JTek_55

I know, I know, the car is not about straight line performance. I get it. I love the RX-8 for exactly what it is, and isn't. That said, how viable would a shot of nitrous be with this engine? I was thinking about this the other day because I don't know if want a supercharger. I don't really think I would need the speed all the time, and with nitrous, I could just get that extra boost if the situation arose. If it is possible, how much would be too much? 50 shot? 100 shot? Maybe even 150 shot? Inquiring minds want to know...

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MrWigggles

Nitros will work in any car, just have to tap into the intake somewhere.

I've never heard of anyone having trouble with a 50 shot and I think a 100 shot would also work.

The biggest issue with the RX-8 is that to drive it fast you need to drive it close to the redline. I talked with one of the people who drove it at Laguna Seca and he said he was hitting the fuel cut-off at 10K all the time.

And that is where the problem could arise. Your nitrous system needs to have some protection to prevent from spraying if you hit the fuel cut-off. Nitrous with little to no fuel is a bad combination.

-Mr. Wigggles

wakeech

nitrous + air without fuel won't do anything... that's why it's "fuel cut" and not "fuel dangerously lean out"...

JTek_55

Shame on you Wakeech! I expected a technical breakdown about nitrous and rotaries...:p

N20SA22C

N2O will due fine in the Rx8. As with all rotaries and forced induction, timing and fuel are critical. I am planning a direct port wet shot probably 60-75 shot. N2O is easy to use when installed correctly. You will also need to address timing issues as No engine especially a rotary likes to detonate. You dont want to put a gash in those pretty stainless rotors from a broken apex seal. Colder plugs will help too. Hope that helps and use NX Nitrous.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

MrWigggles

wakeech,

I did say "little to no fuel" (i.e. lean)

So, you're saying that it is O.K. to hit the fuel cut-off with the nitrous going?

-Mr. Wigggles

N20SA22C

It is NOT ok to hit the fuel cut off during N2O runs. It will more than likely detonate your engine and blow an apex seal. You are better off getting some type of fuel cut defense or dont run nitrous. I have seen many rotaries die becuase of the fuel cut under boost leaning out the engine, and boom. Same with NOS. Just let off the juice at 7500 if you are worried. If you are still worried get a Jacobs Nitrous Mastermind, then if fuel pressure drops off, so does the NOS. Hope that helps

Kyle Lancaster--El Cajon Mazda Kia

wakeech

i'd be much obliged to learn how that works, then if that's the case Kyle.

... i just can't see it combusting without a source of energy (fuel)...??

zoom44

i think what he is saying wakeech is that even though you have just hit the cut off there is a moment when a little fuel may have gotten in so the fuel/ nitrous balance is way off.

MrWigggles

Kyle,

That is what I've heard from all the ricers in my area:

[FOB accent]Nos at high RPM. Vely big time BOOM!!![/FOB accent]

Of coarse their solution is not to get an advanced nitrous system but just remove the fuel cut circuit.

-Mr. Wigggles

Rotary Soul

why are people so eager to destroy their cars?
giving your car nitrous is like giving it crack....

N20SA22C

Do you believe that boosting your rotary through supercharging/turbo is "putting it on crack"? N2O does the same thing. It forces more air and fuel into the chamber(housings in this case), and when done at the correct air/fuel ratio with good timing (-2degrees every 50hp) you can have excellent results.Plus it isnt being used all the time either. People just throw N2O on becuase its cheap add no extra fuel and detonate like crazy and blow out apex seals. Same thing happens if you put a ghetto turbo kit for $637 and you kill your motor on 5 psi of boost. Its all about tuning. I run a 75-150 shot on a stock apex seal ported 12a. I have a 97gph pump for the carb, 114 gph gfor the N20, with MSD boxes and ign timing controll it is actuall quite nice.
Another thing is its Value Priced! I got a NX gemeni Twin that is 75-300Shot with a 15lb bottle, race solenoids, lines, plate, ect, New for $570. Thats less than $2 per hp not including extras, but the 300hp will kill my 12a, If you have a professional set it up for you, you will have great results.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

RotorMotor

Kyle,

You and me are gonna have to hook up man. I'm in SD too and I'd love to find a reliable, honest, quality after-market tuner when I get my 8. Anybody you can recommend?

