clemson89

I have done some reading and found that AutoX seems to be a fairly cheap and fun hobby. I have always loved my cars and enjoyed playing around on the road but I think its time to be more responsible and do it on a closed track.

I would like to hear from an experienced AutoXer on their experiences and what I should know going into this adventure.

Also I would like some information on alignments and suspension... something dumbed down. I know a little bit about cars, im no master mechanic but I have done alot of the work myself to my cars.

I dont understand alot of the termonology when people talk about camber, and alignment termenology.

I can always wiki the temonology but my brain will probably explode with all the information in there.

As I am just starting should I just get a regular alignment and not worry about this?

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

I have only been autox'ing for a few years, so i am very much still a novice, but one thing I can advise you is to completely clear your mind of any thoughts of alignment or suspension modifications for your first few months of autocross.

The most important thing you can do to start off, is to get yourself a good accurate tire pressure gauge, and some tire chalk.

Set your tire pressure, mark your tires, and just go have fun on the course. The experience alone will be 'new and exciting' and will take a bit for you to just get used to the concepts of autocrossing (learning the track, walking the track, understanding how to approach turns before you actually get to them, looking ahead).

Once you get through the first few races, you can then come back, sit down, and say "ok, what exactly do I need to be faster". Again, within your first season, this will ultimately boil down to gaining confidence, using your brakes appropriately, accelerating appropriately, and minor changes like tire pressure from reading the chalk marks on the tires.

Once you get some confidence, then you can come back and ask the experts with questions like "my car isn't rotating as much as i want" or "my steering is not sensitive enough" or "how can i make use of the entire contact patch of the car".

i hope this helps. note that I am not trying to say 'stop asking questions', but moreso 'dont go changing things just yet until you understand your car better on the track'

Loki

iTrader: (1)

^ +1000
Just go out there and drive, the rest will make a lot more sense, plus you get to meet people who can point you in the right direction on specifics.

Also, I'd suggest picking up some HPDE classes or track days with instructors too, a nice 20-30 minute session with a pro for feedback will save you months of AutoX runs... IMO.

poacherinthezoo

This.

Regular "sidewalk" chalk (even shoe polish) works, and you can get a pack of 6-8 sticks of it from a variety of stores.

You can also pick up a magnetic sheets (looks like a sheet of paper) for around $6 from an arts and crafts type store and cut out your preferred car numbers and class. It's easy, cheap and is much easier for course workers to read than painters tape or shoe polish.

clemson89

Thanks for the feedback! I am just worried about initial tire inflation, I dont wanna roll onto the side wall and F my tires up.

poacherinthezoo

Unless your normal tire pressures are absurdly low, you will be fine at your normal pressures for first run or so. If you want you can bump up your normal pressures by 3-5 psi for the first run and then add/remove air as the chalk indicates.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

For someone also trying to get in to AutoX whats does this mean? Can you explain the purpose of tire chalk/How to apply it? I dont understand that purpose. What it is supposed to show?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

If you draw a chalk line across the sidewall of the tire and up on to the tread, when you run, those parts of the tire that touch the ground will wear off the chalk, so when you check at the end of the run, the chalk line will stop at the point to which your tire was rolled over. Usually there is a line molded into the sidewall all around the tire near the tread with a little triangle on it. You don't want the chalk to end before that line, that means you're driving in your sidewall instead of the tread, which kills tires and your lap time. Usually you would raise tire pressure in this case.

If the chalk ends on the tread, then you have the opposite and much less common problem: way too much air so the tire is balooned out and you're not using the outer parts of the tread. Usually you'd reduce the pressure until the chalk stops somewhere slightly above (1/16"?) the aforementioned line, and make fine adjustments using a tire thermometer from there. At least that's how I was taught, folks probably have different approaches.

Also, if the particular course you're on has more, say, hard left features than hard right features, you can use chalk measurements to see if you need to add pressure on one side only (the outside tire in the prevailing hard turns) to keep better traction.

