Product R,D,&P Request
04-03-2009, 12:49 AM
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Product R,D,&P Request
Ok, Just finished ordering my Access Port so Im stoked and can't sleep... so I thought I'd finally get around to putting this out there...
There are a few products that I feel would be beneficial to the rx8 Community as a whole...
While I will admit that they are both intake components... neither of them are intended to Represent HUGE horsepower gains or anything like that... actually they're meant to work with the stock airbox to make it look nicer/add another ram air option...
OK
IDEA #1 (something I'm having custom fabbed myself at the moment)
We need this product re-developed for better efectiveness/efficiency...
A few of us Refer to it as the "DeeXDub Duct" but really all it is is a carbon fiber ram air duct that bolts into the front bumper to give straight line ram air...
why it needs re-developing as you will see in the picture in the link below ( http://www.fluidmotorsports.com/imag.../large/676.jpg )Is that it ends in a 1'' by 1.5'' rectangle... now the problem with this, is that if one uses it, its going to over stack velocity due to its bottlenecking set-up. What I'd like to see is one sawd half way off (in the middle of the funnel) and re-done with a 3'' oval or circle ending. this would make it superb for fitting a coupler from the end of it, to the stock intake box once the VFAD is removed. I have been looking at this mod for some time now, have had the duct for some time now as well, but cannot justify adding it just to blow air into the box... i want direct flow.
IDEA #2
It would be nice to have an aluminum Pipe Just to simply replace the Accordion on our intake... Granted, this is not going to improve horse power. But it would be a good engine clean up option that would save people from spending the 300+$$$ on an AEM or Mazda speed intake... It would obviously have to have some ports on it for the vacuum hoses and so fourth, but it should not be a big task... honestly, if someone out there had an assload of AEM or MS intakes they couldn't sell they could almost just take out the center pipes, cut some length off, give us the flex coupler and call it a day. But this will probably have to be something newly manufactured. All I'd like at the end of the day, is to be able to open my hood and have a clean looking engine bay without that dirty, ugly accordion intake tube. just my .02.
If anyone sees a feasibility in the manufacturing of products like these. Then it certainly wouldn't hurt... I'd gladly guinea pig for any necessary R&D for these simple modifications.
thank you
There are a few products that I feel would be beneficial to the rx8 Community as a whole...
While I will admit that they are both intake components... neither of them are intended to Represent HUGE horsepower gains or anything like that... actually they're meant to work with the stock airbox to make it look nicer/add another ram air option...
OK
IDEA #1 (something I'm having custom fabbed myself at the moment)
We need this product re-developed for better efectiveness/efficiency...
A few of us Refer to it as the "DeeXDub Duct" but really all it is is a carbon fiber ram air duct that bolts into the front bumper to give straight line ram air...
why it needs re-developing as you will see in the picture in the link below ( http://www.fluidmotorsports.com/imag.../large/676.jpg )Is that it ends in a 1'' by 1.5'' rectangle... now the problem with this, is that if one uses it, its going to over stack velocity due to its bottlenecking set-up. What I'd like to see is one sawd half way off (in the middle of the funnel) and re-done with a 3'' oval or circle ending. this would make it superb for fitting a coupler from the end of it, to the stock intake box once the VFAD is removed. I have been looking at this mod for some time now, have had the duct for some time now as well, but cannot justify adding it just to blow air into the box... i want direct flow.
IDEA #2
It would be nice to have an aluminum Pipe Just to simply replace the Accordion on our intake... Granted, this is not going to improve horse power. But it would be a good engine clean up option that would save people from spending the 300+$$$ on an AEM or Mazda speed intake... It would obviously have to have some ports on it for the vacuum hoses and so fourth, but it should not be a big task... honestly, if someone out there had an assload of AEM or MS intakes they couldn't sell they could almost just take out the center pipes, cut some length off, give us the flex coupler and call it a day. But this will probably have to be something newly manufactured. All I'd like at the end of the day, is to be able to open my hood and have a clean looking engine bay without that dirty, ugly accordion intake tube. just my .02.
If anyone sees a feasibility in the manufacturing of products like these. Then it certainly wouldn't hurt... I'd gladly guinea pig for any necessary R&D for these simple modifications.
thank you
04-03-2009, 12:59 AM
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Hey Saphus,
You have some interesting ideas! Here's a couple things to consider while your brainstorming.
I'm familar with the bumper insert which allows air to be accessed through the bumper. It's a pretty cool looking add to the RX8. One thing to consider is the fact that the stock N/A motor does a pretty good job of pulling air through the intake as it is. One thing we've found looking at various datalogs with the accessport is sometimes we see a calculated load above 100%. What this means is at a few brief moments the motor is almost supercharging itself due to the nature of the air velocity.
This type of duct might be useful for short ram intakes but otherwise any intake that functions similar to stock may or may not see increases in airflow. One way to find out would be to data log your MAF values or calculated load values with and without this duct.
As for your second idea with the intake. One thing to consider with the AEM is it's molded in the same shape and size as the stock intake. This means there isn't any recalibration necessary with your Mass Airflow sensor. Creating a larger or smaller diameter intake tube would require a MAF recalibration.
Also, the shape of the intake and placement of the MAF is critical. The MAF on the RX8 is very very touchy and even the slightest air disruptions or turbulence can cause faulty readings and poor performance. Not saying it can't be done as it has been but the overall shape and construction might hinder performance instead of maintain or increase it.
There's always room for improvement. Perhaps a vendor will pick up your ideas and run with it!
You have some interesting ideas! Here's a couple things to consider while your brainstorming.
