Ap Logs dont look right
06-25-2011, 06:39 PM
#1
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Ap Logs dont look right
This is a 2nd gear run after warming up. map is stock ATR map except lower fan settings and lower rpm limit for warm up period. I would think i would be getting 13's at WOT, no? I made 2 charts for the run as there is alot of idling data to better show the run data. Thanks. If I am to follow the fuel table for gear 1-3 my wot at the high end of the rpm range is around .7 or 10.29 AFR>
06-25-2011, 07:53 PM
#3
That is a typical result for a stock-style map. Mazda's calibration is optimized to minimize exhaust gas temperature, not make power. 11 is the rich limit of the wideband oxygen sensor, you are likely much richer in places.
You do want low to mid 13s, that is where the work comes in.
You do want low to mid 13s, that is where the work comes in.
06-25-2011, 08:36 PM
#4
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Thanks, wanted to make sure 13 should be my aim before i start messing with it but I didn't think the stock afr would be that bad though. another thing i noticed if you look at the afr chart, the afr is around 14 until 5-6k rpm but if i look at a multi gear log, only the gear i start in does it. Would that be the closed loop causing that?
06-25-2011, 09:22 PM
#5
Yes. To tell for sure, log short-term fuel-trims (STFT) -- they will drop to zero when it switches from closed loop to open loop.
This switch happens at some point at or before 6000rpm, depending on load and throttle position. Of course, you can tune it however you wish.
Edit:
It is important to choose the correct parameters when logging. The ECU transmits this data fairly slowly, I believe 4800bits/sec. If you log too many things, it decreases temporal resolution, and some data may get shifted to the next line of the log.
What you want to log will depend on what you are trying to tune. No reason not to logs lots to stuff to start with, but eventually it is best to pair it down to only the data you really need.
This switch happens at some point at or before 6000rpm, depending on load and throttle position. Of course, you can tune it however you wish.
Edit:
It is important to choose the correct parameters when logging. The ECU transmits this data fairly slowly, I believe 4800bits/sec. If you log too many things, it decreases temporal resolution, and some data may get shifted to the next line of the log.
What you want to log will depend on what you are trying to tune. No reason not to logs lots to stuff to start with, but eventually it is best to pair it down to only the data you really need.
Last edited by oltmann; 06-25-2011 at 09:46 PM. Reason: also
06-25-2011, 09:44 PM
#6
Thanks, wanted to make sure 13 should be my aim before i start messing with it but I didn't think the stock afr would be that bad though. another thing i noticed if you look at the afr chart, the afr is around 14 until 5-6k rpm but if i look at a multi gear log, only the gear i start in does it. Would that be the closed loop causing that?
However you have to consider the exit loads as well.
I'm not quite sure why the fuel tables are so rich.
In open loop the O2 sensor is not used to help achieve the fuel map value.
When you the Cobb to do data logging your stft value will read 0.16 when in open loop ... the Cobb AP doesn't log a 0 STFT.
06-25-2011, 09:46 PM
#7
Yes. To tell for sure, log short-term fuel-trims (STFT) -- they will drop to zero when it switches from closed loop to open loop.
This switch happens at some point at or before 6000rpm, depending on load and throttle position. Of course, you can tune it however you wish.
This switch happens at some point at or before 6000rpm, depending on load and throttle position. Of course, you can tune it however you wish.
lol
06-25-2011, 10:48 PM
#8
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
I get -0.16 LTFT at WOT as well. That weird the load tables aren't triggering open loop sooner, according to the load tables, I should be open loop at 3000 RPM no matter what according to the log
I attached all my open loop triggers and the run data for each 500 RPM trigger point, hopefully someone will know wtf is going on. Also added the fuel map cell for each point to show what the ecu should be doing in open loop.
I attached all my open loop triggers and the run data for each 500 RPM trigger point, hopefully someone will know wtf is going on. Also added the fuel map cell for each point to show what the ecu should be doing in open loop.
06-26-2011, 02:35 AM
#9
Yeah, I get the .16 numbers as well. I just assume it is a quirk of how the AP deals with floating point numbers.
The throttle and load exit tables don't force open loop. There is some conditional logic there that I've not seen documented.
They are the point above which it may exit closed loop. Hysteresis is the point beneath which it may return to closed loop.
Exit RPM always forces exit, but Exit RPM hysteresis does not force it back into CL.
The throttle and load exit tables don't force open loop. There is some conditional logic there that I've not seen documented.
They are the point above which it may exit closed loop. Hysteresis is the point beneath which it may return to closed loop.
