khronus79

iTrader: (1)

The wining formula has been here all along, it's quite simple, why hasn't mazda done it yet is beyond me

You take one of this:


Drop one of this in it, or a s2 renni:


Keep it lightweight, simple, no bs electronic nannies and you got yourself a winner.
Build one today and I will buy one YESTERDAY. I can guarantee that if Mazda builds anything close to this they will have the best selling rotary of all time.

Symbioticgenius

^+1 Signed

lesper4

iTrader: (3)

and so we wait, i guess i am not a hurry i plan on keeping my 8 for 5-8 years. curently starting year 4

chiketkd

iTrader: (5)

^^ +2 Signed up for that!!!!

blackenedwings

I actually disagree with this Mike... we have both seen the astonishingly terrible amount of knowledge people have about rotary engines. If they have even heard of them its something negative. Sales don't come from nowhere. Mazda could do a lot worse than having a rotary car that gives them some records.

Fuel economy is so low on the list of concerns for a sports car and the RX-8 has very similar mileage to 6 cylinder high output sports cars. A lighter chassis woud help it a lot too. The absolute number one thing that Mazda HAS to do if it is going to stay in the rotary business is address reliability concerns with the rotary engine. As much as it pains me to say this, if they cannot make a rotary last as long as a piston engine then they need to seriously consider if rotary cars belong in their lineup.

The other issue is picking a direction for the next rotary car. The RX-8 is a unique GT car, but not a purpose built sports car. It is too heavy, with too little torque and if they want to truly have it compete with the sports car market it needs to go on a diet and get some torque. A single turbo would do that nicely and it takes advantage of the engine's incredible ability to breathe.

Also what I would love to see for Mazda's rotary lineup is a dealer and driver education program about rotaries. I would like to go into a dealership and have them know wtf to do with my car. I would like new owners to get the proper information before they buy the car.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I meant that more as a universal generalized statement. If the next rotary is a record breaking beast, it will also be out of the price range of most of the current fan base, and that will further drive up the price they need to sell it at to avoid taking a loss on the line. Volume is where car manufacturers become profitable, and they need volume on the next rotary to help keep it alive.

100% agree, part of the way they obtain that volume is addressing reliability concerns, which can be almost entirely solved through better cooling (oil and engine), better lubrication, and a beefier ignition system that will last 60k to 100k. Also 100% agree on the dealer and driver education program prior to purchase. Dropping weight will enable them to avoid worrying about the power output.

If they start setting records anyway, that would be awesome, but their target needs to be reliable affordable fun, not the records. That is what I meant. Just like the 3. Almost no one reviews the standard 3, just the Mazdaspeed 3. But Mazda3 sales far and away beat MS3. They need to do the same thing with the next rotary. Make the reliable affordable fun rotary (light weight is a must to keep the fun element and keep it quick). At that point, they can afford to let the Mazdaspeed side of the business introduce a MS FI version that will be the one that all the magazines and armchair drivers would review and praise to the skys.

mscamp02

iTrader: (3)

^I am with you 100 percent on the two types of new RXs. One for the daily average joe, and one for the enthusiast.

I mean in all practicality if you look at just about every single other sports car out there it has a low power and a high power version.

Even your more mid to high end sports cars are like this. Take the corvette for example, it has the 3 different versions. the 6.2 the 7.0 and the 6.2 FI. All to accommodate different drivers and make most profit while still maintaining its name.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

As long as it is essentially the same chassis and engine, they can retain the profits by not requiring lots of extra tooling, and their profits will primarily come from the base version that the common middle class enthusiast can afford, while the high power version will be the one to make the name and take the ticket.

Making 2 entirely different rotaries isn't going to happen due to the cost, but 2 versions of the same rotary is their best bet.

arghx7

The 8 has a low power version ("standard power"). It's the 4 port motor, the one that came with a 5 speed manual tranny in other markets and was offered here on the automatics for the first few years. I am unsure if the 4 port is still available in markets besides the US.

skhmund

Hey in the article it said "....smaller than the current RX-8, which will go out of production in 2011."

Is that TRUE about 2011 or did I misread?

olddragger

iTrader: (3)

agree with a lot being said---so far on the 09's --so good?
1 09 engine i know off that was torn down was carboned somewhat--only had about 5K on it.
That pic of the red 2 seater--would buy that!
why not supercharge with low boost --lower compression engine, with water methenol injection (dont laugh--other cars are looking at this --seriously) and have a 2900 lb car with about 270 to the wheels. Instant success.
Maintainability is not bad at all---again seriously.
w/m helps with so many things that is rotor specific--to much to discuss here. SC is a simpler set up than a turbo and underhood heat is not as big of a concern. Plus you cant fool with the boost settings easily.
I can see a 16X low compression engine with a 8K redline, plus a 6lb boost s.c.w/m set up that is tied to a twin clutch trans. 2900 lb car with 260-270 at the rear wheels and looks like the one posted a few threads back.
it would be an instant legend.
olddragger

shazy

+4 to that rx7 picture. It looks godly!