I'm familar with the bumper insert which allows air to be accessed through the bumper. It's a pretty cool looking add to the RX8. One thing to consider is the fact that the stock N/A motor does a pretty good job of pulling air through the intake as it is. One thing we've found looking at various datalogs with the accessport is sometimes we see a calculated load above 100%. What this means is at a few brief moments the motor is almost supercharging itself due to the nature of the air velocity.
This type of duct might be useful for short ram intakes but otherwise any intake that functions similar to stock may or may not see increases in airflow. One way to find out would be to data log your MAF values or calculated load values with and without this duct.
As for your second idea with the intake. One thing to consider with the AEM is it's molded in the same shape and size as the stock intake. This means there isn't any recalibration necessary with your Mass Airflow sensor. Creating a larger or smaller diameter intake tube would require a MAF recalibration.
Also, the shape of the intake and placement of the MAF is critical. The MAF on the RX8 is very very touchy and even the slightest air disruptions or turbulence can cause faulty readings and poor performance. Not saying it can't be done as it has been but the overall shape and construction might hinder performance instead of maintain or increase it.
There's always room for improvement. Perhaps a vendor will pick up your ideas and run with it!
04-03-2009, 01:04 AM
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thats wassup man. appreciate your input... Now on the ram air set up I had one question for you... Because I've never been quite clear on it... Im familiar with how the v-fad duct works. as it does run down the length of the bumper and so fourth, would it be simply a better idea to disconnect the duct/ vfad function (i simply dont like the idea of a variable intake whatsoever but in the case of the rx8 that could just be my ignorance speaking) or is that added length on the end of the box what is keeping it healthy? (would explain why every successful ram air out there bends into the grill)
And as for the tube replace... It would be great if it were to be made in the same nature as the aem, without any change of size whatsoever. the primary goal with this mod, would be to maintain stock running standards while giving us something a little more attractive to look at.
And as for the tube replace... It would be great if it were to be made in the same nature as the aem, without any change of size whatsoever. the primary goal with this mod, would be to maintain stock running standards while giving us something a little more attractive to look at.
Last edited by Saphus; 04-03-2009 at 01:15 AM.
04-03-2009, 09:50 AM
#4
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(i simply dont like the idea of a variable intake whatsoever but in the case of the rx8 that could just be my ignorance speaking)
has variable length intake and it won Le Mans. It would not have without it. got it?
04-03-2009, 08:42 PM
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Well does that same variable system apply to our cars? one of the most popular modifications i've read on this site, is the removal of the VFAD feature. While restricting the airflow may help even out certain features of the engines, I can't see how it can do THAT much good, as it only gives us "FRESH" (i was blown away when I found out that was what the f in vfad stood for) air above 5000 rpms... now while i do realize the ratio riches up above 5gs... that would justify that feature, but for someone who uses a CAP or similar product that could even it out, thus providing a broader powerband, wouldn't having a direct bumper-flow ram air Through the RPM band Be rather beneficial?
04-04-2009, 09:18 PM
#12
Power!!
Well does that same variable system apply to our cars? one of the most popular modifications i've read on this site, is the removal of the VFAD feature. While restricting the airflow may help even out certain features of the engines, I can't see how it can do THAT much good, as it only gives us "FRESH" (i was blown away when I found out that was what the f in vfad stood for) air above 5000 rpms... now while i do realize the ratio riches up above 5gs... that would justify that feature, but for someone who uses a CAP or similar product that could even it out, thus providing a broader powerband, wouldn't having a direct bumper-flow ram air Through the RPM band Be rather beneficial?
The variable length setup is VERY beneficial to a normally aspirated Rotary. Rotarygod did a big write up on this about 4 years ago. You can clearly see the effect on people's dyno sheets posted up here. Do a little research on the site and you'll find some good info.
Now on a FI setup that's a different story...
04-05-2009, 05:00 AM
#14
IDEA #2
It would be nice to have an aluminum Pipe Just to simply replace the Accordion on our intake... Granted, this is not going to improve horse power. But it would be a good engine clean up option that would save people from spending the 300+$$$ on an AEM or Mazda speed intake... It would obviously have to have some ports on it for the vacuum hoses and so fourth, but it should not be a big task... honestly, if someone out there had an assload of AEM or MS intakes they couldn't sell they could almost just take out the center pipes, cut some length off, give us the flex coupler and call it a day. But this will probably have to be something newly manufactured. All I'd like at the end of the day, is to be able to open my hood and have a clean looking engine bay without that dirty, ugly accordion intake tube. just my .02.
If anyone sees a feasibility in the manufacturing of products like these. Then it certainly wouldn't hurt... I'd gladly guinea pig for any necessary R&D for these simple modifications.
thank you
It would be nice to have an aluminum Pipe Just to simply replace the Accordion on our intake... Granted, this is not going to improve horse power. But it would be a good engine clean up option that would save people from spending the 300+$$$ on an AEM or Mazda speed intake... It would obviously have to have some ports on it for the vacuum hoses and so fourth, but it should not be a big task... honestly, if someone out there had an assload of AEM or MS intakes they couldn't sell they could almost just take out the center pipes, cut some length off, give us the flex coupler and call it a day. But this will probably have to be something newly manufactured. All I'd like at the end of the day, is to be able to open my hood and have a clean looking engine bay without that dirty, ugly accordion intake tube. just my .02.
If anyone sees a feasibility in the manufacturing of products like these. Then it certainly wouldn't hurt... I'd gladly guinea pig for any necessary R&D for these simple modifications.
thank you
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