Rotary Nut

I was just mulling this over in my head as I was warming my 8 up at the airfield this evening with an outside temp of 36 degreesF.

I know that flooding is a prevelant issue with the 8 but I was just wondering which is more suseptible to it the MT or the AT?

khoney

No fair! There were two valid answers for me! I went for the non-smartass one.

Racer X-8

I'm sure you're aware that you'll have to discard the posted percentages & do some arithmatic kickulations on the side.

pp13bnos

Never flooded on me...but there was one time that it almost started, kept cranking at it fired. It was around 500 miles into the breakin. I had'nt driven it hard at that point, and the battery seemed to be a little weak. So I was thinking it was a case of a marginal battery and some dirty plugs. Since then not a problem. knock on wood. CJ

MoparREVolution

Hello, Newb here.....what's this "flooding" I've been reading about?

You have to let the 8 warm up before shutting down? What kind of crap is this?

I'm planning on buying one soon, but I don't want 1 if I have to put up with this.

Pappy

Howdy,

Just thought I'd let you know that I contacted Mazda Australia about the "Short Trip Driving Procedure" which is being issued in the USA (faxed them a copy) and was informed that it didn't apply to Australian spec vehicles.

Mazda AU wouldn't elaborate on the reasons but alluded to there being some fundamental difference with the vehicles. In anycase, I'm not following this procedure and often have to move my car short distances while cold & just started, such as in/out of my driveway, without any flooding occuring.

Maybe Mazda USA should have a word to Mazda AU and find out why it isn't an issue down-under.

Pappy.

8_wannabe

For heaven's sake, flooding is NOT "a prevelant issue." In another poll, only 2 or 3 people said they have flooded more than once. Despite my requests they failed to identify themselves so I don't even know if its true or they are just troublemakers.

Even conceding that it's true, the small number of people who have flooded more than once leads me to conclude this is a behavioral problem, not a car problem. In other words, if you are burned once you then behave the way your're supposed to and you don't flood anymore. Follow the damn directions! The rest of us, who have never flooded, either follow the owners manual, or ignore the problem altogether and just don't fall within the bell curve which predicts they're not likely to flood no matter what they do. Am I the only one here who understand statistics?

Who takes issue with this analysis? I've posted it in several threads and no one has said I'm wrong. I understand the emotion and inconvenience when you flood and not minimizing its a pain when it happens to you. Hell, I chipped my flywheel and been without my car for 8 days. It's a pain in the *** to me, but in the larger picture chipped flywheels are not a huge RX-8 issue. I contend the same holds for flooding. Who here has flooded more than once!!??

MEGAREDS

I will spare everyone posting my ugly picture again, but I think flooding qualifies as "a prevalent issue" no matter how one defines that term. As of my writing this, 16% of all people polled say they've flooded at least once, and these numbers are likely only to go up as time passes. I am very curious about (1) why the short move procedure is not in the North American manual and (2) why the Australain members are not getting the special booklet telling them not to perform short moves. I really want to know the answer to the second question.

As I said in other places, at some point in time soon I'm going to ask Mazda in a letter for a formal answer. I'm hoping very much that I get a thoughtful response. I've given them my trust when I wrote my check and I want them to keep it, but they've got to earn it on this one by being open in explaining the problem better and crafting a universal policy in how they will respond when it happens to RX-8 owners. As someone pointed out in another thread, flooding is a huge problem for those who live far from dealerships. It is potentially a major headache for those who must valet park.

addendum: I know I am repeating myself, but in case anyone reads this in isolation I don't want to give the wrong impression. I agree that a "reasonable" response may be that flooding is the problem of those 16% of us who have been so stupid as to have done it, and not Mazda's problem. We may need to stand up and pay our own towing and mechanic's bills. I just think Mazda needs to stand up and say that if it is really their position, since it will apparently affect at least 16% of their North American buyers.

jonalan

8_wannabe - I agree with you 100%.

MEGAREDS - I can't say I disagree with you, either.

There seems to be two distinct sides to this debate. Those who have flooded their cars, feel this is a prevelant issue. Those who have not (yet) flooded their cars (and I hope we never do), feel that this is a non-issue.