Exit RPM always forces exit, but Exit RPM hysteresis does not force it back into CL.
06-26-2011, 11:00 AM
#12
Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, I don't support the RACE version of AccessTUNER.
That said, the RPM delta tables for fuel are not directly addressable in ATR or ATP.
However, you do have control over the direct entry point into open loop if you understand how the CL and Ve tables work and their relationship to the MAF and calulated load.
That said, the RPM delta tables for fuel are not directly addressable in ATR or ATP.
However, you do have control over the direct entry point into open loop if you understand how the CL and Ve tables work and their relationship to the MAF and calulated load.
06-26-2011, 12:16 PM
#17
the factory fuel maps running rich is as basic as it gets, taking pointless swipes at me for pointing it out doesn't change this
anybody that doesn't understand something so basic has no business trying to tune their engine with a Cobb AP and racetuner, its just a bad ending waiting to happen
if I can shame him into manning up and learning the basics first and even getting some additional knowledge and skill by taking the AP seminar then my job is done here
.
anybody that doesn't understand something so basic has no business trying to tune their engine with a Cobb AP and racetuner, its just a bad ending waiting to happen
if I can shame him into manning up and learning the basics first and even getting some additional knowledge and skill by taking the AP seminar then my job is done here
.
Last edited by TeamRX8; 06-26-2011 at 12:20 PM.
06-26-2011, 12:41 PM
#18
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Yes I know the maps are rich, plus i'm not even taking swipes at you. Not to call you an ***, but you seem like a moody person to me. also by saying that, are you implying that leaning out my tables to what they should be will fix my open loop problem. if so, simply saying so would have saved all the grief. and how am i suppose to man up if i dont even know what right is. think about it. calling me a moron isnt going to tell me what is right for me to admit i am wrong. Also care to explain to the dumbfoundness you think i have why my tables being rich makes the ecu ignore the exit tables
06-26-2011, 04:20 PM
#20
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
lol, thanks. i found a few good threads to read up on, hopefully i find what I am looking for, gonna start changing my tables a little at a time, maybe I'll get lucky and it will clear up. Thanks for all the help.
07-23-2011, 03:57 PM
#21
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Went through 3 revisions today. Running 12's now for AFR. Let me know if I'm on the right track, thanks.
Also figured my open loop entry problems on my own from playing with the tables, I guess I had a blonde day, going into the 12's around 4k, I might push for 3k entry for my next revision, but that is another day, I think doing 3 wot 1st to 2nd runs by my house is pushing my luck with the cops. I happily apologize to everyone I gave grief to. Now I just have to figure out this ATR dashboard **** and I am set.
Also figured my open loop entry problems on my own from playing with the tables, I guess I had a blonde day, going into the 12's around 4k, I might push for 3k entry for my next revision, but that is another day, I think doing 3 wot 1st to 2nd runs by my house is pushing my luck with the cops. I happily apologize to everyone I gave grief to. Now I just have to figure out this ATR dashboard **** and I am set.
07-23-2011, 07:29 PM
#22
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Went through 3 more runs. The AFR is getting more steady for sure. I am getting these 2 weird spikes in the first but not second though, can that be my DSC??? Also my tables are leaner above 7k from .86 to .88 but it goes richer, I don't want to raise it any higher unless that is the way it has to be. Any suggestions. Thanks.
Dont mind my retarded afr at shift, set the rpm light on the ap too high and bounced off the limiter
Dont mind my retarded afr at shift, set the rpm light on the ap too high and bounced off the limiter
Last edited by TechnoPsycho87; 07-23-2011 at 07:30 PM. Reason: addition
07-23-2011, 10:17 PM
#24
It is normal to get a lean spike when the S-DAIS valves open. Looks like the the APV and VDI are opening at the normal spots in 1st. The APV probably stays open when you shift because the RPMs don't drop enough. The spike for the VDI opening still seems to be there in 2nd, but less pronounced.
Eventually, you will probably need to tweak the VE table to get the AFRs you want (lower = leaner, higher = richer) but I'd bet that your fuel injectors still aren't set quite right.
Eventually, you will probably need to tweak the VE table to get the AFRs you want (lower = leaner, higher = richer) but I'd bet that your fuel injectors still aren't set quite right.
07-24-2011, 11:05 AM
#25
Finally own one :)
Thread Starter
Because MM is saying my MAF and P2 are off, I'll post my maf log for the hell of it. Considering I am bone stock, I can't see it being that off. I know I get 5g idle and around 210g peak
