66Racer

I dont mean to be rude here but you guys complain about no changes TOOO Much, I dont own an rx8 yet so Im a potential buyer and I wanted to hear a turbo was coming out soon but oh well, maybe someone will leak some info soon on that


look at the Ford mustang ( Im a mustang fan). Its A VERY POPULAR car correct? Well did you guys know that since 1994-2004 the interior WAS NEARLY IDENTICAL (added cupholders in 2000 i think was one change)?????????? From 1994-1998 the exterior was the same, 99-04 same thing with MINOR changes. Its part of the automotive world. Im a Mercedes tech and the same thing happens there too. They need to make money off the Stamps and machinery that needed to be designed for that car before they can toss them out for a new model.

I just wish Mazda and others would be more open about these changes, but with cars like the RX8, If they release that there will be a turbo rx8 in 2 years, I bet the MAJORITY of enthusiasts would wait and they would lose a lot of sales. Rather than someone buying the rx8 because they know nothing about a turbo version in the works, then later trading it in when the turbo rx8 is released. Im sure it will come, its a matter of time, thats all, lol

Sorry guys, but try not to take for granted a good thing

bascho

If Mazda is truly pumping tons of cash into rotary engine R&D......the goal is probably fuel efficiency and not power. Would anyone here be happy if Mazda was able to crank out an actual 250 hp at the flywheel (as originally promised) and had 210-215 at the rear wheels (like most vehicles with that hp rating).....BUT the car now gets an advertised 15mpg city and 20mpg hwy? Mazda cannot add power at the expense of fuel efficiency with current gas prices. I think if they can't see results with rotary power soon that the rotary will be removed from Mazda's 'performance vehicles'......and to some extent already has. In the time of the FD, you didn't see a 626 that was faster off the line.......or a 323 that was the fastest car in the line-up like today's Mazdaspeed6 and Mazdaspeed3. Hell, the CX7 is very close to the RX8 in 0-60.....that would be like the Navajo lining up next to the FD and hanging with it

The hybrid rotary is even more disappointing in terms of performance. No, I think Mazda may continue to develop the rotary......but it won't be for their flagship performance car.

I will admit that without changing a thing, the Renesis would do very nicely in a 2000lb car along the lines of the Elise. Since they already sell so few of them, why not bump the price up another $10K and make this thing a true track queen......because it's virtually useless everywhere else. Bad mpg, bad 0-60, bad 4-person comfort, bad paint, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love my 8 and the way it looks and feels......but in 18 months when the lease is up, Mazda will still be offering the same car that I just had while every other company has added creature comforts, power and handling.....and better mpg to their offerings.

BlueRenesis82

^ where are these problems that you mention? Also the sales thing has been discussed to death, but I can't ever recall seeing actual sales figures

RotaryManiac

yes

bascho

Not me. The Sky redline and Solstice GXP will have 260 hp available at the dealers this year.....and they will get better fuel economy and probably hand the RX8 it's *** on the track. Imagine what they might have in 2008. The Civic SI has 200 hp this year and gets over 30mpg.....imagine what that car will have in 2008. The 350Z has 300hp right now......how about 2008? Hyundai is making a shitload of money right now off of their extremely successful products. I have a feeling will see a much more powerful and competent Tiburon variant/replacement by 2008. Mazda will not be able to match the rotary against piston engine competitors with regards to power-to-fuel economy, which will become increasingly important over the next decade. The small differences in performance that can really only be felt on a track have very little meaning to most people. I for one will happily give up a little cornering ability for power and fuel efficiency. I can always add suspension mods......you can rarely do anything about fuel consumption except make it worse.

Please don't think that I am in the minority in my opinion on the matter.....just look at the sales for the RX8 over the last 3 years.

MP3Guy

You make some good points here, but too many people make a point of "bad 0-60" times. Does it really matter on the street? When I was of a certain age, I pratically committed 1/4 mile times to memory- the rest of the car barely mattered. But people don't look at a car so one dimensionally. In fact, I think it is practically pointless, except for bragging rights.

As far as "4 person" comfort, no coupe is comfortable for rear seat occupants, unless you're willing to buy bigger- a lot bigger. If you need that, there are over two dozen decent sedans out there to choose from-if that's what you want.

