fengshui

Well this is the combination I am trying on my WRX. So far the grippy tires and sway bar have provided amazing turn-in and road holding abilities. I suspect with the stiffness provided by the springs, some sitckier tires like falken azenis sport, and a custom alignment to provide more tail-out and absolutely no understeer at the limit would truly help the RX-8, realize its potential. The WRX was a real pig when I bought it, it plowed everywhere. But after a bit of tuning (with more parts to be added, soon), it has really achieved some amazing handling. Like some folks have said elsewhere, you can make a RX-8 handle and accelerate like a Honda S2000 or Miata, but you can't add extra seats to either of those. :p

Hopefully some people who are receiving theirs can comment on where the handling dept. needs improving.

Chris

wakeech

well, that's pretty universal. if you understand how those things (stiffer suspension, more aggressive alignment) affect the chassis dynamics, it's a given that you'd have to change the setup from a street-car to an auto-xer.

by any account, softer tyres will always make your car handle better. always. grip is what allows you to traverse a bend at a higher speed. that higher speed causes centrifugal momentum to shift the weight to the outside, which is exactly where you don't want the grip: enter the stiffer springs. reduction in roll at speed is exactly what you want, but you also need the suspension to be as compliant as possible beyond roll reduction, as tracks aren't perfectly perfectly smooth and flat.

the alignment affects the characteristics of the car entering, exiting, and through the corner. there is no perfect solution, not for one car, or even one car and driver... but yes, auto-x setups, by virtue of the terribly tight radii corners, all bunched together designed to upset the car's balance, can be harder than even some road-circuit setups, with alignments much much more aggressive.

fengshui

Heh now im really excited. I can't wait to test drive this car. A true 4 person car that will not only grip if I want it to, but drift as well. I hope no one buys that black one at my local dealer so I can get it eventually :D

chris

eccles

I think a good set of boots and an agressive alignment will work wonders.

Apropos of this, I have to wonder how the STi and EvoIII would fare in handling tests if they had the same mediocre Bridgestones as the RX-8 instead of the gumballs that they do come with.

fengshui

Yeah thanks to the crappy RE92s of the WRX it pulled horrible skidpad #s. I wouldn't be surprised if it was near STi and EVO grip now. The only thing I'd ever be worried about with the RX-8 is snow. But other than that, It should handle with near lotus elise-like nimbleness.

chris

Quick_lude

Drifting is a slow way around the corner.. I wish that fad would just go away.. :shakeshead:

Digisan

Don't tell the WRC guys that!

wakeech

wellllll... i dunno about that Digi... they certianly to go quicker in the low grip when sliding, but they don't kick the tail out around 15m radius corners, 'cause they don't have to (it WOULD be slower), whereas drift "racers" :p would throw their car into a 45* four wheel slide for every single corner, and down straghts too...???

drift is just slow for show. i don't get it.

eccles

But there's a fundamental and dramatic different in the available traction on dirt and asphalt.

On asphalt, a decent tire can provide loads of lateral grip, but that's just not doable on dirt. In order to be fast around a corner on a loose surface, you need to use the power of the engine to develop thrust in the direction that each tire is pointing, hence the tail-out cornering attitude angle which allows all four wheels to provide maximum thrust in the desired direction.

It still ain't the fast way around a sealed track, tho'.

Quick_lude

Of course we're talking asphalt and of course drifting is all for show.. It's pretty good skils, I'll admit that but I still don't understand the general publics obsession with it.. :shrug:

fengshui

Correction. Drifting is not all just for show. It can be used as an actual racing technique allowing the car behind to enter the corner at a more aggressive angle, and brake later (trail braking), in order to try to pass on the outside. While in autocross and time trials where you have the whole track for yourself, you drifting a corner is slower. But on a road course, any tricks up your sleeve you can pull ahead with, by all means use them. Drifting included. Drifting as an exhibition sport is a whole different animal. But drifting as a means of passing is a widely accepted racing technique. Just wanted to correct some folks.

chris

eccles

Dude, what races have you been watching? In all my years of both watching and competing in circuit racing, I have never once seen nor heard of anyone using intentional drifting as a passing technique.

Trail braking to carry speed into a corner and wash it off mid turn - thus getting you into the corner ahead of your competitor - sure, but drifting, never.

Sputnik

Yeah, what he said.

---jps

BryanH

I have a video of it being used as a passing technique... however I don't remember the name of it so it has been difficult to find among my 8+ GB of videos here.

fengshui

I have seen a picture of a RX-7 passing in such a fashion as well. But I forget what site it was on. I'm sure it was a site about drifting as well. All I was saying was that drifting does slow you down, but every racer needs to learn some drift control especially if they enter too hot into a corner.


chris

Wrex blue

Drifting is for WRC, it would be kind of hard to race on dirt, snow, mud, ect... when you dont drift and you are trying to keep high speeds. I have never seen drifting on asphalt as a techniuqe, but it is priceless in WRC.

TerenceT

sliding on a dirt course with 4wd is diff from drifiting on asphalt as some had pointed out already

dirt course you have very little traction and in order to engage the 4wd, you have to be on boost. Since the car will slide no matter what, the driver will put the car into the turn much eariler, letting it exit with the desired grips

drifting is fun to watch, is it faster, i don't know but i don't think so. cuz...

1) you cannot maintain speed thru a corner, yes you can maintain power, but not your actual speed
2) if it's really that much of a benefit, how come you don't see it in touring races or nascar or F1?
3) Initial D did it in down hill races :D

drive any rwd car, and you'll find that whipping it around the intersection with your tail out is not much faster than taking it smoothly

and last word, wrx and the 8 is different beasts, you can't bring all that you've learn on the wrx to the table unfortunatly

FritzMan

Easiest way to see how drifting kills time is at a local Auto X course. Sure it's fun and macho, but fast it is not.

SuperRex

I love watching exhibition drifters, and in that sense it is slower, although much cooler than grip driving. However, I am a strong believer that drifting CAN be faster on asphault, but only downhill and through certain types of turns. If used in combination with grip techniques on a downhill race, a driver could harness the best of both worlds!!! But then again, I'm 17, don't have a license, and wouldnt attempt to drift until I am capable of doing so.

randyc

http://deedlit.org/evo7.asf



Randy Chase
http://www.elisetalk.com/
http://www.conecam.com/

Dark8

Link didn't work.

randyc

Sorry, it worked that long ago. I don't know a new link for it.