True or False: all RX-8 engines are slowly being damaged…
11-04-2006, 06:52 AM
#1
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True or False: all RX-8 engines are slowly being damaged…
(This is just about the U.S. RX-8.)
Someone on here suggested that, due to for whatever reason or combination of reasons (ECU programming for N. America not perfected until recently, having to meet U.S. emissions regulations, etc.), all pre-2007 Renesis engines in U.S. RX-8's are, perhaps, slowly being damaged, and the current recall will only identify and replace the most damaged engines—letting "slightly" damaged engines "pass" the recall undetected.
Is this true or false?
Someone on here suggested that, due to for whatever reason or combination of reasons (ECU programming for N. America not perfected until recently, having to meet U.S. emissions regulations, etc.), all pre-2007 Renesis engines in U.S. RX-8's are, perhaps, slowly being damaged, and the current recall will only identify and replace the most damaged engines—letting "slightly" damaged engines "pass" the recall undetected.
Is this true or false?
Last edited by New Yorker; 11-04-2006 at 10:34 AM.
11-04-2006, 07:03 AM
#2
1. No single ECU tunning is perfect. Alot of people has no problems at all. some even reach and got over 100K miles already.
2. Our 8's tunning is a bit different than the rest of the world, yes its because of emissions.
3. Nope, its still the same design. Where did you get this idea from ? This engine is still new (3-4 years is still new). People still trying to find the true power of the engine. Mazda spent days and nights to try to make this engine. Its N/A and be able to reach 13B-REW's HP power I think its pretty impressive.
2. Our 8's tunning is a bit different than the rest of the world, yes its because of emissions.
3. Nope, its still the same design. Where did you get this idea from ? This engine is still new (3-4 years is still new). People still trying to find the true power of the engine. Mazda spent days and nights to try to make this engine. Its N/A and be able to reach 13B-REW's HP power I think its pretty impressive.
11-04-2006, 08:07 AM
#3
Rotary Crawfish
Well all engines are being damaged when running if ya wanna get down to the meat of the matter.
Please state clearly where you received this information, I for one would like to know the basis for this claim.
Please state clearly where you received this information, I for one would like to know the basis for this claim.
11-04-2006, 08:13 AM
#4
We will not know if the ECU programing is perfect or not for quite some time. This is why many continue to premix.
And as you already know, the recall does NOT properly test all cars. They only go into in depth testing with cars who have reported similar issues in the past, or currently show an issue that might be attributed to incorrect metering of oil. This means if your car is damaged but shows no signs of it yet, you will not be getting a new engine even though you eventually will show symptoms down the road.
And as you already know, the recall does NOT properly test all cars. They only go into in depth testing with cars who have reported similar issues in the past, or currently show an issue that might be attributed to incorrect metering of oil. This means if your car is damaged but shows no signs of it yet, you will not be getting a new engine even though you eventually will show symptoms down the road.
11-04-2006, 08:35 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by cajunrx8
Well all engines are being damaged when running if ya wanna get down to the meat of the matter.
Please state clearly where you received this information, I for one would like to know the basis for this claim.
11-04-2006, 08:36 AM
#6
Shifty Bastard.
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Put it this way.
We have no engine problems here. We don't have your EPA. We don't use your oil. We don't use your ECU programming. We haven't had your recent engine recall.
We have no engine problems here. We don't have your EPA. We don't use your oil. We don't use your ECU programming. We haven't had your recent engine recall.
11-04-2006, 08:39 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by New Yorker
It's merely something someone—I don't remember who—suggested right here—I think I read it somewhere in the huge "recall" thread.)
11-04-2006, 08:39 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by Gomez
Put it this way.
We have no engine problems here. We don't have your EPA. We don't use your oil. We don't use your ECU programming. We haven't had your recent engine recall.
We have no engine problems here. We don't have your EPA. We don't use your oil. We don't use your ECU programming. We haven't had your recent engine recall.
11-04-2006, 08:53 AM
#10
Shifty Bastard.
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This is what swoope quoted me as saying :
I posted the above in response to the hysteria that was being whipped up in the Australian Forum when guys down under read of your pending engine recall. Time has proven me right.....we didn't get that recall.
