JOLIET WANKEL

is there already a thread for this somewhere else? wasn't able to find it. does anyone know how to do this? i'd like to do this myself. step by step how to would be nice for the person replacing brake fluid, what kind to replace it with and how to bleed brakes once replaced? my car's just a daily driver that i never track. brakes are all stock. thanks

Razz1

Yes, search in the DIY section. It's combined with DIY brake replacements.

Need two people.

Start at rear passenger, then drivers side then do the fronts.

Get fish aquarium tubing to put over fitting run fitting into glass jar.

Open up fitting when person has foot on brake.

Never rrremove foot off brake when you are opening up the fitting otherwise you will get air into system.

So driver pumps brakes 10x and holds brake down. Then you open it up and close it. You do not need to tighten it all the way, just enough to shut it off.

Repeat.

Flush is a little different procedure.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

I also found that it helps to have the car running because it turns on the abs unit.

I had air trapped in my line for months I could never get it out. After my 2nd flush I said ehh fukc it ill try flushing with the engine running, and bam good solid shot of air came through.

so just to make sure you understand you need to keep a close eye on the reservoir so it doesn't run dry always keep it at max. 3 times per caliper you can also bang on the top of the caliper with a rubber mallet sometimes that frees up hidden bubbles. have the car running if you want, not necessary.

Oh yea search next time thanks.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

You don't need two people if you have Speedbleeders.

Razz1

You told me that you leave the bleed screw open when you replace the pads.

Thats the wrong thing to do. That's what caused the air in the system for two months.

I always found it good to drive around the block a few times and re-bleed if you have air in the lines.

They have those vaccum brake bleeder kits now.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92474

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...D=160412428521

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

I don't know the "you" to whom you're referring, but I'd rather spend ~$40 delivered for Speedbleeders and a hose/bag kit than all that money in your linked.

http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/speed/import.shtml

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...+115&y=14&x=28

Razz1

Shadycrew is the one who leaves the bleeders open, which you can do you you bleed the system into a clear container and use a tube and make sure you don't have an air leak when
opening the screw and you don't jar the set up when changing pads causing an air leak.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Yep, that's a way to do it of course, but you potentially waste allot of fluid, unless you're changing the fluid anyway.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

no no what I do is open the bleed valve push the piston back close the bleed valve then bleed the line. That's how I do it on any ABS equipped car. Dont leave it open the whole time just to push the piston back. There is a minimal amount of air that gets in and can be easily taken care of..

But yea speed bleeders are the way to go.

Razz1

If you could have a tube on it that is submerged into a cup of brake fluid.............

It may relieve the problem of any air getting into the system.

Note: There have been two or three reports of speed bleeders leaking since 2004 by members.

shadycrew31

iTrader: (6)

Yes I hear people reporting those damn apex seals too hehehe jkjk..

Trying to have a laugh.

Yea speed bleeders usually are fine if you get quality ones, and take care of them.

Sometimes they fail.

Razz1

That's why getting one extra for the front and one extra for the rear will save you a headache if it occurs.

Especially at the track and you bring them in the tool kit.

JOLIET WANKEL

Repeat.

I followed the sequence exactly like you said with no success. My friend pumped the brake pedal 10 x's and then held it firmly. Then I loosened the passenger rear. Almost no air bubbles came out of the rears, only fluid. When I opened a valve up for both of the fronts, some air bubbles came through. When there was no more and only fluid was coming out, I closed the valve. After I did both fronts, I repeated the procedure to the fronts just to be sure I got all the air out. I did this with the engine off. I tested the brakes and the pedal goes all the way to the floor. I shut the engine off and tried bleeding the valve on the master cylinder and that didn't do anything either. Should I try bleeding the brake valves again but only this time, have the engine running? Is there some other proper way to bleed the master cylinder? Or should I just try bleeding the brakes one more time?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

No reason to have the car on while bleeding your brakes.
The sequence should be: master cylinder, passenger rear, driver rear, passenger front, driver front, and master cylinder again.

