pluto

Since there's really no (not that I'm aware of) standalone ECU out there, how much are you guys willing to pay for it? Something that already has a good base map for either N/A and/or forced induction, fully configurable on all sensors and actuators, drive-by wire instead of stepper motor control on TB/TPS, all your accessories functional to stock specs etc....

darkducati

$1,500-$2,000

Cynic10508

There's the rub. I imagine that alone would make it rather expensive. This would be especially true if the RX-8 shares few if any such components (controlled via the ECU) with other vehicles.

pluto

The price is pretty much set on our side but i wanted to see what you guys are willing to pay for the ECU. The engine management company I'm dealing with had finished up with the SRT4 standalone project (which means there'll be some fast SRT4 out soon) I mentioned to them a few weeks ago that the Rx8 market could be worth looking into since I have not heard of any standalone available yet (maybe HKS pro V but only HKS authorized dealer can tune them). Since I'll be the one in assisting them with the development along with creating the basemap and providing technical support for this EMS, I like to know if its worth the time to consider developing it. Once we get it started, we're looking at 2 months in R&D time. There'll be some changes on the existing software to fit for the rotary engine.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

think it would be very difficult to do. with fly by wire, dsc, anti lock, afr, bla bla bla all in one unit????

the neon has how many of these things????

but the idea is a great adventure.

beers

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

This is all silly. How much do you think you can get if you had full control of the engine managment? How much an engine can make is finite. If you had a carb and distributor you could get the max out of it. Maybe not at all rpm ranges but stiil you'd see the max power. So what is left if the thing is poorly tuned now? how poor could it be and pass smog and run within reason? Could there be 10%? Maybe but not more. So are you telling me that an SRT4 or whatever it is gets so much power that it's worth $2000?

The Rx8 needs all the help it can get and mine in particular. I need the added control, I can afford to buy whatever I want for it. But no way would I buy a $2000 Control. If not me then who will? Only someone who believes he is going to get a 50% increase.

BaronVonBigmeat

Yeah but the question is, can you reliably increase power by 50% or more with the factory ECU fighting you tooth and nail?

Jon

HKS F-Con is plug and play

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

In the case of supercharging it comes with the territory. Your now spending money outside the original car in NA tune. It will be a function of the kit. As it is included I can tell you this, if it costs $2000 I will not make the kit for sale. That much would ruin the market. Besides how would I feel with those guys selling a small electronic device that costs more then my compressor. Somebodys cheating here.

I hope to be able to supply a control costing no more then $400 plus the nozzles.
That would be a cost to me in bulk orders. If I had enough volume I would comision my own and get the price way down. Electronic componants don't cost ****. The money is in the R&D. I have R&D too. Probably a lot more thhen they do. Not probably, for sure.

Longhornxtreme

Richard.. did you ever think about looking at how Megasquirt could work with the Rx8? I just got turned onto this cost effective and HIGHLY controllable ECU...

I was wondering if it would be possible to run the engine off the megasquirt and leave the stock ECU in place to control accessory and DSC? Is there a way to make the ECU think its still firing injectors etc?

Because if that's possible... the megasquirt is a $160 standalone ECU with opensource tuning software that runs its own MAP sensor up to 20psi....

Sometime soon I'm gonna start a megasquirt thread... I think RotaryGod has one on his 1st gen....

LittleJohn

What a strange quesetion...
Before anyone can really answer that Q... I'll throw one right back at you.
How much reliable power can this standalone ECU make over stock? And I'm talking across a broad spectrum of RX8s not the "up to...XX%" BS that some vendor say. I'm talking "XXXkw at the wheels guaranteed"
If you come back and say that this ECU will make 200Kw at the wheels or your money back, I'd be more than happy to part with AUD$3000

Get the picture? I don't mean to sound harsh, but whats the point of a standalone ECU if it doesn't have any substantial power gains.

timbo

The standalone ECU is not going to offer a substantial power gain in its own right. The benefits arise when you also add FI, so the price of a standalone ECU has to be considered in that context, and the overall cost of the FI mods.