That said, you wouldn't want to solve alignment problems with tire pressure, it's really for fine adjustments. With the wrong alignment you could end up in silly situations like having too much pressure for overall grip AND riding on the edge of the tire in a turn further reducing that grip.

poacherinthezoo

Loki gave a good explanation, and since I've been too busy with med school to pack all my autocross stuff up for the year, I can add some representative pictures for you.

Picture #1: Representative image of a tire chalked before a run. Note the chalk extending beyond the tip of the "arrow" and onto the edge of the tread.

Picture #2: Representative image of the tire chalk markings after a run at the appropriate tire pressure. The chalk lines stop right above the tip of the arrow, and what was on the tread has been wiped off.

Hope that helps.

Chrishoky

iTrader: (9)

Very informative guys! Thanks so much!

escapedan

I will take this in a bit different direction - the driver perspective. While I have not racked up national wins, etc. I have been auto-crossing for the better part of 15 years in a very wide variety of cars including Datsun 240z, Dodge Viper, Mazda Miata, Subaru, etc.

My $0.02 from a driver perspective.

0) HAVE FUN!!! (That's what it's really about, isnt it?)

1) Take the "track walk" seriously. Use it as a time to really study the course, not a time to socialize - there is plenty of time for that during the day. Draw a rough sketch of the layout. Stop frequently and kneel down - get the perspective you will have while sitting in the car. Make a mental picture of how you will approach each series of corners, not each corner individually. Turn around and look at course backward - this can really give you a different perspective on how and where to apex the corners. Look at the asphalt/concrete - where are there material bumps, changes in material, etc. that can affect how your car might handle.

2) Don't drive at 10/10ths your first run (assuming you get 3-4 runs). Don't take a Sunday stroll, but focus on getting a good reference for each corner. If I have 3-4 runs, I try to make my first run a reconnaissance run, go for the win on my second run, and use the third/forth as a backup and/or to improve my second.

3) Horsepower does not win auto-crosses. Smoothness and control does. Trust me, I did two seasons in a 600+ Viper and still got my clock cleaned by some guys (and gals) in Miatas. They just didnt look as cool doing it It's perfectly fine to give up a bit of speed going INTO a corner to gain speed on the EXIT. The most important corner is the one leading to the longest straight - this is true for road racing as well. Your best run will likely "feel" like your slowest - if you are fighting to control the car you are not being smooth and not being fast.

4) Adding to #3, start smooth and speed will come. If you start beyond your limits you will develop bad habits that are hard to break and probably end up being slower, not faster over time.

5) Don't make a whole bunch of changes after each run or even each event. You should focus on making one change at a time and seeing how it impacts the feeling of the car. If you change two things, how do you know which, if any, change was positive?

6) Instead of spending a ton of money on modifying your car, use that money to attend more events. Every dollar spent on improving YOU is worth $10 improving the car. My guess is you drop your times dramatically more by spending time and money on you first. Then work on the car.

7) Ask to ride with GOOD drivers. Be respectful, some fellas don't want a passenger because they are out to win and your extra lbs cost them time. Others are out to have a great time and welcome new auto-xers. I tend to take passengers on my first run (reconnaissance) and later runs (if I feel great about my second run time). Ask GOOD drivers to ride with YOU! Dont turn down feedback - take it all in. Some will apply to you, some will not. Use what works, dont use what does not work. Dont avoid trying advice just because you don't "think" it will work - dont knock it until you try it.

8) Did I mention to HAVE FUN!!!!

Good luck, I hope to see you on the track / course.

tla88

I also want to start auto-x, but I dont even know where the nearest and funnest track is by me. I'm located on Long Island ,NY.I was also told that some tracks make you drain your coolant for water, is this true for most tracks?

poacherinthezoo

The Sports Car Club of America - About


I've never heard of any tracks mandating 100% water as coolant for any track day/HPDE events.

swoope

iTrader: (5)

the money post on this thread! also covers hpde. and once again, HAVE FUN!

beers