The Interceptor-X for N/A Cars
08-20-2005, 04:28 PM
#1
Mazsport.net
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the shop
Posts: 753
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Interceptor-X for N/A Cars
Thank you for your interest in our new product. I know there are a large number of you that wish you owned a 238bhp N/A RX-8. The reality is we have spent most of our R&D time working on forced induction cars not because we feel the N/A market is not strong, but because we see the problems and frustration with some turbo cars in our shop. Some of these guys already are $5000 into performance upgrades and cannot safely drive their cars. Some guys were ready to uninstall the kits because of drivability problems, not all, some are "fine" but the reality is I have not driven one that was "Great"!
We feel confident we can and do want to improve the N/A platform. At this point it is impossible to prove the end results of properly tuning a N/A car because we have not done it. I believe that 190-200rwhp from a stock car is possible based on our experience Porting,building and tuning of the older RX-7 engines. If a customer requests 200rwhp from his N/A second gen and yet have a smooth idle and long engine life here is an overview of whats required:
Six port 13b (86-91)
9.7-1 compression rotors
Street ported intake(6) and exhaust (2) ports
Removal of the N/A exhaust port sleeves that aid in noise reduction and install Turbo exhaust sleeves which are less restrictive at high rpm.
89-91 upper and lower intake manifolds. These have the best of the earlier DEI system, again more power at high RPM.
2 1/2 inch free flowing exhaust with a "Header" I know, 13b Rotary engines dont have heads but for some reason the name "Porters" never stuck!
A Stand alone fuel management system. This is critical, good parts are just parts without acurate tuning!
A Stand alone system also allows the Airflow meter to be removed which is nothing more than a restrictor plate if not required by the ECU.
By comparison the Renesis has:
10-1 compression
More intake and exhaust port surface area than we could ever create with the older engines and still maintain a smooth idle.
A much improved intake manifold design.
Mazda moved away from the older restrictive Airflow meter design
Personally I feel Mazda did an excellent job with the Renesis engine. Those early 250hp, 24?, 238 #'s were probably very close if not achieved. Our results of a stock RX-8 on the dyno were 170-175rwhp and 121-130 rwtq. The AFR's at high rpm were rich, almost turbo rich (12.2- 1) so where all of the R&D and newly improved components should have really made a peak HP difference, they instead gargled in fuel. I do not work for Mazda R&D (but would entertain the idea if approached hint,hint) so I do not know exactly why this is the case. I feel confident it was not an oversight on there part but done for a reason. With AFR's set at 12.9-13.0 the power and torque will without a doubt in my mind improve. A side effect of this will
be higher Exhaust Gas Temps (EGT's), which over a long period could create a problem with the emission control equipment. Perhaps protecting these systems is why they ran a rich/cool scenario. I do not know. Since our system is designed for offroad or racing purposes where Cat. Converters are tradionally removed to achive more power, the engine could be tuned with leaner AFR's to maximize the HP/TQ output.
I think with all the bolt-on's and a accurately tuned Interceptor-X 220-230 rwhp could be achieved. This is speculation and I may be off a little, please keep in mind we do not have the dyno results to prove this yet.
From the inception the Interceptor-X has been designed to work with all 6 speed FI and NA RX-8's. There are some internal setup differences but if a customer were to get one now and go Supercharger,Turbo or NOS later the worst case scenario would require it be sent back. It would not require a different system altogether.
thanks again for your interest, Scott
We feel confident we can and do want to improve the N/A platform. At this point it is impossible to prove the end results of properly tuning a N/A car because we have not done it. I believe that 190-200rwhp from a stock car is possible based on our experience Porting,building and tuning of the older RX-7 engines. If a customer requests 200rwhp from his N/A second gen and yet have a smooth idle and long engine life here is an overview of whats required:
Six port 13b (86-91)
9.7-1 compression rotors
Street ported intake(6) and exhaust (2) ports
Removal of the N/A exhaust port sleeves that aid in noise reduction and install Turbo exhaust sleeves which are less restrictive at high rpm.
89-91 upper and lower intake manifolds. These have the best of the earlier DEI system, again more power at high RPM.