So perhaps the question might be better put in terms of what people are prepared to pay for a reliable, tractable 300(insert own no. here)rwhp.

My 2¢

Oh, and Richard, while I sort of agree with you about optimum power yields still being achievable using carburetor and distributors, these old technologies would not cope with multi-valve and changing profile inlet/outlet valving, which require complex real-time timing and mixture tuning.

JoeB

and not to mention what the fuel consumption and toxic gases emmited into the atmoshphere would be like....

Ciao

There is not much left in the *8 * the wick is nearly wound right up

I done an AFR reading on the dyno and the car is at 12.8 ,,,, now that's about spot on

You would'nt want to lean it much further

Stand alone's are good ( with this car ) only if you want to go FI

Theres not much left for NA

$2000 - $3000 is money well spent if you get reliable everyday 300 RWHP IMO

Ciao

Dave

timbo

Yeah, but you won't get FI plus a standalone ECU for that sort of money...will you???

Sigma

If people were willing to add $2,000 onto the price of their turbo's to get 300rwhp they'd just be lining up to buy SSR's turbo kit which already does that and is cheaper and has significantly more potential power than buying a GReddy and adding a $2,000 standalone on top of it.

Rasputin

If I had the opportunity to market a new stand-alone programmable ECU to my own tech requirments, I definitely wouldn't restrict it to one single application (RX8). Make it universal with loads of features (most road cars PCM have the same functionalities - add some race oriented features). As the basis (the existing SRT4 PCM) is probably with 4 injector and 4 ignition drivers, you could develop a software running all twin-rotors and 4 cylinder in fully sequential mode, up to 8 cyl in semi-sequential, and anything in groupe mode (with a distributor).
I would make it compatible with a range of existing trigger patterns (60-2 teeth, 36-1 t, 30-1,...) plus your own in case of non-compatibility.

Doesn't it make more sense?

neit_jnf

I thought the Renesis was found to make best power at 14:1 afr?? Anyway, I'd love NOT to replace the stock PCM but to plug into the OBDII/CAN/WDS port and tune it instead.

pluto

How much gain can vary depending upon the person tuning it. How much experience do you have in tuning? A basemap provided in the EMS is just a basemap. Its simply a map that'll allow you to get around town and still maintain safe margin until someone that can tune it for you. The real question in this thread is that how much are you willing to pay to have overall control of your engine management? Not piggy back or reflash where you can only do so much.

The resolution on this EMS is 32 x 32 (1024 data points) on fuel, ignition, boost, Closed loop auto tune etc....

Richard Paul

iTrader: (5)

I'll talk to RG about this one, thanks.
If it's the one I'm thinking of it's a unit you assemble yourself.
That's not a problem, just thought I'd mention it.

Jaguar_MBA

$500...I think a Stillen ECU upgrade for a 300ZX goes for ~$600

Longhornxtreme

Yes it is the one you have to solder yourself... but the parts are less than 200 and for another hundred it'd be worth your time to solder or to pay someone to solder for you... As soon as I get my finals finished this week I'm going to start talking to people with alot of experience with it...

My friend just got a system up and running on an old Ford 302 and said it was the easiest to set up EFI solution he's ever come across...

Megasquirt's Webpage

UPDATE:

You can order preassembled ones at http://www.rs-autosport.com/

ACOSTARACING

There Is Stand Alone System Already For The Rx-8. Motec, Microtech & Tec-3r. Both Have System Ready For The Rx-8 Check Them Out

neit_jnf

as I understand it the stock ecu controls everything in the car

ABS, EPS, DSC, A/C, All the Gauges, and who knows what else

Longhornxtreme

Well then whats the problem? Why don't we hear more about these systems?

The reason I want to attempt the megasquirt is that you can choose what level of piggyback all the way to standalone that you want...

Let the stock PCM 'think' its still working but in reality don't even use a damn thing from it... other than accessory control...