Originally Posted by Gomez
I wouldn't assume this issue will affect us here.
The US cars have had local engine issues for quite a while now. You need to understand the differences between the US and Australian spec vehicles. They run 5w-20 oil. They have to, their EPA demands it. They demand it because a 5w-20 oil will cause less frictional loss. Less frictional loss means less fuel consumption. Less fuel consumption means cleaner air in Los Angeles....
They have different PCM flashes to us. Their cat converters must last for an incredible 100,000 miles (US EPA mandate....ADR 37-00 requires our cats to last half that [80,000 kms]). This means Mazda have to control the exhaust temperatures to save the cat from too high a temperature. The easiest way to do that is to pour more fuel into the engine. This results in (you guessed it) high emissions and poor economy. There is a very fine balancing act Mazda has to accomplish to satisfy the customer and the EPA.
Many of the problem engines have come from the hot dry states like Nevada. They see temperatures in summer of 40degC for weeks on end. We don't get that here.
We haven't seen engines failures of this type happen here. I don't think we'll get this recall, but it's a wait and see I suppose.
The US cars have had local engine issues for quite a while now. You need to understand the differences between the US and Australian spec vehicles. They run 5w-20 oil. They have to, their EPA demands it. They demand it because a 5w-20 oil will cause less frictional loss. Less frictional loss means less fuel consumption. Less fuel consumption means cleaner air in Los Angeles....
They have different PCM flashes to us. Their cat converters must last for an incredible 100,000 miles (US EPA mandate....ADR 37-00 requires our cats to last half that [80,000 kms]). This means Mazda have to control the exhaust temperatures to save the cat from too high a temperature. The easiest way to do that is to pour more fuel into the engine. This results in (you guessed it) high emissions and poor economy. There is a very fine balancing act Mazda has to accomplish to satisfy the customer and the EPA.
Many of the problem engines have come from the hot dry states like Nevada. They see temperatures in summer of 40degC for weeks on end. We don't get that here.
We haven't seen engines failures of this type happen here. I don't think we'll get this recall, but it's a wait and see I suppose.
I posted the above in response to the hysteria that was being whipped up in the Australian Forum when guys down under read of your pending engine recall. Time has proven me right.....we didn't get that recall.
11-04-2006, 09:08 AM
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I think I know the damage you are talking about. Due to the larger intake ports on the renesis damaging side seals over time slowly causing them to lose compression. I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but I think he is the same guy who talks alot about porting and polishing.
11-04-2006, 09:17 AM
#12
I think the engine itself has no problems. its more like the messed up ECU programming(Special thx to EPA for that), and the Oil weight the NA market use (5w20, again, thx to EPA and Ford)
But Im using 5w30
with Idemistu Rotary Pre-mix.
blow me EPA, you guys fuxk everything up, not only rotary.
But Im using 5w30
with Idemistu Rotary Pre-mix.blow me EPA, you guys fuxk everything up, not only rotary.
11-04-2006, 09:21 AM
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Tuning is a balance between power, fuel economy, emissions and reliability. Mazda needs to meet all 4.
Fuel economy and emissions tend to favor running lean mixtures.
Reliability tends to favor running a little richer although richer to foul plugs faster.
Power tends to affect the other 3 factors.
Mazda made a claim of 238 HP. Most of us doubt that number, it's probably closer to 210 shaft HP. It's possible that it can be tuned to make 238 HP at the shaft, but with a compromise to emissions, reliability and economy. With the 350Z being the Japanese counterpart and producing on the order of 287 shaft HP Mazda put a little more emphasis on power and fuel economy then reliability. For most people that isn't a problem. For some people, maybe 1% that may be a problem.
"May" is the operative word. Using all the wonders of Sigma six quality at the component level, 1% is pretty good for a complex assembly no matter how you slice it. Even if the tuning were optomized entirely to reliability I doubt they could cut the engine failure rate in half. Still premature failure rates are running a bit higher then Nissan, Honda and the other products in the Mazda line up.
