devMan

a couple of days before our car came in, my wife and i drove down to a mazda dealership and asked if any rx-8s had come in that we could look at in person.

the salesperson said "yeah, but it's out of commission right now!". it came in and had some problems with the transmission and starter.

i said, "I don't care if we can't drive it, we just want to see one!" He said sure and took us back to the service bay while he started saying something about the car locking in second gear and the starter falling out. i seriously started doubting the quality of the car at that point.

in the service bay the 8 was suspended in air halfway to the ceiling with the starter hanging out.

There was a huge crack all the way around the housing for the transmission, the gears were worn off the starter, and the salesperson said there were several gears that were torn up inside the tranny.

we heard later from a salesperson down the road at another dealer that the sales manager had taken the car out and supposedly performed a 9600 rpm clutch dump while driving at high speed in a low gear. apparently he tried to lie about it, and a tech from Mazda plugged into the ECU and found out what really happened.

Amazingly enough the guy still has his job!!!

midniteblue

dumb *** sales manager...although i dont think he should be fired, i do think he should be demoted because he is clearly showing a lack of respect for property, and property that could be for a potential customer mind you....

DonG35Miata

Go buy the car for cheap. It's been abused, after all..

Superfan

Even if the bell housing fractured around the starter I still don't see how it could have fallen out. How can the starter strip its gear if it wasn't engaged with the flywheel?

Gyro

I'm with you Superfan. The whole thing doesn't sound right.

chikai

I would fire him on the spot. that is flagrant abuse of private property. talk about poor break in procedures...

Smoker

So what you are saying is that the guy shifted into a Low gear( 1st gea maybe) at high speed and then just dumped the clutch in right ?

Pardon my lack of tech. knowledge, but exactly what damage would that do and how ?? how did the starter got destroyed because of it ?

devMan

I don't know the whole story, but the salespeople at the other dealer and at the dealer it happened at said he was travelling at a high rate of speed in a lower gear and pushed the clutch in and revved to 9600 rpm for several seconds and then let the clutch out. I'm sure he was doing more than just that and I'll never find out the full story!

No telling what he was doing, but the Mazda engineer that plugged into the ECU apparently was able to see everything that had happened to the car ( as far as speed, rpms, etc.)

I saw the starter and there were no teeth left on it and the tranny housing was seriously cracked. I thought it was the car I ordered because it looked identical.

The salespeople said that he had done $8,000 damage and that it would not be fixed until next week because they had to get the parts from Japan.

They did not say if it was a dealer car or customer car, but when I picked up my car they did point the guy out to me and he was extremely embarassed!

Superfan

Here's what I think could have happened. The guy had the engine reved up to 9600 either in or out of gear. At which point he turned the key to the ignition position. The starter attempted to engage at which point it couldn't mesh with a fly wheel at 9600 rpm. This could have caused the starter to break it's two bolts that pass through the bell housing into the engine block. As the starter broke off it cracked the bell housing.

If I was this guys employer I would send send him to the shop and have him fix the damage if he wants to keep his job.

Smoker

Hmmm..... That certain sounds like a very possible cause of the damage. The question is why did he try to start a engine at 9600RPM ??? Hmmm, maybe the ECU cut the fuel and for a split second he thought the engine died and grab the key right way ?? who knows.


Oh yea, on a side note, please make a note of the VIN of that damaged RX-8 (since it looks identical to yours) and make sure they won't give you that one when they call you in to pick up your car, just in case.

Haze

Nah, I see it this way.

He was revving at the limit, which is much quiter than in other cars right. He shifted DOWN at 9,600 RPMs not realizing how fast the engine was turning, which caused the transmission to literally explode wen he dumped the clutch cracking the bell housing. The starter is at the back of the engine connected to the fly wheel. They are often physically mounted on the clutch housing, which probably cracked as well letting the starter fall out of the car. Starter is probably fine.

As for starting the starter while the engine is turning, especially at that pace, the starter would never engage, even slightly. it would just grind on the outside of the gears so that isn't the problem.

This guy just has no idea how to drive or respect a car. He should have gone to the Rev-it-up event. They would have explained that dumping the clutch while moving only succeeds in breaking you away from the road. What a Jack-***.

-H

zoom44

i don't know about the sterter but maybe he was trying to toe-heel to downshift but didn't just blip it but mashed the gas pedal down and then dropped the clutch.

MTI

Having been a Field Engineer for an auto company other than Mazda - the "story" is rarely the "true story".

