Tamas

iTrader: (1)

No.

MyRxBad

iTrader: (1)

Yep I remember this.
All my 1st generation Rx-7's had the "cold start bottle" full of antifreeze.

poorman

okay this is getting awkward...what works?

Antifreeze works and so does winshield wiper fluid...
TSB says oil...

What really works?

Winshield wiper fluid would be cool since we have to stock some anyway. But if antifreeze is better i might have to live without wiper fluid.

FONZIE

I haven't flooded yet, but I have done this procedure a couple of times. The car still starts and I hope this does a little rotor cleaning in the process, but I'm not sure.....

Shifty Devil

I used to have an RX-3 long ago, I think it was a 1976 (don't remember exactly) and it had an automatic antifreeze injector when the temperature got below 20 degrees F. or thereabouts (I think it was set to well-below freezing and not at 32 degrees). It was from a small bottle you kept full of standard automotive antifreeze, but I don't remember if you mixed it 50/50 or used it straight. I think the antifreeze was injected to melt any ice that formed from condensation that would hold the rotor tip seals away from the outer housing, thus restoring compression for the start. If a rotor tip stopped at a high-point in the housing, compressing the seal against the rotor, it might freeze in that position and not spring back out to contact the wall when it was next started, reducing compression in two adjacent chambers. When the antifreeze burned off it did produce some white smoke. I think most of it was wiped out thruough the ports and some residual was burned. Most probably evaporated after sitting in the exhaust. I don't think more than about 10cc or so was ever injected.

The car later developed a problem that I believe was a break in an o-ring that allowed coolant from the water jacket to leak into a combustion chamber. When I started it the thing would smoke like one of those old insect-repellant smoke-producing trucks. It was so thick you couldn't see through it out the back window. It would smoke like that for 5 minutes more-or-less until the antifreeze was burned off. Any that burned while the engine was running after that initial smoke-out wasn't noticeable. The first time it happened I was leaving a friends house to go home at night. I didn't notice it myself since it was dark, but after going around the block I glanced in the mirror and saw flashing red lights through a thick fog...HUH? Where'd that come from? I got out of the car and saw the smoke pouring out of the exhaust and the cop asked if it did that all the time. I told him this was the first I had seen it and that it hadn't been smoking on the way to my friends. It died out after a couple more minutes and he let me go on my way. After that it smoked like crazy every time I started it. I had to keep the coolant level up, of course, and I drove it that way for several months (maybe as many as 6) until I got another car. The body was rusting and I didn't think it was worth the money to fix, so I lived with it.
Darkling

FONZIE

Well my car flooded for the first time in 20 months and 25,000 miles. I installed this a while back and was hoping it would work. It didn't and I had mazda come by and tow it this morning. I'll let everyone know if it was flooded or had other problems. The tow truck guy told me that it sounded like a bad timing belt! :D

This was a fun mod, but I had to yank it out before the truck got there because I
didn't want the shop to find it and negate my warranty. If it was a flooding of my engine then I know this didn't work.

Go48

And "this" is?

FONZIE

It's in the first post...

Go48

Ah, gotcha. Thought maybe there was a pic you were referring to. Thanks.

devoid

Interesting to hear that it didn't work... Couple of quick questions....
did you do a setup similar to mine, ie - did you put some sort of inline switch with the pump?
if so, did you switch it to spray into the engine, and then give two very quick taps...then turn the switch back, then try to start....
the key being, turning the switch back so that the vacuum pressure doesn't keep sucking fluid.

MEGAREDS

It's disheartening to see that Fonzie did the mod work but didn't have any luck with it. If the mod is not a sure thing (i.e., idiot-proof), as I am guessing it isn't -- otherwise Mazda would endorse it -- I'm renewing my call for work on a de-flood "kit," rather than a mod.

Go48

Here's my kit. I carry one it both of my RX's.

- One cheapo spark plug wrench
- One small plastic syringe
- One piece of small-diameter plastic hose
- One rag
- One freezer bag

Never had to use this and don't really expect to, but the procedure would go something like this:

1. Remove leading spark plugs
2. Attach hose to syringe
3. Slip hose down dipstick tube into oil pan
4. Withdraw a few cc's of engine oil
5. Squirt oil into both leading plug holes
6. Reinstall spark plugs
7. Remove EGI fuse
8. Crank car for a few seconds
9. Replace EGI fuse
10. Start car
11. Wipe up mess, put tools into freezer bag and zoom-zoom!

MEGAREDS

Now all you need do, Go48, is put it all in a red canvas Mazda bag with a rotary emblem on the front, write up a set of directions with no words -- just pictures of what to do -- and charge $89 for the basic kit (without the plastic Ziplock bag), $129 for the "professional" or "advanced" kit (with the Ziplock plastic bag).

Seriously, this looks good. I may try to duplicate it, particularly as my warranty expiration approaches...

Go48

Hmmmmmmmm, now where can I find red canvas bags with the rotary emblem on them? :D

BTW, you can get most of the components in your local hardware store. I got the small plastic syringe from my dentist. Couldn't find a comparable syringe in a retail store anywhere. Just make sure you get a small-diameter hose that will slip down your dipstick tube.

Fearsomefatman

not wanting to sound like an ***... but, after you take these maintenance rubber plugs off from the rotary housings and do the smokey shenanigan... can they be put back? or will I be doomed to drive around leaking dangerous fumes and gunk all over my engine?

I have flooded mine once Ithink, because I saw the yellow light on the dash, but it went away rather quickly, as I just drove about 15 miles....

fray

iTrader: (1)

Arg, I was going to try injecting some oil into the maintenance ports... but the caps are stuck, and my hands are to big to screw with them to get it off..

Time to call the dealer.. drat.

