Dual e shaft position sensors ?
07-01-2015, 09:30 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
Dual e shaft position sensors ?
Has anyone fitted/mod the RX8 with dual e shaft position sensors? I'll design my own code to handle the 2nd sensor, but I'm just wondering if anyone has created the brackets or modded the case to handle 2? The 2nd one would be for backup failure purposes.
07-02-2015, 12:11 AM
#2
Driving my unreliable rx8
I don't believe I've seen anything about that before. What is the scenario that you are looking at needing a second one? I've seen very few cases that even believe it might be a failure. I can't recall any failure's I've actually seen posted about.
07-02-2015, 09:46 AM
#7
Registered
Thread Starter
Correct. I did some searching and asking around on the aviation forums, thought I'd check on here too in-case someone had something. I know the chances are slim of failure of the actual sensor, but I'm not willing to take that chance. Dual redundancy is key. (Which is why I love the Rotary so much over the conventional pistons)
07-02-2015, 12:10 PM
#12
We had the crank position sensor fail mid-race at a Chump Car event. This was on a Neon. The car wouldn't rev over 4000.
We lost positions, but we pitted and replaced it. Kinda hard to do that with an aircraft, which is what this gentleman is building. So when someone says:
"when it stops working the spark and fuel are cut. The ECU is quite good at interpreting the sensor signal...and knows when it isn't correct"
That's not good news at 15,000ft :\
To the OP: I'm not sure I can help with solving the problem, but one related thought: I tinker with drones and one issue we have is with dual sensors (say compasses/accelerometers) the program gets confused when the sensors disagree, as it doesn't know which one is correct. In our case we end up running 3 of the same sensor. So I imagine you'd need to run the second one as standby and have an emergency switchover procedure if the primary fails, rather than take input from both simultaneously. I could be stating the obvious, but just a thought.
We lost positions, but we pitted and replaced it. Kinda hard to do that with an aircraft, which is what this gentleman is building. So when someone says:
"when it stops working the spark and fuel are cut. The ECU is quite good at interpreting the sensor signal...and knows when it isn't correct"
That's not good news at 15,000ft :\
To the OP: I'm not sure I can help with solving the problem, but one related thought: I tinker with drones and one issue we have is with dual sensors (say compasses/accelerometers) the program gets confused when the sensors disagree, as it doesn't know which one is correct. In our case we end up running 3 of the same sensor. So I imagine you'd need to run the second one as standby and have an emergency switchover procedure if the primary fails, rather than take input from both simultaneously. I could be stating the obvious, but just a thought.
07-02-2015, 12:21 PM
#13
Driving my unreliable rx8
07-02-2015, 08:24 PM
#15
Registered
Thread Starter
It would just be a straight fail-over. Not using both sensors at the same time. Ofcourse with the eshaft sensor, it will have to be programmed differently as it will be reading at a different clock position. The flight avionics uses 3 of everything for sensors.
Thanks guys, looks like I'll come up with my own bracket down the road.
ps. We do have an extra air intake in aviation. One is filtered and one is ram air once we get nice and high. The rotary already has backup injectors & coils, which is why we love them. We can limp to the closet airport on 1 rotor, or the primary, or the secondary, etc... The redundancy it already built it compared to any other automotive engine.
Thanks guys, looks like I'll come up with my own bracket down the road.
ps. We do have an extra air intake in aviation. One is filtered and one is ram air once we get nice and high. The rotary already has backup injectors & coils, which is why we love them. We can limp to the closet airport on 1 rotor, or the primary, or the secondary, etc... The redundancy it already built it compared to any other automotive engine.
07-02-2015, 09:22 PM
#16
Driving my unreliable rx8
If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
07-03-2015, 10:39 AM
#17
For p-port it doesnt make much sense to even start with a Renesis engine to begin with, that's an added reliability issue in itself considering you can buy all the parts off the shelf for a full aluminum 13B p-port
Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine
Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine
07-03-2015, 05:49 PM
#18
If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
For p-port it doesnt make much sense to even start with a Renesis engine to begin with, that's an added reliability issue in itself considering you can buy all the parts off the shelf for a full aluminum 13B p-port
Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine
Building your own ECU too, seems like you're hell bent on risk taking far beyond trying to double up on one of the most reliable parts on a Renesis engine
Where the hell are you two getting this from? Is there like another thread or something? OP has not mentioned anything about doing a peripheral port.
07-04-2015, 06:45 PM
#20
Registered
Thread Starter
If you're going with a P Port than you are going to have to have a custom air intake, and install there injectors there aren't you?
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Do you plan on using the OMP with it locked into a set position? Just curious.
If I was trying to build a bracket for the second sensor. I would try putting it 180 Deg out from the first for simplicity in timing.
Ok so to answer this thread, there is no bracket. Thanks everyone.
07-05-2015, 12:37 PM
#21
07-05-2015, 04:40 PM
#22
Super Moderator
lol....lets reinvent the wheel.
It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?
OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?
OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
07-05-2015, 05:28 PM
#23
lol....lets reinvent the wheel.
It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?
OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
It a simple 23 year old position sensor (also exact same part used on FD RX-7 and some Mazda piston engines) I see zero benefit in trying to code in with two units with OBDII?
OP perhaps you are confusing the fact that the FD RX-7 does have two (same as RX-8) e shaft sensors?
07-05-2015, 08:25 PM
#24
Super Moderator
And the answer to OP is no.
And there is still no point in adding/designing/adapting another e sensor, making two for RX-8... even for 'back up', they don't fail.
Your point is?
07-05-2015, 08:37 PM
#25
Dark Moderator
iTrader: (18)
Ash,
I have to disagree with you. Your general statement of "they don't fail".
There isn't a part made today that does not fail. Eventually EVERY part will fail if given enough time.
I do however agree with redundant systems. The AH-64D has similar redundancies. How can you argue with the most technilogically advanced helicopter on the planet?
Yes I know, I know the RX8 doesn't fly. My point remains the same.
Travis
I have to disagree with you. Your general statement of "they don't fail".
There isn't a part made today that does not fail. Eventually EVERY part will fail if given enough time.
I do however agree with redundant systems. The AH-64D has similar redundancies. How can you argue with the most technilogically advanced helicopter on the planet?
Yes I know, I know the RX8 doesn't fly. My point remains the same.
Travis
