weird crap that it used to do a long time ago on the OE map. I never logged or analyzed what it was ever actually doing though.

If there was a way to get rid of the DBW throttle without doing a full aftermarket ECU conversion I'd be all over it ....

1.3_LittersOfFurry

iTrader: (4)

Care to share the map?

logalinipoo

Ok I've got a 2005 USDM. And found the Same results.
A=1-2 and reverse gear
B=3-4Th
C=5-6Th
D=Free reving

The throttle plate opening does not change when the settings are raised above 83.95.

Now I've made a couple of changes.
Notice the bottom right corner I've done this on all of my gear maps. It cuts power right at 8750RPM and with a little pressure on the shifter It pops right out of gear.



With your foot still on the floor In the free rev map the throttle plate closes and the engine will loose rpms. Until about 6500. Where it opens up again. So the car is pretty much rev matching for me. It will take a little playing and fine tuning for the desired RPM and throttle opening.


The Next thing up to try is this. Everything below these three is stock. So when you start the car it will idle fine. When in first or second gear and you rev it up above 6000 then release the throttle it will Hang the throttle open. For a good launch at the same RPM every time.

This could be a little dangerous. In first or second if You're engine braking It could stick, but neutral and all the other gears will be safe.

oltmann

I know that Subaru closes the throttle just before redline, though it is implemented differently.



If you wanted to replicate what they did, you might try setting the second-to-last RPM column to 8950, and for the 9000 column lower the values of the requested duty cycle to 25 or less for all values of accel. position.

I think that there is also a table of minimum values based on RPM, but it doesn't match my logs and I'm not sure why.

WreakLoosE

Yea My Subie MY06 map for this is different.. I have tried to look at that to make any sense of it comparing it to my RX8
but I was lost on that too.. Too different to draw any conclusions to understand for myself. ;(