8_wannabe

LOL, you should be a politician. :D Keep in mind, until a couple days ago I thought my car was flooded, and even though I had it towed to the dealer I hadn't changed my tune that this isn't a big deal. I have since learned it wasn't flooding, it's a broken flywheel but I am also saying broken flywheels aren't a big deal either. Obviously, it's a big deal to my particular car at this particular moment, but not overall to the RX-8 product line.

pp13bnos

You can't leave us hanging like that....you gotta tell us how it broke. I mean where you pounding the gears....holding the car at like 9,400 rpms for 60 miles....moving the car using the starter. :D I'm just making stuff up here, but non the less, I'm still interested. CJ

8_wannabe

None of the above! I don't do that stuff. This is why I'm not upset by the "lost" horsepower; I don't push the car that hard. I don't drop the clutch, grind gears, etc etc. In another thread someone surmised what might have happened, I let my brother drive. I was in the righthand seat. He pulled up to the light and I said, hey you didn't clutch! (he hasn't driven stick in a long, long time.) It sounded stalled and he turned the key and everything seemed ok. But what if it hadn't really stalled? Then he woulda ground the starter. It was like 3 or 4 days later that the starter/flywheel failed.

I hope this doesn't become another "flooding" issue where everyone start to sweat that their flywheel is gonna break. "Hopefully" it's just my bad luck. If I hear anything more I'll be sure to let you know. BTW, I took the car in Friday. Today (Weds) the dealer said he got the new flywheel. what the heck, do you think they flew it in from Japan? Cuz otherwise it shoulda come overnight from Irvine, like 70 miles north of here. So that's in, plus they've changed the oil pan, now they're checking out the cycling a/c. I sent them some good links from this forum including someone else's service ticket that talked about changing the "amplifier" on the a/c to keep it from clutching in and out. My dealer seems open to investigating this stuff, but until then he'd never heard of any a/c problem with the '8.

MJG

8-Wannabe - The flooding is a real issue as it happened to me in early November. Started car after it was left out in 20 degree weather all day. Car initially started and ran for about 2 seconds and then stalled. Would not start again. At that time I had never heard of a flooding problem. Car had to be towed to dealer, dealer couldn't start car, plugs had to changed etc.

Since that time I have found much info about the flooding problem and am very careful to let car warm up before turning off. However, I feel this can be a significant inconvenience sometimes - not necessarily the warming up, but always being concerned that someone could start car, pull it out of garage and turn it off without knowing about the flooding issue. What about a valet at a garage? And there are bound to be other circumstances over the years.

I strongly believe this is an issue that Mazda has to address and correct. When you buy a new car for this price you shouldn't have to be concerned about whether the car will start or not.

8_wannabe

I understand where you're coming from, but let me ask... have you flooded since? I doubt it.

There are a coupla real issues here. One is adequate education of drivers either via the owners manual or the salesman. Truthfully, I don't expect a salesman to make a big point of this, not if he expects to sell many cars. Related to this is overall unfamiliarity of us owners with the quirks of rotaries. If the new spark plugs truly fix the problem -- and thus far, it seems like they do -- then why doesn't Mazda just include them from the factory?

I know I'm fighting a losing battle here, especially with someone who had to endure the trauma of flooding. Perhaps I should argue instead that this problem will get better, not worse, as we learn about our cars and upgrade spark plugs. Maybe someday this will be a thing of the past. I tend to endure short-term inconvenience if I can see long-term benefits, and that's why I keep saying this is not a big deal. A few months ago, people were returning their cars and consulting lawyers due to "lost" horsepower. Well, that hp is still gone and guess what -- it's barely mentioned in the forum anymore. Sure, people are buying carzoomer's ECU patch but they woulda done that anyway to gain a bit more power or torque. And I predict the flooding thing will fade with time; it's just the issue of the moment. A lotta people have said rotaries are and were always subject to flooding, but a lot of '7 owners have logged in to say they were never even aware of the problem during the years they owned the car. So who knows? I suspect the same eventually will be true of the '8.

If anyone has ever flooded more than once, I sure wish you would identify yourself. Not a single person in this forum has 'fessed up to that. Another reason why I say this really isn't a big deal.

Mat

8_wannabe, I respect your thoughtful replies, but I slightly disagree with you.

I don't think flooding more than once is required to qualify this as a real issue. I am not sure if the RX-7 had the same shutdown requirements, and I am assuming it did, but the RX-8 is, I think, aimed at a much wider market, and those errors are bound to happen. Alot.

Maybe right now it didn't happen to anyone more than once. Hell, if I flooded once I would be so paranoid about it that no one would touch my car ever (if that's realistic), and I would make sure I preheat the car, etc. But being afraid to flood it again alone is already a huge downside.

