yomomspimp06

^depends on the pad yo use. I ran some HAWK blues that I never had a problem with until one 30* night with no heat in them coming off the interstate. It looks like there are various pads available that will behave differently. Do you have a specific pad in mind? here is a link that should give you a few choices

SBGarage

Yeah the good thing is these pads are a SUPER common racing pad shape (I'll go so far as to say the most common racing pad shape, and is even shared with our AP Competition caliper) so every manufacturer makes them, they're a FULL 20mm thick, and very affordable. Bang for buck you can't go wrong. Also because of the efficiency of the rotors and heat dissipation capacities you can use a more street friendly compound for crossover track use. For instance, HP+ is great on the street for stock brakes but you'd cook them on track with stock rotors... however running HP+ in this caliper with these rotors (either the standard or fully floating AP rotors) is fantastic, and consistent braking first lap out to last lap, and for street use all day every day .

SBGarage

Those are 17" wheels from the FD You WILL NEED 17's to clear these brakes. HP+ are decent when cold on the street, but stay cool on the track because of the rotor design and wide air gap.

SBGarage

We haven't done back to back linear stopping 'distance' tests specifically with the stock brakes as it's sort of a moot point (they react differently when you load them up with heat). However we did some ad-hock deceleration tests with a g-force sensor and the track-day kit did yield a slightly higher total decel rate on Toyo R1R's for both tests, same tire pressure when cold. However when the temps increased on the stock brakes those numbers became more significant... the stock brakes just can't take the same beating. That was a good validation of our calculations.

We did our experimentation with HP+ front and rear for both setups, however the HP+ in the stock setup was older, so not everything was equal, different temps during different days etc, a week apart. I'll see if I can find the notepad we used to jot down test numbers, but in testing total decel rate was a bit better when cold but the stock brakes dropped off as the rotors got hotter and hotter with 80-20 stops where our BBK was totally consistent. So long story short, total linear stopping distance should be a little better cold, and MUCH better hot.

ZiG

derp, typo. Meant 17. Cool, because 18s + race tire prices suck. :P

RedDream

Great! I'm starting to like these brakes more and more

wankelingoff

How much lighter than OEM?

SBGarage

4lbs 13oz for calipers and 17.1lbs per assembled rotor

SBGarage

Just back from machining, S2000 front and rear kits and FD Front and rear AP and Wilwood kits! There's been a MASSIVE amount of interest from those communities, though for some reason the RX8 platform doesn't seem to be pushed performance wise. Hopefully something will materialize here though.

It's strange, maybe we're missing the average RX8 demographic? There are so many RX8's out there and we've seen the 8 has immense potential for performance... but somehow it appears to be an under-tuned platform as a whole.

Sato Tatsuya

Yeah, I can only speak for myself here, that I am definitely interested in boosting the performance of my car, but there are a couple of reasons why it is being held of, and I don't jump on these right away:

1) Family Priorities - self explanatory
2) Used car - it is already pretty badly rusted, that I just don't feel like I should invest any money into a rusted old car. I would be more inclined if this car was at least a well-taken cared of vehicle from the previous owner with no rust.
3) Finances - this ties in with the family priorities, because of financial reasons.

Too bad though...but even reasons #1 and #3 wouldn't hold me back, if it wasn't for Reason #2.

Again, I can only speak for myself, and I do not know if it is the same reason for everyone else? Personally, I would like to get these BBK set.

SBGarage

If my car was rusty I would make it perform the best it possibly can as as rust bucket serves no other purpose than going fast. I can't figure out if RX8 owners push their cars hard though, it seems like they are more of a daily driver/commuter (which makes no sense because they get absolutely terrible gas mileage ). At least in FD-land when we're driving around, we're not going to work or the grocery store, it's on back roads, highway, track, car shows, etc.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding why people own RX8's. Miata owners DD and tune their cars, and they're rusty and worthless as well. Soon you guys will realize that your cars are just parts cans, which hold performance parts which make your car a better performing car. This is the Miata and RX7 mentality. If you bought it as a slow daily commuter, you picked the wrong car

Panda Fetish

iTrader: (2)

I just rebuilt my stock motor for boost, but if these get produced I would definitely pick up a set after I get my turbo running properly. If you got any prototypes lying around collecting dust I'm local and would love to take one of your hands for... uh.... development? Thats something tuning shops need right?

SBGarage

Where are you located?

Currently we only made/have the one set for our shop car but it's just brackets and lines at this point that are different from the FD kits as the rest of the parts are on the shelf for FD (quite a few parts are shared between the two setups).

FD track brakes on an RX8: We're not worthy

elford_tim

Thing with RX8s is that for example the brakes are rather good stock already so you have to run it pretty hard on the track to get to the limits of the stock setup, let alone exceed it. Plus I'm sure you're aware that you have some competition already .

I'm a little surprised that I've often got the only RX8 at events I go to or maybe there is one other one, yet you see a ton of Lotuses (Lotii?), BMWs, S2ks and Miatas.

That said, your setup does look rather interesting...