2 1/2 inch free flowing exhaust with a "Header" I know, 13b Rotary engines dont have heads but for some reason the name "Porters" never stuck!
A Stand alone fuel management system. This is critical, good parts are just parts without acurate tuning!
A Stand alone system also allows the Airflow meter to be removed which is nothing more than a restrictor plate if not required by the ECU.
By comparison the Renesis has:
10-1 compression
More intake and exhaust port surface area than we could ever create with the older engines and still maintain a smooth idle.
A much improved intake manifold design.
Mazda moved away from the older restrictive Airflow meter design
Personally I feel Mazda did an excellent job with the Renesis engine. Those early 250hp, 24?, 238 #'s were probably very close if not achieved. Our results of a stock RX-8 on the dyno were 170-175rwhp and 121-130 rwtq. The AFR's at high rpm were rich, almost turbo rich (12.2- 1) so where all of the R&D and newly improved components should have really made a peak HP difference, they instead gargled in fuel. I do not work for Mazda R&D (but would entertain the idea if approached hint,hint) so I do not know exactly why this is the case. I feel confident it was not an oversight on there part but done for a reason. With AFR's set at 12.9-13.0 the power and torque will without a doubt in my mind improve. A side effect of this will
be higher Exhaust Gas Temps (EGT's), which over a long period could create a problem with the emission control equipment. Perhaps protecting these systems is why they ran a rich/cool scenario. I do not know. Since our system is designed for offroad or racing purposes where Cat. Converters are tradionally removed to achive more power, the engine could be tuned with leaner AFR's to maximize the HP/TQ output.
I think with all the bolt-on's and a accurately tuned Interceptor-X 220-230 rwhp could be achieved. This is speculation and I may be off a little, please keep in mind we do not have the dyno results to prove this yet.
From the inception the Interceptor-X has been designed to work with all 6 speed FI and NA RX-8's. There are some internal setup differences but if a customer were to get one now and go Supercharger,Turbo or NOS later the worst case scenario would require it be sent back. It would not require a different system altogether.
thanks again for your interest, Scott
08-20-2005, 05:01 PM
#3
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 3,535
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Scott
Thanks for you reply i believe that once you have conclusive figures on the possibility of getting 220-230 rwhp on a N/A engine your sales of your product will also flow more freely. :D
Dont forget if you ever decide on an Australian test pilot for your product keep me in mind , :D i hope you got the information that you needed on the Australian market , its certainly no where as big as yours but we are as keen as mustard to improve our rides .
B..free
michael
Thanks for you reply i believe that once you have conclusive figures on the possibility of getting 220-230 rwhp on a N/A engine your sales of your product will also flow more freely. :D
Dont forget if you ever decide on an Australian test pilot for your product keep me in mind , :D i hope you got the information that you needed on the Australian market , its certainly no where as big as yours but we are as keen as mustard to improve our rides .
B..free
michael
Last edited by Lock & Load; 08-20-2005 at 05:09 PM.
08-21-2005, 12:00 AM
#5
THREAD KILLER
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Mazsport! I think it's great that you guys finally came up with the solution to do away with the unfriendly ECU. Personally, if price wasn't an issue for me, I would go for the Interceptor-X for my N/A setup. One thing that would hold me back is this: if I'm going to spend 1K+ on an ECU unit, I might as well go Forced Induction with it too and not stop at N/A. I'd like a good high-power N/A setup though...but that's just me.
I have no doubt an Interceptor-X equipped N/A Renesis would perform better than an E-Manage/Canzoomer equipped one.
I have no doubt an Interceptor-X equipped N/A Renesis would perform better than an E-Manage/Canzoomer equipped one.
08-21-2005, 12:50 AM
#7
Go Texas Longhorns!
The nice thing is, since the cost of FI is kinda high $5000+, you could always buy the Mazsport ECU as an intermediate step, get use to tuning and playing with the software, tune NA see if your happy, if not go to the next step.
A nice side effect is also better mileage and a smoother idle.
so if money is an issue, do it in stages.
A nice side effect is also better mileage and a smoother idle.
so if money is an issue, do it in stages.
08-21-2005, 06:39 AM
#8
New Member
Mazsport,
If all the bolt on, you mean a cold air intake and a nice intake pod, extractor, high fo cat and muffler?
