slowredrx7

If mazda produce a 300 hp awd mps mazda 3 Rotary fans would expect a new rotary to out perform this.and remain the halo car.
One way to do this would be to have a turbocharged rotary produceing 335 kw

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

...among other things.


Anyone that believes the article is too gulible for me to argue against

OtherSyde

But they're sure they know what they're talking about!

grahamprix

I read the article and now feel the love I have for my RX-8 will end with this car, a Black 2007 AT Grand Touring with NAV. Albeit, I really don't drive it much anymore; 350 miles the past year. I am older now (71) and its getting harder to get in and out, but I really love driving it. I'm in the Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC if someone might enjoy it more than I can. I thought about listing it, but I don't have privileges to do that. I read posts, but I don't comment. Jim Graham. Text 703-966-5000

tancred

Would give me a reason to visit the stealership.

fmzambon

Personally, I think that the last article that MIGHT contain some truth regarding the upcoming Rx-7 (or whatever it will be called) is this one, due to the simple fact that it states the opposite of what most rotary enthusiasts want to hear.
If you're going to make up a piece of news to attract readers, you'd normally write what the average reader would be excited about. Hence the latest 450hp turbo rumor (or BS, depending on your point of view...). Reporting 250hp and 1200cc displacement is definitely NOT the way to excite your readers, especially after Yamamoto hinted at 300hp and 1600cc back in 2012.
Hence I think it might be something more than just a made up rumor.

Andrea.

bse50

250 equini su 950kg mi andrebbero comunque bene...

fmzambon

(answering in english for the benefit of other readers)

Yeah, 250hp on 950kg would be fantastic (think Alfa Romeo 4C).
However, given that the Rx-7 will use a lengthened version of the Mx-5 platform and given that the Mx-5 will still be quite a bit over 1000kg, I seriously doubt that the 7 could achieve that weight.

My guess is NA 2 rotor with about 250hp as an entry level model + NA 3 rotor as the performance version (around 350hp). Likely less research & development needed when compared to a NA + turbo lineup, plus Yamamoto said that one of the priorities of the project is throttle response linearity.

But first of all they need to greenlight the project: Mazda RX-7 expected in 2017 | CarAdvice

Andrea.

bse50

Given the recent advancements in internal combustion engines and energy recovery systems I doubt that Mazda could build a relevant sportscar by downsizing its engine without going "extreme".
Perhaps it will be more in the lines of the Sa22c\fc3s: a quick tourer that can make you smile.

fmzambon

That depends on the market they want to target.

• Will they go after the Toyobaru market? Then 250hp and 1250 ish kilos will be fine.
• Will they go after the Nissan Z (and the like) market? Then more power and/or less weight would be needed. Obviously removing weight gives many interesting advantages, but adding power is much easier and cheaper. Since it will likely be very difficult to make the Mx-5 derived chassis even lighter, I assume that the main performance boost has to come from additional power. A substantial weight loss would either require a much smaller car, even smaller than the Mx-5, or abundant use of exotic and expensive materials. Both of these alternatives are expensive, both for Mazda and for the end user.
• Will they go after the GTR, NSX and Supra market? Then more power WILL be needed, as I don't think it is possible to make a street legal car that's light enough to compete with such cars having only 250hp. Not without going full carbon fiber, at least.

Andrea.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

:facepalm:

250hp and 1250kg (2,755lbs) isn't the Toyobaru market. It's significantly faster.

FT86/BRZ/FRS 200hp 2,750lbs: 13.77 lbs per hp
370z 350hp 3350lbs: 13.25 lbs per hp
Theoretical 250hp 2755lb RX7: 11.02 lbs per hp

People keep REALLY underestimating how fast 250hp 2755lbs would be, and I would bet that any future RX-# would be closer to 2,500-2,600lbs, since I don't see Mazda adding much weight to the ND miata chassis with a lighter engine, and the ND is at 2,250lbs. Adding 250lbs for a lighter engine but heavier supporting suspension/brakes/etc..., and only faintly larger chassis is reasonable to me. Interiors, safety, and accessories would be all be the same as the ND, essentially, no extra weight there.

2600lb 250hp = 10.4 lbs per hp, which is on par with current 380hp 3800lb muscle cars.

fmzambon

I know that such a setup is faster than the current Toyobaru, but by the time the new Rx comes out a refreshed Toyobaru could be out as well. With the main complaint for the current Toyobaru being lack of power, one can assume that one of the upgrades could be, uh, more power. Hence the figures in my statement. Also 250hp is the lowest power figure ever mentioned for the new Rx in all of the articles I could find.
In any case I doubt the market for a new Rx could be that of the toyobaru, I just listed it as one (unlikely IMHO) of the possible alternatives.

I fear that more than that would be added by the coupe + rotary conversion. Yamamoto himself hinted at "about the Toyobaru weight" back in his 2012 interview.
By the way, I'm almost sure that the ND will not be 2250lbs. I'd rather say 2350lbs for the lightest trims.

Andrea.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

So you think that even though Mazda shed 200-400lbs for each of their Skyactive overhauls so far, you only think they can manage 100lbs for the Miata?

And you think that despite virtually all convertibles GAINING weight over their coupe versions (because of all the extra strengthening that is required for missing a light and thin hard top), that going to a coupe version would also GAIN weightt because it's gaining a hard top?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Also, I doubt the FT86 would gain much power, despite what magazines and armchair racers tend to complain about. I mean, look at all the same complaints about the RX-8, and look how much power got added there

There are a LOT of implications of more power, one being that it is no longer anywhere near the same price bracket, another being that it will come with added weight (stronger drivetrain if nothing else), etc...

Sure, it might get more powerful, but only marginally if at all. Another car from the same derivative with substantial changes like that isn't the same comparison any more. ala, Impreza vs WRX vs STI. People don't compare a car to the Impreza, and then say that the Impreza blows it out of the water because of the STI version. They compare the distinct levels separately.

77mjd

I would take 2600-2700lbs and 250 hp in a heartbeat.

fmzambon

Honestly, I cannot think of a single case in recent years where:

• The convertible was developed first, followed by the coupe
• The coupe weighted much less than the convertible
• The chassis was made out of ordinary steel (i.e: no carbon fiber tub)

That's not to say that such a thing didn't happen, just that I can't think of any example of this.
If a manufacturer develops a convertible from scratch, all of the necessary strengthenings will be integrated in the chassis, resulting in a smaller weight penalty when compared to a coupe that has been turned into a convertible.
If you try to turn such a convertible into a coupe, there is less additional weight to remove and it is more integrated in the chassis, so it's harder to remove too. A manufacturer may remove the easy to access additional weight, but leave some of the strengthenings in place. That's why I think that the weight savings from the switch to a coupe version would be less than the weight penalty for the opposite conversion.

I was thinking along the Nissan Z lines, where the 350Z originally came out with 280hp and the 370Z upped that to 320hp. 40hp difference between the base models of successive generations.
Mazda was pretty much into a corner with the Renesis: the engine was more or less maxed out in NA form, and a turbo was out due to the less than stellar reliability record, fuel consumption and emissions.

Agree with the rest, it's just that beyond a certain point it gets much easier to add power than to remove further weight.

Andrea