ZumnRx8

+1 I hope is that RED RX8... dang... clean clean!

blackenedwings

If for no other reason than it doesn't address the primary concern of the rotary engine, low torque characteristic.

Mazda already has trouble selling a car people have to put a quart of oil into once every 3000 miles, are you really going to suggest they have your average consumer keep a meth tank full? Hell, I would rather have them require pre-mix, but that isn't going to happen either.

Too heavy. That is heavier than even the RX-7 was. If you are going to make a true sports car the best weapon Mazda has in their arsenal is light weight. It works for the MX-5 and would work for a rotary car as well.

That's just not true and I'm getting really tired of having to correct people who should know better.

Rotr8

iTrader: (2)

careful there Aaron Denny knows a hell of alot, he's just partial, and besides its just all in fun and theory,,,

blackenedwings

I know OD knows a lot, which is exactly my point. Everyone has a partial personal opinion that works for them, thats not a problem. I get frustrated when I see comments like that thrown around by people who know better. That was my only contention.

My torque characteristic comment clearly shows what my partial personal opinion is, but I also agree there is no such thing as one right answer. Hell, even in the new hopefully released RX-7/9 you can see a divergence of opinions about what we all hope to see in the car and we are all rotary fans with relatively similar tastes after all. Maybe that is one of the biggest challenges as an OEM is making a vehicle that pleases everyone. Gas mileage, power, weight, reliability, ease of use, and cost all perfect for everyone.

bhop

Well, if the car does end up similar to that then I'm buying... ^^ Gas mileage, I don't mind, power, reliability out of factory, weight, ease of use and cost is something I hope Mazda has a plan for.

Symbioticgenius

Since E-85 caught on the next RX should be dual tuned for Ethanol. You got your fuel economy (as far as cost goes Eth is about $.60 cheaper per gallon than premium), You got your cooling, and carbon cleansing that the rotary needs. All right there, staring us in the face. I say do it Mazda.

Oh and supercharging a Rotary does make sense because of the high RPM's it can run, but ultimately turbo is the way to go for torque, especially low end where most people complain.

Nonetheless, I'm counting on Mazda to do whatever it takes to make sure the next rotary comes out, and while I'm on the topic, let me just say F the EPA, and F emissions regulations. That is all.

Flashwing

And over $40,000 which prices it right out of it's performance range. Unless Mazda can keep the baseline cost of this car around $30,000 people are going to go for other options. Rotary purists might go for it but the population of Sevenstock isn't going to make anyone any money.

Power to weight is going to be the only real advantage that Mazda is going to have. Increased displacement on the motor will help things but otherwise it's an uphill battle.

The fact remains that unless Mazda can produce something new and fresh the rotary is going to be in a bad spot for continued production. With other manufacturers able to produce high powered 300+whp vehicles capable of 25 to 30 mpg it's going to be a tough sell.

I'd love to see a new RX7 as much as everyone else but it's a tough sell.

kartweb

Mazda is in the business to make money. They haven't made much on the rotaries. Miata's have been slowly toning their muscles over the years. There are a couple running around with turbo 2.3 engines pumped up to over 300 reliable HP. From a business perspective it wouldn't make sense to risk an underpowered sports car that has a fuel economy handicap considering the competition.

Symbioticgenius

^+1, more to the point why they should throw a rotary in a Miata.

You know what they should do. Just for shiggles, after they get things sorted, start making Miatas with Rotaries, and don't even mention it. Some with 4Sillies, and others with the 16X w\e. Just like that instant knowledge that Rotaries are no different, and awesome promotional tool. Do it in a focus group of some sort, like Windows did that Mojave\ Vista crap. Would work wonders IMHO.

Oh, why did they ever stop making the Mazdaspeed Miata?

Shoafb

No offense but if the sold me a Miata with a Rotary in it i would be PISSED!

It would kill sales as well...

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

They won't make it rotary only, too much of a solid 4 banger base, plug the Miata Cup, etc...

However, making the rotary an engine option much the way the 6 has a i4 or v6 engine option is certainly viable. I hardly think it will kill sales for the Miata.

CyberPitz

"What? They are releasing my LOVING car with a ROTARY!? How dare they taint my vehicle with the thought!? Forget Mazda, I'm going for the Mustang with a REAL motor!"

Is that how we are imagining it, or something?

Shoafb

I had an o4 Mustang Mach1. Ripping a burnout from a standstill in 2nd gear was fun as heck... ( before replacing the tires of course... ) the Miata is a hell of a lot funner to drive though.

The OP stated Mazda should throw the Rotary in there, sneak it in to be exact, without telling anyone... thus the.... I would be PISSED remark. Not because of the tainted Miata image but because I don't want to deal with a Rotary.

If they threw a piston engine in an RX and didn't tell you I would imagine you would be equally pissed.