SBGarage

Yeah the cornering speeds on the RX8 are phenomenal. We track Miatas (NA,NB,NC,ND) and s2000's, a Lotus Elise and FD's. The RX8 is down on power, but ignoring that fact, we sneak up on porsches and corvettes all day long in corners and long sweepers. Straights it's all over, they're gone. But pushing the car hard, the RX8 is absolutely phenomenal in the handling department. We've added Ohlins DFV's to our track car and it's absolutely amazing now with this brake setup and the new suspension. We're still dialing this car in but it's a very very very good platform. I'm surprised these cars a relegated to grocery getters... it's pretty sad really.

elford_tim

I agree regarding the very good platform - I run the Öhlins myself and I'm very impressed with how well the car performs with good tires, the coilovers and a good alignment.

The driver, on the other hand...

Schartz

iTrader: (6)

How much for a one off kit? I am REW swapped (500whp) and soon to be fully gutted and caged. This kit would come in handy. Maybe even the AP kit.

SBGarage

The Ohlins turned our shop car from great to absolutely fantastic! We've done some extra work tweaking them and will have some RX8/NC Ohlins products coming out shortly (though for some reason not many people are willing to go to high quality coilovers on the 8... but we sell them all day long for the NC's from custom valved track spec to the standard street variants). Anyway, glad you're running the Ohlins, you couldn't have picked a better suited coilover for the car.

SBGarage

We could do the AP kit as well (we've already designed brackets for it) ... but we figured with the slow interest in the Wilwood version why bother with something twice the price. The RX8 community is unusual... I can't predict what people actually are willing to do to their cars. On average, we've found the answer is currently ... not much. But there are some people out there like yourself that are willing to push the RX8 to the limit, and what we've found is these cars are absolutely brilliant platforms. Even with a stock motor R3, with brakes and suspension we were giving Porches a run for their money in the long sweepers and tighter corners on track. In the straights it got a bit embarrassing The cornering ability (and high speed cornering stability) of the 8 is phenomenal... with more power this car would be at the top of the boards.

SBGarage

up^

wankelbolt

iTrader: (21)

I'm trying to justify the upgrade, but I haven't been able to yet.

The stock brakes are exceptional. On everything except maybe full-on super-wide slicks they can easily and repeatedly overpower the available grip. And contrary to popular opinion, my actual experience is HP+ pads with stock rotors are fine and don't fade. They last for 3-5 weekends and I haven't had to replace rotors yet. I'm not Lewis Hamilton, but I'm not slow either. I've turned a 1:28 on Summit Point main with a "dead" engine and non-R street tires.

At some point in the next year or two (or five) I may go turbo which will put more demands on the brakes. Switching to Hawk HT pads will address that and likely leave plenty of headroom. I'll still have much more brake than grip. If I do start to burn things up then, I'll look into a BBK. But right now? Nope, **** works great, I can use the money on another set of tires.

As for the RX-8 community: Obviously almost all RX-8's are not owned by track fanatics. Even within RX8club, I bet. It's the nature of the car. The FD is a completely different car. 20 years on it's still expensive and impractical, so only enthusiasts and track nuts are going to own them. S2000 is in a similar position.

Give the RX-8 another decade to leave the ordinary people and poseurs behind and it will have a larger number of owners concentrating on performance. But you may still be stymied by how good some of the stock RX-8 systems are. You guys have made your name and your business by fixing things Mazda got wrong (e.g. FD headlights! which I bought), but Mazda got the RX-8 brakes right IMHO.

SBGarage

We've been considering how to work with this platform, and we did come up with an idea. Producing two different versions of the kit, using a two sided bracket which can accommodate one caliper for the BBK sized brake rotors, and one caliper for the stock brakes discs. If we were to go through with it, it would result in a scaled down brake upgrade kit which would equip your RX8 with 4 piston calipers, and new brake lines, which utilize the stock brake discs.

In our experience, the straight vane discs did not hold up to 30 minute sessions, without enormous spikes in rotor temperature and obvious brake fade. The single piston slider leaves a lot to be desired, in terms of both its stiffness, and to some extent the pad taper. One of the benefits of these calipers is the 20mm thick brake pads, which are extremely cost-effective in terms of their lifespan, and provide a considerable heat barrier, which prevents the brake fluid in the caliper from boiling.

Stock straight vane rotors lack the air-pump effect of directional vane rotors, which means that their ceiling on thermal load is comparatively low. When you switch to a directional vane rotor, the rotation of your brake discs pulls air from the center of the brake rotor, and expels it. This means that at higher speeds, the heat evaporation of the directional vane rotors scales upwards. Straight vane discs lack this effect, so under aggressive conditions, they heat up very rapidly, and still cool off at essentially the same rate as when the vehicle is stationary. This vast difference in dynamics is why you will never see straight vane brake discs on a race car, or high end performance platform.

The stock brake system on the RX8 will suit daily driver purposes, and light track use. However, aggressive and especially extended track sessions will bring the limitations to light. The RX8's chassis is capable of much, much more, its handling abilities are world-class. A Caliper and Brake lines kit might serve as a good inbetween, to keep costs low and maximize performance. It would also leave room for an upgrade to a BBK system at a later time, since most of the kit would carry over between configurations.

Sato Tatsuya

I definitely like the sound of the two additional options.

If it was me, I would just go with the top-of-the-line option, because...why not? Haha!!

yomomspimp06

just wanted to add that rx7 guys have test fitted 17x9 +45 rpf1..... SBG BBK passed the test.
Lets get this rolling people

SBGarage

This would allow people to get started with stock rotors, then upgrade later. The only downside is you'd have to swap to wider calipers later but the bracket would be the same. Thankfully these calipers are very reasonably priced compared to the AP's