And the mileage thing? Compared to the 350Z, it isn't much worse, or at least not a deal breaker. "Looks and feel" are what car ownership is about- not statistics.

saturn

But prove that the reason the sales are so bad is because of the fuel issue? You can't. No one knows why the RX-8 isn't selling as well in the US as it is in other countries. I think most people would say it's because it's not advertised for crap and doesn't have the power to compete in the current horsepower wars.

Poor fuel economy is certainly going to make people think twice about a car, but good fuel economy isn't going to get a person off their couch and into a showroom to look at a sports car. Overall performance appeal is going to.

Even if Mazda adds FI it's really going to have to do a good job advertising to make people forget about cars like the 350Z. Maybe they'll manage to steal away customers from the MX-5, S2000, Sky, etc but no one who really wants an Evo/STi or 350Z is going to really consider the RX-8 and all its quirkiness unless it has a massive power gain. We here love the quirkiness (9k rpm, exterior styling, rotary engine) of the 8 so we think of it as a plus, but so many others just want to go fast.

In short, fuel economy didn't kill the 8 -- I did.

mike1324a

The sales of the 8 in the last 3 years are like the sales of any average sports car. the first year or so the sales are huge and then slowly drops until there is a model change or it gets terminated. I havent actually seen the figures but im sure the 350z and s2k and so on have a similar sales pattern. Id say the Evo and STI are even simiar but you have to take into account the amout of ricers that are dying to get ther hands on one. But even then its probably the same patern but since they make changes to them every 2 years or so it keeps the sales up by saying hey we now have new stuff. It all comes down to statistics and patterns and in the long run, the numbers may be different but the actual trends are very similar.

I like what im hearing from Zoom44 and Rotary Crazy. Since i dont really have any info to add to theirs i wont speculate because i dont want to add anything false but i do like what im hearing

bascho

As long as the RX car is in the $20K range you will have plenty of young people (20-30 years old) that can afford the car and care very much about 0-60 times. Why, because that is the only performance that is used 100% of daily commutes. Even if you drive the twisties to work, you still start the commute from 0 mph. For 95% of people commute is does not matter how the RX8 brakes into a curve......unless you are about to miss a turn-off

I agree that the RX8 is not much worse than the 350Z on gas.....but the Z has 300hp and can compete with the RX8 is every other catagory except the number of occupants it can carry.

I also agree about how a 4 seater coupe (RX8) is not supposed to be comfortable for 4 adults.......so I say, why limit this sports car by trying to accomdate 4 people? Insurance rates? That's about the only reason I picked the RX8 over other cars. 98% of the time it's just me in the car.....the other 2% it's me and one other person.

I agree about the look and feel as well....I love the styling of the RX8.....and the FD for that matter. Mazda's problem with the 8 is not the design.

bascho

I can't prove that fuel economy is hurting the sales of the RX8......or any other vehicle for that matter. I can speculate though that all vehicles designed with performance in mind and have lousy fuel econ are having a tough year. Even all the SRT vehicles are now eligible for DCX's "Employee pricing" due to extremely poor sales. Is gas to blame?....it's a reasonable enough assumption.....as good a reason as "crappy advertising" is.

As far as you thinking fuel economy is not a motivator for purchase......I would have to say you might be right with regards to 2005 sales......but I think 2006 sales are definitely being impacted by fuel economy.

Don't get me wrong....I really think the RX8 is one of the greatest cars ever built for it's price point......but I don't think the rotary technology can deliver for tomorrows expectations of performance AND fuel efficiency. I hope Mazda proves me wrong.

bascho

Yes....but typically those low volume versions are the baddest machines those companies make. The STI is Subies fastest whip.....same with the EVO for Mitsu. The 350Z is the fastest thing from Nissan (in the USA) and the S2K is Honda's mean machine for the price point. The RX8 is Mazda's 3rd most powerful vehicle!!! I have nothing against low volume sports cars.....when they are the envy of other customers walking into the dealer. It's hard to be the baddass in the RX8 when someone's mom can pull up next to you in a Mazdaspeed6 loaded with all her kids and groceries and still leave your *** from a dig.