Thanks,

RM

wakeech

yes, but the same thing would happen, NOx or not, with regular fuel cut; if the engine leaned out in that fashion as you hit the rev limiter, kids who love to burn out their tyres like morons in first, just gunning it, would seize their engines every time they tried it. obviously, this isn't the case... not to mention that it mayn't be only fuel cut, but ignition cut as well. in that circumstance, i simply can't understand why this would happen.

Kyle?

P00Man

nitrous is a fuel source, its very unstable, the slightest thing could set it off, sure its safe, but it doesnt need gasoline to explode.
________
FX

lefuton

so...i read about nitrous and i see 50 shot, 100 shot 150 shot, 200 shots even...wet shots and dry shots.

whut's all this mean? 50 shot is ...50cc's or something? and what's the difference between wet and dry

CraziFuzzy

no, the 50shot, 100shot, etc refer to the approximate horsepower they would be adding, its a very rough approximation, but it gives some idea to the guys who want to install it. A wet system has the NO2 sprayed in after the Throttle Body and with the Fuel Injectors, hence, the wet part of the intake system. A dry system sprays the NO2 before the throttle body. A dry kit is usually cheaper, as it usually only includes one injector (sprayer), while wet kits are usually more elaborate, replacing the entire intake manifold, or adding a seperate block to it.

wakeech

what the hell would it be combusting with then???

if it's indeed all N02/n2o4, or something like that (can someone elaborate on the chemistry??), how could it then combust by itself?? what lower state of energy could it reach if in contact only with gases like O2, CO2, N2, etc etc etc (atmospheric gases, none of which have high potential energy states)... this just doesn't make sense.

lefuton

ah hah! tnx =)

CraziFuzzy

N2O breaks down at about 300C. Into nitrogen and oxygen. The oxygen greatly increases the rate of combustion, while the Nitrogen actually buffers the explosion a bit. This increase in oxygen levels produces the increase in power. N2O will not burn on it's own, and is rather safe (unless you are breathing it). An added bonus is the cooling effects of the compressed N2O expanding in the intake system. This drops intake temperature quite a bit, and when used in a turbo/sc system, can act as an intercooler, removing the heat of compression.

wakeech

thanks Crazi,



ah ha. i had the gas wrong. oh well, good to know.

this is what i've heard happens, but only at 300C, eh?? wow.



just as i'd thought. thanks then for that. so, as i was saying before then, hitting fuel + ingnition cut shouldn't do much other than waste a good amount of your N2O.

although it's a pretty cool, cheap, easy, and safe way to make some extra ponies, it's really more of a drag racing (and hence street racing) power adder... so, it's not for me.

Boost

As far as breathing it in....

all the nitrous used in automotive applications is nitrous+ which contains a sulfur additive to both give it a noticable smell <rareified NO2 is oderless>in case of a leak, and to make it impossible to inhale and abuse.

And nobody thinks NO2 is expencive, but they never considered how much it is to fill a bottle. raceing 2 nights a week, I would go though a 10 lb bottle in roughly 2 weeks, at 25 bucks a pop that means in a 4 month period i was spending about $200 on just NO2 alone. then on top of that, there are the bottle warmers, remote bottle openers, teflon hoses, VAFC, upgraged window switch...ect, ect.....it has cost me more than a turbo upgrade <ah, well>

N20SA22C

N2O is the chem makeup two parts nitrogen 1 part oxygen, when it burns the molucules separate, the oyxgen makes more power by being mixed with the right amount of fuel. It is similar to how a turbo/supercharger force feeds air in, and air is only about 15% oxygen, whereas N20 is 33% oxygen. The wet shot is meaning you are adding fuel at the N20 nozzle, a DRY shot is when you are relying on the injectors to compensate for the extra oxygen from N20. When you hit the limiter & the fuel cuts out, it causes a lean situation and can detonate, possibly causing serious engine damage. Hope that helps. And yes it does have sulfur in small amounts for automotive uses to deter inhaling, and it is a bitch to refill, that is why I have a 15lb bottle, looks like a scooba tank.

Kyle Lancaster--Double Agent Salesman

panda

i dont know if there is a nitrous thread allready, i did a search and couldnt find anything.
i was wondering whats the deal with nitrous and rotarys?? i understand nitrous with piston engines, but it is obviousley going to be different with rotarys.
and does anyone spray or is anyone planning to spray on their renesis??
pro's, cons, whatever!

andrew

mikeb

I woulded recommend it

but yes you could use nitrous on a rotary just like a pistion engine

however, bye bye warranty