The facts are only what you see, and not what you are told. In most cases when severe physical damage occurs, someone is going to attempt to create a reasonable "story" as to why it is an accident, or why it wasn't his/her fault...and most times there's an incentive to try to use warranty to cover the cost of repair.

In this case because of the extent of physical damage to a new and unregistered automobilie, the dealer must disclose the damage to any potential buyer of that particular automobile.

Slims8

In my opinion it really doesn't matter, nor should it affect the price. There is at least a 75% chance the transmission and/or clutch was going to "explode" anyway.

quack_p

Two things:

(A) This guy is lucky to have a job. He must be related to the owner because anyone else would have been instantly fired.

(2) This dealer can't sell this car as a new car, can they?! That would be extremely unethical and make all Mazdas sold by this dealership suspect. Frankly, I wouldn't touch a car at this dealership knowing they allow their staff to drive the cars this way. How do we know he didn't take every other RX-8 out for a ride? Which dealership is this?

Nemesis8

iTrader: (3)

I sure hope that all the 8's sitting on lots across the country, have not been abused by the sales people. Showing off in a new car by dumping the clutch or grinding the gears, could be a source of some of the failures we hear about after an inocent buyer comes in and takes delivery. They do not know if their particular car was abused until it is too late.

Maybe the dealers should have only one RX8 per dealership that is used for demos. And this one car is properly broke in, and has all the TSB's correctly done. That way, the customer has a positive experience, and buys his or her 8 knowing that the only miles on it were from loading and off loading. Just a thought - Mazda are you reading this?

quack_p

Are you serious?! The only thing the dealership should be doing with a brand new car is moving it around the lot. How do you figure there was a 75% chance of the tranny being thrashed? If this guy hadn't been driving like an idiot, the car would be fine.

Mikelikes2drive

If you had the opportunity to have rx-8s at your disposal, you wouldnt experiment with em and go on joy rides? I dont blame the man, but it's kinda dumb to dump it at 9600

Tayninh

The salesman should show pics and sell a book entitled "What happens when you go max revs and drop in the clutch" or "How to get rid of excess inventory" I think after the damage was just done, someone then tried to start the car and ruined the starter teeth as well.

G8rboy

Umm... no. It's called being responsible and accountable... I'd fire that guy in a heartbeat.

StewC625

Ages ago (1985) I was working in sales for a Porsche dealership. I sold a 928S on a Thursday, and the customer came to take delivery at 9:00 AM on Friday morning - gorgeous jet black 928S.

At noon, the guy's car arrives back at the dealership on a flatbed truck, dripping a big puddle of oil out of the bottom of the engine. The guy is ranting about the quality of the motor and how it "just broke".

We put it on a lift and the oil pan had several outward-facing rod dents in it and a front-to-back split in the pan that was leaking oil.

Well, even back then, Porsches had a rudimentary ECU that retained the highest rev's. The techs got the revs out of the ECU and discovered the engine had been revved to 10,200 RPM - this on a car with a 7000 RPM redline and no rev limiter.

Confronted with that evidence, the guy confessed that not more than a mile from the dealership, he pulled alongside a guy in a 911, took off to drag race him and missed his 2-3 shift completely - revving the engine to the destruction point.

Car abuse isn't only the domain of stupid dealership people.

Tayninh

Actually you would think a sales person would be extra careful with the product as its their livelyhood. That's why I don't like demos that salesmanagers take home for year. You just never know how they treated it.

jtimbck2

Holy thread resurrection!

DMRH

Since the 6-speed box is basically from the 1800cc NB-MX-5, they wern't meant to tolerate abuse like the 5-speed from the FD RX-7 (92-02). Its interesting to learn this in a morbid sought of way what the limits are.

No doubt the stripped teeth from the starter motor & ring gear where from the attempts to start the engine after the major clutch dump had stretched/cracked everything out of alignment as the bellhousing cracked. Incomplete meshing teeth will do that every time.

I would not fire the guy as it was a mistake & he would probably deserve a chance. 2nd time around & thats a different story....!!

D MENAC 7

Most likely, as in Illinois, the car can be sold as new until it has been titled to an actual owner. I have been through this question with my "NEW" demo RX-8. The dealership can take a vehicle, drive it all over the place, put thousands of miles on it and still sell it as new. Unethical, yes, illegal, no. It would still be titled as new. Unless you see it roll out of the assembly plant, get hoisted onto a ship, unloaded at the dock, transported to your dealership and you sleep beside it the whole way, there is no telling what anyone involved in these steps has done with your RX-8.