Mazda......get it right or give it up!

saturn

Well, you'd be quite wrong. I'll leave this as an exercise to the reader as it's been talked about on the forum before.

zoom44

i dont understand the mazdaspeeed arguement. its mazda SPEED. so it can be faster than the regular version of other cars. my wife(a mom) can pull up to next to a mazda6 with a load of groceries and the kid in the back etc and kill it from a dig. when there is a mazdaspeed version of the 8 then it will be warrented to compare it to the other madaspeed cars. its not to compare the speed version of one against the non speed lineup.

its like comparing the SVT focus to a plain mustang. or an SRT neon to .. .. the regular crossfire etc

Astrox

I am relatively new to this group, but I have owned my RX-8 for quite a while. I may be a little (or lot) older than many of you (I am 42) so my perspective may be of a different demographic profile than many of you. I have been an avid sports car enthusiast for many years and owned many different cars and belonged to several different car clubs, thus I am speaking with this experience in mind. I believe the strength of the RX-8 is it's weakness, and that is it uniqueness. The realities/myth/ignorance of rotary engines prevent people from buying it.

Generally, people are "leary" of non familiar technologies. Think about the "typical" Amerivan Block. Most of the vehicles are very similar, the RX-8 is kind of like the oddball -and many people are not comfortable with that. I believe this along with the fact that not everyone can work on it, is really what hurts this car's sales.

Remember the Miata isn't the strongest 0-60 performer either, but it has done quite well. I believe it is viewed as a more "conventional" car. BTW, I may not be a typical buyer, but I purchased my RX-8 over the 350Z, I liked the driving characyeristics of the 8 over the Z. Just my opinion.

Sharkoil

I'd also readily admit it does frustrate me to see th mazda speed6 with better performance capabilities or even comparable stats to the 8. To escalate matters, I saw an episode of either Fifth or Top gear (i forget now) where there is a mazda3 in the works which will also outperform the 8.

When users on the board post about the perforance numbers in comparison to the Z and other coupes, I think most of us do it thinking about what lies ahead for the rotary platform. It would appear as if the future is dim, and I have a strong suspicion mazda will not get too many repeat buyers. If you buy another 8 you have to be compelled that you will see improvements on the things you know your current vehicle lacks. And as much as we love our 8s we know it does have its shortcomings.

legokcen

Look at the other recent rotary, the RX-7. Came out in '79. Cosmetic and minor changes in '81 and '84, with a 13B in '84. 5 Years before a power increase. The 13B had already been out before that, albeit with a carb. The Turbo II came out as an anniversary to the RX-7, and then there were two versions. The aftermarket really doesn't have too many viable and reliable options except for the recent ones from PTP (can't remember if that was the one).

How many years was the Mazda3 or Mazda6 out before the big changes? I'm really asking here, not being sarcastic.

zoom44

sharkoil they started production of the mazdaspeed3 last month.

toxin440

Hmm I can kinda see that, ive only had my 8 since last october and love it, however it does kinda **** me off over the fact that mazda's "Top of the line car" is being out done by 3's and 6's coming out.

I plan on having this car for a while, as much as it costs and with the money I'm putting into it for mods... i know a loaded MS6 costs on par with the 8 but it's sad to see no option for factory turbo on the 8 when they tubo other cars from the factory.

depending on what mazda comes out with in the next 5-6 years will influence if I "stay in the mazda family" I'm very happy with my RX8 as it stands but I think some of the things Mazda is doing with their product line is "odd". I have honestly never seen a commerical FOR the RX8 in the 3? years its' been out?

Oh well

zoom44

those other cars came out first

saturn

I don't believe that's true. The first Mazda3 didn't roll off the assembly line until December 2003 whereas there were RX-8's delivered in June 2003.

zoom44

yeah you are right. i keep thinking the 3 hit before the 8.

Japan8

But the Mustang GT is still faster than a SVT Focus. It was faster than a SVT Contour. It was faster than a Taurus SHO. The F150 Lightening was close though... but it was only a 2 seater and automatic. The SVT Cobra and now the GT500 versions of the Mustang are the fastest thing in the Ford lineup. As a matter of fact, the only thing faster that's been sold by Ford in the last 20 years or more is the Ford GT.

How about GM? The Vette has always been faster than the Camaro. Camaro Z28 and SS was still faster than Impala SS.

Japan8

True. Ike and I had this discussion. The RX-8 may have been first by a few months, but the Mazda3 is a MUCH bigger seller and this the Mazdaspeed3 has better sales potential than a Mazdaspeed RX-8.

zoom44

but the impala ss was faster than the non z28 camaro. camaro rs in 96 came with 200hp. the impala ss was 260hp all mentioned are faster than the crossfire.

saturn

But the MAZDASPEED 8 would totally pwn n00bs would it not?