Speedrx8er

Fray,
the cap are in there pretty tight. I use a pliar

fray

iTrader: (1)

Woot.. found out I had free Mazda Road Side Assistance, and the dealer will deflood for free.. just a bit inconvienent.. Hopefully next time (I hope there is no next time) I'll just pull 'em w/ a pliers..

Deslock

An experienced rotary enthusiast/mechanic told me that the plugs don't usually have to be cleaned out unless someone repeatedly tried starting it while it was already flooded.

Instead, he installs fuel pump kill switches in RX7s and 8s. He said that since flooding is caused by fuel being added to the chamber when there is unspent fuel in there already, you should stop trying if the car doesn't start up immediately. Then flip his toggle switch, depress the pedal to the floor and crank for 7-8 seconds (clearing out the unspent fuel). Then unflip his toggle switch and start it up.

What do you all think about that idea? I suppose since it doesn't happen often (never happened to me), it's just as easy to pull the fuel pump fuse instead (as I've read about in older threads).

On a side note, he also said that Mazda should add a fuel pump delay so that it doesn't deliver fuel for a few seconds when starting the car. This guy seemed to know his stuff and my Mazda service department described him as knowing more about rotaries than Mazda themselves.

devoid

Newsflash - Mazda already does these things. Holding the peddle to the floor cuts fuel when cranking...no need for a toggle switch. And with the new flashes, it doesn't inject fuel for 3 seconds anyway.

Deslock

Cool, I hadn't heard about that. On which flash version did they implement that? And has anyone reported flooding despite the 3-second delay?

devoid

I think it was N flash
Yes, Me for 1. I had 3 floods....but mine was a special case. The car didn't really get to drive much the first year of its life. Since I've been driving it, no flooding. THe first flood was how I came accross the 5 min solution for flood 2 and 3. Which kept me from needing to go to the dealer.

LBDboater

Let me step up on my soapbox.... Am I the only one who thinks it is extremely stupid that I should even have to be contemplating this on a new car? WHY DO I HAVE TO DEFLOOD A MONTH OLD CAR? I have carburated (SP) trucks and cars that I dont have to do that to! I keep hearing of this whole deflooding... and it angers me everytime!

tiggerlee

After reading your other three posts I can conclude you know absolutely nothing about the Renesis or rotary engines in general. And that saddens me, knowing that there's an 8 out there somewhere with a clueless and incompetent owner. I would suggest you utilize the search function and educate yourself before stepping up on your soapbox.

MEGAREDS

There are reasons... and here is some background that might help...

As the starting point of a technical discussion (I am certainly not an expert and don't hold myself out as really knowing anything except through reading the various posts), it is my understanding that flooding in a cylinder-driven car is very different than flooding in a rotary, and it is probably a shame that the two different conditions are described using the same word. Too much fuel in the chamber is not that big a deal in a conventional engine because (apparently) the pison housings are exposed to the air, and gas evaporates quickly. With a little bit of time, a conventional car de-floods itself.

The chambers in a rotary, including the RX-8, are relatively large and tightly sealed. Fuel in the chamber that doesn't evaporate hinders -- or even prevents -- the spark plugs from igniting the fuel. Fuel that is dried on a spark plug, containing oil as it does in a Renesis, also has the potential to "foul" the plug, so it won't spark even after it's dry. Finally, the chambers are relatively big inside, compared to a cylinder, so getting a spark to ignite the fuel is harder anyway.

The solution to a flooded Renesis is to open up the chambers, let in the air, drain out any fuel, and replace the fouled spark plugs with unfouled plugs.

There seems nothing fool-proof to prevent the Renesis from flooding, but there are a few things that help. A strong battery spins the chamber longer and faster, giving the spark plugs a better chance of making that all-important first ignition of the fuel. (Once the fuel ignites, there is no problem with evaporation because the heat consumes the fuel, and the car spins out the resulting gas). That's why the battery has been upgraded on the newer cars. "Hotter" spark plugs also improve things. The newer, faster starter also gets the chamber spinning faster. Finally, the car's ECU, or computer, can thin the fuel mix at appropriate times (like when you are trying to start a flooded engine), so that the situtation doesn't get any worse. Ask your dealer if you have all the relevant upgrades.

I don't understand why squirting washer fluid into the chamber helps start a flooded car. I don't doubt it, though, and no doubt that has been explained in other places.

The good news is that you won't flood the car again if you take the time to train yourself to never shut the engine down cold, in exactly the same way you might train yourself to pull on your seat belt each and every time you drive. More good news is that Mazda, to date anyway, has been very good about handling the problem -- towing the car and fixing the flood for free, including adding the upgrades. I suggest you strike the right attitude with your service people to get the best possible result -- go for "polite, but frustrated" as opposed to "angry and mean." If something doesn't seem right, call Mazda North America with the same attitude. The bad news is that mistakes happen, and that the cars won't be warrantied forever.

Its my "feeling" that that you need to be particularly careful in the colder whether, especially when the air is wet -- although I think there have been floods reported in Arizona and Florida. If the car is shut down cold, I think I would try to start it right away, and not let it sit since the problem seems to happen after the car sits a while. I've noticed that people seem to get flooded at car washes, for example, but not at intersections or at the base of their drive ways after stalling. Also, starting the car after a flood should also be done using the special "pedal to the floor" procedure. It's explained in the manual. One thing no one should do is ignore the problem as if it were not a real issue -- it is (as you now know), and it can strand you again.

I remember how angry I was when my car flooded. It's infuriating. There is something surreal about trying to start a car that still smells brand new and looks perfect in every way. Hang in there, though. With a few exceptions (this being one of them, see my "Mileage log" for the other biggie), the car is awesome.