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Originally posted by Spin9k At least we know it's not the std. intake that causes all those little sqiggles and falling output at hi-rpm. But then ... what does and why?
Canzoomer discovered while tuning his fuel controller that the erratic top end is due to the A/F ratio being too rich, something like 10:1
I hate to say this, but the graphs look suspcious to me.
I mean every single RPM got almost 8% more torque and thus 8% more power. Most intakes or exhausts usually have an RPM region where they behave better than other regions (usually the high end benefits the most with aftermarket exhausts and CAI's). But these two graphs look like the car did a dyno run, then some modification was done to the dynojets calibration file to pump up the reading, then same car was run again a little later.
There is also an issue in that the two dyno runs were done just 24 minutes apart (not including the amount of time it took to do dyno run .006 which isn't shown). Can the intake thing be swapped in and out that fast? It looks a lot more extensive than that.
BTW, I don't see any cone filter in their pictures. Are they just showing the pictures with the cone detached? What is filtering the air?
I am sorry to be a little suspicious. I will need a third-party test or some sort of no questions asked return policy before even thinking about it.
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by MrWigggles; 10-30-2003 at 06:14 PM.
Ours comes with a top lip to furthere enclose the filter from the hot engine air. There is not another intake kit on the market at this time that has this feature.
More photos will be posted. Please bear with us. We don't just do RX-8, we do RX-7 as well and we have many projects on hand. We need to finish the RX-8 Mazdaspeed replica kit too. Photos of the retail version will be posted over the weekend both on the forum and on the Rotary Extreme website. Thank you.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by Irish_in_a_RX8 $360!! Prices seem alittle high. He certainly would need to post more pics and info....K&N will be out soon, it will be interesting to compare.
The max HP gain is 14 HP. You can read it from the dyno graph.
Mazda adverstise the hp at the flywheel to be 238HP. The max HP at the wheel with the stock air box is 187.3 HP and that's about 22% drivetrain loss. So you take 14 HP divided by 78%, that will give you the 18 HP gain at the flywheel.
Again, the price $260, not $360. The ram air one will give you more power but we can't duplicate the ram air effect on the dyno since the car is not moving.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by donald121 Is it possible? 18 flywheel horsepower gain for intake? $360 for 18 flywheel horsepower gain will be worth of money if it is real.
If you think we post some fake dyno sheet, you can take the lines and see if they overlap. They don't.
We were working on the intake kit for almost 2 months. We have done a lot of R&D and test out different filters in order to get the best result. If we were to post some bogus dyno sheet, we would have done it 2 months ago already.
On the dyno sheet, you can see the time the car was dynoed. The dyno procedure was the following:
1. we dynoed the car with stock air box first. The car was warmed up to operating temp before we put it on the dyno.
2. the car was still strapped on the dyno and then we swapped out the stock air box with the short ram intake. The reason is that if you remove the car from the dyno, the result will not be accurate. Any change has to be done while the car is still on the dyno and strapped down. We did this to avoid any kind of factors that will affect the accuracy of the dyno result.
3. we dynoed the car again with short ram intake.
You are more than welcome to get the intake and dyno the car and see the result yourself. If you can prove there is no HP gain with a dyno sheet, I will give you 100% money back.
The reason that the pictures of the final product are not posted on the website yet is because we are waiting for the shields, covers, and piping to come back from the polishing shop. The photos will be posted over the weekend.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles I hate to say this, but the graphs look suspcious to me.
I mean every single RPM got almost 8% more torque and thus 8% more power. Most intakes or exhausts usually have an RPM region where they behave better than other regions (usually the high end benefits the most with aftermarket exhausts and CAI's). But these two graphs look like the car did a dyno run, then some modification was done to the dynojets calibration file to pump up the reading, then same car was run again a little later.
There is also an issue in that the two dyno runs were done just 24 minutes apart (not including the amount of time it took to do dyno run .006 which isn't shown). Can the intake thing be swapped in and out that fast? It looks a lot more extensive than that.
BTW, I don't see any cone filter in their pictures. Are they just showing the pictures with the cone detached? What is filtering the air?
I am sorry to be a little suspicious. I will need a third-party test or some sort of no questions asked return policy before even thinking about it.
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by Rotary Extreme; 10-30-2003 at 09:58 PM.
If you guys use a quality air filter, the thing makes 14 WHP, it can be unistalled/installed in 24 minutes, and you have a money back guarantee, then I am sold.
BTW, could you tell us which company is suppling your filter element? Some are better than others; it would be nice to know.
Please note that it did not have 14 rwhp gain across the board and we didn't advertise it as that. 14 rwhp is the max HP gain occurs at 7600 rpm. The dyno sheet is posted so you can take the difference between the two lines to figure out how much the HP gain is at any rpm. It starts to make big difference after 6500 rpm as shown on the dynosheet.