JOLIET WANKEL

Thank you. will try now.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I know everyone has their own little technique,so here is mine:
Once I'm in position to open the bleed screw the "driver" pumps the brake pedal 3x and holds it.
He yells to me, "Holding" and I open the valve.
As the fluid is removed the brake pedal will fall to the floor (or end of its stroke).
Once the pedal is all the way down the driver yells, "Floor" and I tighten the bleed valve WHILE THE DRIVER CONTINUES TO HOLD THE PEDAL DOWN.
Once the bleed screw is tighten I yell, "Closed" and the driver knows he can remove his foot from the pedal.
Then repeat for the rest.

JOLIET WANKEL

i tried again and kept the valves open until the pedal was all the way down like jon316g said using the sequence that he said also but instead pumping 10 x's. the brake performace was definitely better and good enough to drive. however, they still didn't feel like i remember them before. there is still a good half pedal stroke before i can feel the calipers start to grab. they are still performing strong enough for the ABS to kick in. i wasn't satified. i decided to follow a bedding-in procedure i read on another thread. i still have the big deadband in the pedal stroke. ughhh.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

And you did check on the fluid level in the reservoir during the procedure and refilled it as needed?

JOLIET WANKEL

Yes, I did check the fluid the whole time and made sure to keep it filled to the 'max line'. I used Valvoline Synthetic from Autozone.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I also used Dot4 Valvoline so don't worry about that.
Did you happen to inspect the brake lines while bleeding?
More specifically, see if one of the lines looked "ballooned"?

JOLIET WANKEL

just bled my brakes and they are absolutely killer! here's how i did it in 12 steps:

make sure you're completely full on brake fluid to begin.

1. warmed the brake fluid up by driving around the block a few times.

2. left the engine running so the power brakes would be on

3. never pumped brakes

4. 2nd person holds the brake while i crack the main master cylinder valve open a little (the
one all by itself).

5. when the pedal is pushed down all the way, close the valve.

6. repeat with the other lines coming from the MC starting by loosening MC1, MC2, RR, RL, FR
and FL. (opening one at a time)

7. then move onto bleeding the passenger rear. the 2nd person holds the brake pedal, i
open the valve a little (it helps to have some clear tubing hooked up to the valve and
running to a bottle. with tubing, it's easy to see if there's air coming through.) when the
pedal hits the floor, i quickly close the valve being careful not to overtighten.

8. i repeated step 7 for the passenger rear 2 more times until when i opened the valve, only
fluid came out and no air bubbles.

9. bleed the driver rear just like in step 7 & 8.

10. next, move to the passenger front. i reached the valve easily by having the driver turn
the wheel full-lock right. the driver presses the pedal down, then i open the valve a little
quickly close it when the pedal can go no further.

11. if the pedal hits the floor while there is still air bubbles coming through, repeat another
time or two until only fluid comes through the clear tubing.

12. turn the steering wheel to the right and repeat for the driver's front. you're done!

I went and tested my brakes and they were amazing with the new pads. No sponge feel and excellent stopping power. It is not necessary to rebleed the master cylinder. I don't believe doing so will help and so I didn't. Bleed all the lines at the master cylinder, then the valves on the calipers starting with the wheel furthest from the MC and lastly the one closest. Do not pump the brakes. This will only possibly create more air in the system.
12. A mechanic I talked to agreed.

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

I would have to disagree here.
I actually didn't re-bleed the MC once and had a soft pedal feel.
Then I re-bleed the MC and the brakes were firm after that.
It only takes a minute, why not do it to be safe.
Plus, it says to re-bleed the MC in the Mazda shop manual

JOLIET WANKEL

well, what if i just rebleed the MC now? would that screw everything up? would i have to start all over again, do the brake caliper valves and then the MC again?

Jon316G

iTrader: (1)

Not going to screw anything up unless you introduce air back into the system (like if the brake pedal is released before you close the bleed screw).
If its working fine for you now, I wouldn't worry about it.
I noticed a difference in braking while driving and that's why I went back and re-bled the MC.

DaAznKnight

Where do I find the master cylinder bleed valve?

I've always just done the four wheels, and then closed it up. Now I have a really soft pedal feel, and I think the MC needs bleeding.