If that 220 rwhp will be good - certainly believable.
Originally Posted by Scot
I think with all the bolt-on's and a accurately tuned Interceptor-X 220-230 rwhp could be achieved. This is speculation and I may be off a little, please keep in mind we do not have the dyno results to prove this yet.
If all the bolt on, you mean a cold air intake and a nice intake pod, extractor, high fo cat and muffler?
If that 220 rwhp will be good - certainly believable.
08-21-2005, 02:40 PM
#9
Ok Scott thanks for the response. We await a test mule so to speak. Most of us know that the "usual" working mods are the revi intake with cold air thingy, cat back(yes i know the high flow cat helps but MOST people think it is too loud for a daily driver) and a light flywheel. We have people dyno'ing in the 190's and one with a 204 --with those mods. If 25-30 horses can be squeezed out with the stock cat in place then i think the market will be there. I also think people will really be surprised about how well the car will perform ALL without voiding warrenty because the unit is a plug and play(sort off). Easy to take off before going back to the dealer.
We await a trst mule!
Olddragger
We await a trst mule!
Olddragger
. PM me if you have another way!
08-21-2005, 07:49 PM
#13
Originally Posted by MazsportScott
Let me ask this, if I take a N/A RX-8 to the dyno this week and make the #'s how many are ready to purchase an Interceptor-X right away? Scott
I would say, yes I will buy one if you can let us know the results. The only item that has me worried is the lack of the stock ECU knock retard. I'm sure that I am over reacting to this issue, because if I tune it right to begin with, I should never be that lean to get pinging.
08-21-2005, 08:38 PM
#14
If there were solid numbers(within reason of course), I would know of 2 people from my small group that would get one----- Now. I could think of 2 more that would get it after the 1st two got their and showed them what it could do.
I think you are a reputable person and would believe your posted results. By the way I would love to be a southeastern beta tester for ya, We have a good shop and very experienced people around. We go to the track not infrequently.
Aw Hell I can wish can't I?lol
Olddragger
I think you are a reputable person and would believe your posted results. By the way I would love to be a southeastern beta tester for ya, We have a good shop and very experienced people around. We go to the track not infrequently.
Aw Hell I can wish can't I?lol
Olddragger
08-21-2005, 09:00 PM
#15
"Call me Darkman"
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto/Florida
Posts: 2,034
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by olddragger
Ok Scott thanks for the response. We await a test mule so to speak. Most of us know that the "usual" working mods are the revi intake with cold air thingy, cat back(yes i know the high flow cat helps but MOST people think it is too loud for a daily driver) and a light flywheel. We have people dyno'ing in the 190's and one with a 204 --with those mods. If 25-30 horses can be squeezed out with the stock cat in place then i think the market will be there. I also think people will really be surprised about how well the car will perform ALL without voiding warrenty because the unit is a plug and play(sort off). Easy to take off before going back to the dealer.
We await a trst mule!
Olddragger
We await a trst mule!
Olddragger
08-22-2005, 11:42 AM
#22
Humpin legs and takin nam
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Clearwater, Fl
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
^^ Don't you people read? I mean REALLY read?
In Scott's post he said (to paraphrase):
We haven't done the Interceptor-X on any 8's because no one has come forth and purchased it for this application. We think it is possible to get 220 - 230 NA because of the amount of airflow the engine can handle, but we would need someone to bring thier car in and purchase the solution and we can tune it (for a low fee?).
So obviously, they do not have concrete pricing or dyno numbers yet until the first customer brings thier car in. However, you can estimate $1700 for the unit and a few hundred for tuning.. so about $2000 to $2500 ish
In Scott's post he said (to paraphrase):
We haven't done the Interceptor-X on any 8's because no one has come forth and purchased it for this application. We think it is possible to get 220 - 230 NA because of the amount of airflow the engine can handle, but we would need someone to bring thier car in and purchase the solution and we can tune it (for a low fee?).
So obviously, they do not have concrete pricing or dyno numbers yet until the first customer brings thier car in. However, you can estimate $1700 for the unit and a few hundred for tuning.. so about $2000 to $2500 ish
Last edited by guy321; 08-22-2005 at 11:50 AM.