If you need more details, the dyno pull was done in 4th gear starting at about 2000 rpm.
If you have simple hand tools, you can install the intake within 40 min for sure. I personally have done it at least 20 times so I can do it within 15 min to be exact. I will also post installation instruction on the website.
The filter I am using for the short ram intake is the K&N one. For the ram air intake, I contracted another filter company whose name I do not wish to disclose.
As far as the cost, there is a lot of hidden cost and fixed cost that customers do not see and we have to distribute it on top of each unit. We have made a few prototype set ups and use different kinds of filters. Dyno them and road test them. The R&D cost is not cheap and it took us 2 months to give you the product that is guaranteed to make power or your money back.
Now on the material and design, we have chosen the best material and with very thoughtful designing process. We pay attention to details.
Our air flow sensor adapter is CNC machined for the closest tolerance. It will ensure the center part of the center that meansure the air flow will be at the center of the pipe. During the deisgning process, we have found that the air flow sensor on the rx8 is extremely sensitive. If it's not positioned perfectly, the air flow signal will be off and the car will run erraticly. It's possible for you to get a check engine light. The adapter is then TIG welded onto the pipe.
All the shields are done with 1/16" thick aluminum to make sure it's light weight and sturdy. The shileds are build to minimize hot air coming from the enigne. It's almost a completely sealed. The top cover also minimizes hot air getting into the filter.
I can easily build a $50 intake but I will be ashamed to sell that kind of product to customers and it will not be worth our company's reputation. We have built top quality products for the RX7 for years with many innovative designs which no other US vendors can offer. We want to do the same for RX-8. There will be cheaper alternatives on the market but quality costs money.
Thank you.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles Chuck,
If you guys use a quality air filter, the thing makes 14 WHP, it can be unistalled/installed in 24 minutes, and you have a money back guarantee, then I am sold.
BTW, could you tell us which company is suppling your filter element? Some are better than others; it would be nice to know.
I will buy the kit when it is ready. I will dyno my car before and after, post the results here on the forum. If the difference is similar to what you show in your dyno plots then I will keep the CAI.
Look forward to doing business with you.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. I didn't mention anything about price. $260 seems very reasonable to me for 14 peak extra HP at the wheels.
No problem. I understand where you are coming from.
The intake kit will be ready on Monday once we get the pipe and top cover back from the polishing shop.
If you want to put your car on the dyno, please note that you have to make sure all the factors are fixed. You will HAVE TO swap the intake on the dyno to get the most accurate result. And also due to heat soak factor, you also need to monitor the intake manifold temp to make sure both runs are beginning with the exact intake manifold temp. Air temp plays a big facotr on HP. Dyno Jet will calibrate for ambient temp but it has no idea how hot the intake manifold is.
You can find the dyno testing procedure at the bottom of that page.
For the price part, that was not directing to you. Sorry that it sounded that way.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles Chuck,
Just so you know. I was not being sarcastic.
I will buy the kit when it is ready. I will dyno my car before and after, post the results here on the forum. If the difference is similar to what you show in your dyno plots then I will keep the CAI.
Look forward to doing business with you.
-Mr. Wigggles
Ps. I didn't mention anything about price. $260 seems very reasonable to me for 14 peak extra HP at the wheels.
Wow, sounds great... better than I expected it would!
Chuck, when will you have these available in quantity? Also, how large is the K&N filter element you are using with the short CAI? Also, when will you have pics up of the long CAI?
Originally posted by Rotary Extreme The standard short arm intake is $260, not $360.
Ours comes with a top lip to furthere enclose the filter from the hot engine air. There is not another intake kit on the market at this time that has this feature.
More photos will be posted. Please bear with us. We don't just do RX-8, we do RX-7 as well and we have many projects on hand. We need to finish the RX-8 Mazdaspeed replica kit too. Photos of the retail version will be posted over the weekend both on the forum and on the Rotary Extreme website. Thank you.
Chuck Huang
the standard short ram intake is not $260... that is more than Cold Air intakes... short rams typically are under $200 USD
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Right now I am just waiting for the filters to arrive. I have all the other parts ready to go for the short arm intake.
Here are some photos of the finished product:
The filter is an oval shaped one with 3.5" flange, 7" tall, 7" wide and 4" thick.
The ram air one will be finished around Nov 21st. Photos will be posted after it's done.
Chuck Huang
Quote:
Originally posted by Omicron Wow, sounds great... better than I expected it would!
Chuck, when will you have these available in quantity? Also, how large is the K&N filter element you are using with the short CAI? Also, when will you have pics up of the long CAI?
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