But the car has been available for what, less than 6 months now? Those problems are bound to reappear in time. Maybe you won't ever flood it, but I think it won't be the case for a good proportion of the drivers of this "mainstream" rotary. If the words "CAUTION: COULD FLOOD" was written all over the car and the owner's manual then I wouldn't make such a deal out of this, and it's obviously unrealistic, but the reality is that alot of unsuspecting people are thinking about buying or bought this car.

What is even more interesting are the reports of the AU version being fine at shutdown, and the conflicting reports as to if it is or not covered under warranty for the US models. I'm very intrigued by that.

Wouldn't you agree that, for general usage, this is the single most annoying issue?

AF-RX8

I had a 85 Rx7 (new at the time) and a 94 Rx7 TT . . . neither car had this flooding problem and I never heard of it until I had a RX8 owner tell me about it and then read this forum.

I agree some of the others that this problem MUST be addressed. I can't understand how there are 100's of different make & model cars being produce for the model year 2004 and not one other car has this problem.

It is unreasonable to get stranded for this reason in todays world ... sorry but I really find it hard to beleive that you spent $30k+ on a car and are willing to accept the fact that you might flood your car and get stuck.

gingersrus

Mat, you have hit on exactly my feelings about this issue. It is not so much that the car is no good because of potential flooding. The REAL problem is that Mazda is keeping it their "dirty little secret" and not making sure that the owners are aware. One little paragraph in the "qwick start guide" is not enough. It does not even say anything about flooding - just that "warming up engine improves engine life". It does not tell you that you MUST not shut it down cold - only that "the following procedure SHOULD be followed...". I talked to my salesman about it today and he told me during their tech training they were not told about flooding but only that REPEATEDLY shutting down cold would eventually foul the plugs. I really think that he would have told me after the sale was closed if he had known how important it was. After all, he does not want his customers to be pissed at him!

Mazda needs to come clean and make it very clear to owners or those who are not as fortunate as I was (reading this forum) will get stuck with a car that has to be towed, at least one time, until they understand the risk of cold shutdowns.

rieskame

The dealership says that they flood cars all the time when they come off the truck.

Ive flooded it once, while pulling into the garage to wax the car after washing. Nobody at the dealership mentioned this an neither did the manual. Will not happen again because i will dump this POS if i dont take a huge loss. The service at the dealership in Westfield Indiana is the worst i have ever experienced. Had milky oil, and they charged me for the oil change (only 2000 miles). Guess what, milky oil is still there. Barely starts now, but of course the dealership could not find anything wrong. Had a nick in a silver painted interior piece when delivered, but instead of replacing it with a new piece like they should have, they just did a **** poor touch up paint job on it. Told me that all GM fuel injected cars will flood, just BS. 16 MPG highway is just the last straw.

Mazda/Ford was the only brand that i would not have gotten a manufacturers discount from the factory through work, and boy did i learn the hard way.

I definately would not recommend this car to anyone, and has been much more painful than any curvy road can overcome.

8_wannabe

Ouch, you got a bum deal all around. Really sorry to hear you're so unhappy with the '8. No chance you're gonna try to let it "grow on you?" You can be pretty assured you'll take a big loss if you try to unload it now.

Nubo

On what basis are you suggesting that the probability of flooding amongst owners follows a gaussian distribution?

8_wannabe

Based on this. I predicted a steep bell curve. Turn the page sideways and see what you get, particularly when you add the first two answers together (both represent those who never flooded.) When you see how sharply it tails off, the chance of a person flooding multiple times is vanishingly small.

Mat

Nubo, pretty much everything on this planet falls into normal distrubution (or at least can be approximated by it), hence the gaussian curve. Don't be too surprised, and read about the central limit theorem

RX-8 friend

"Why don't the Australian's have the flooding issue?"

They don't have winter? Anyone flooded in summer?

8_wannabe

Australian's basically don't have problems period. And if they do, they just get drunk and fight and then it doesn't matter. What a great life...:D

8_wannabe

Dealer called today; car is ready for pickup. Flywheel replaced (he called it a ring gear I think.) It was the first they'd seen or heard of broken; I'm sure it will happen to all of you since it happened to me. Just kidding!

During the phone call they put the service manager on and he discussed the flooding problem with me in detail. Even though my problem wasn't flooding, he said they were taking pains to educate every RX-8 owner about this to make sure you don't shut down cold. His advice was right on the mark and I didn't let on that I already knew about this. I appreciate his attitude... perhaps a little late, but they're trying to be upfront about it now.