Mazda could have just as easily said screw the customer just as Detroit always does. They chose not to. Given time Mazda has been monitoring the defects along with evaluating how to best address the quality and more importantly customer satisfaction issues. They've really gone beyond all others to meet this goal. It's not just the updates to the ECU mapping, little things like free plug replacements or even motor replacements and extended warrantees that add to that customer satisfaction.
Another thing we have in America are lawyers who are not accountable for their actions, but I won't get into that one very deep.
Fuel economy and emissions tend to favor running lean mixtures.
Reliability tends to favor running a little richer although richer to foul plugs faster.
Power tends to affect the other 3 factors.
Mazda made a claim of 238 HP. Most of us doubt that number, it's probably closer to 210 shaft HP. It's possible that it can be tuned to make 238 HP at the shaft, but with a compromise to emissions, reliability and economy. With the 350Z being the Japanese counterpart and producing on the order of 287 shaft HP Mazda put a little more emphasis on power and fuel economy then reliability. For most people that isn't a problem. For some people, maybe 1% that may be a problem.
"May" is the operative word. Using all the wonders of Sigma six quality at the component level, 1% is pretty good for a complex assembly no matter how you slice it. Even if the tuning were optomized entirely to reliability I doubt they could cut the engine failure rate in half. Still premature failure rates are running a bit higher then Nissan, Honda and the other products in the Mazda line up.
Mazda could have just as easily said screw the customer just as Detroit always does. They chose not to. Given time Mazda has been monitoring the defects along with evaluating how to best address the quality and more importantly customer satisfaction issues. They've really gone beyond all others to meet this goal. It's not just the updates to the ECU mapping, little things like free plug replacements or even motor replacements and extended warrantees that add to that customer satisfaction.
Another thing we have in America are lawyers who are not accountable for their actions, but I won't get into that one very deep.
11-04-2006, 09:46 AM
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Heck I got a 7 year 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty... If it blows,, it will be replaced....but until that happens, I am having the time of my life driving this car!!!
11-04-2006, 10:19 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by Gomez
...We haven't had your recent engine recall.
Ken
11-04-2006, 10:22 AM
#18
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We had the fuel tank recall, the lower control arm recall, the dynamic damper recall.......just like you guys did.
Like I said earlier....our engines aren't failing, hence no recall here.
Like I said earlier....our engines aren't failing, hence no recall here.
11-04-2006, 11:50 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Gomez
We had the fuel tank recall, the lower control arm recall, the dynamic damper recall.......just like you guys did.
Like I said earlier....our engines aren't failing, hence no recall here.
Like I said earlier....our engines aren't failing, hence no recall here.
11-04-2006, 01:19 PM
#20
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We all have to remember that this is an EXOTIC car. When I bought my first rotary in '71, people thought I was NUTS. You will regret it, they will never make it. Throwing your money away. The gas mileage is awful. Its made in Japan. We early purchasers took it if we enjoyed the rotary engine. Mazda took care of us. Yes sometimes we had to fight for somethings but it got better and we would feel part of this new idea in power it was electric. Biger, more power and torgue and then mpg got better too. At the same time we hit gas-crunch, WOW I wondered if the rotary would make it. Piston engines are so much farther in there developement and can get great mpg and torque. There are a hundred times more man hours developeing there engines. Dont buy this car because its gorgeous or handles well. The car is built around the Rotary engine and you are along for the ride. It's not the ride for everyone it can be daring, adventurous even, but we need to be or we would have never got the wheel! Enjoy the ride of life thats ZOOM-ZOOM.
Last edited by Old Rotor; 11-04-2006 at 01:21 PM.
11-04-2006, 10:55 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Gomez
This is what swoope quoted me as saying :
I posted the above in response to the hysteria that was being whipped up in the Australian Forum when guys down under read of your pending engine recall. Time has proven me right.....we didn't get that recall.
I posted the above in response to the hysteria that was being whipped up in the Australian Forum when guys down under read of your pending engine recall. Time has proven me right.....we didn't get that recall.
damn you and your no epa.. everything is a balancing act in the usa... money vs epa vs cat life vs motor life vs mpg.... i would blame a lawyer first...
which of the above is most important?? for me it is not the lawyer.
the sky is not falling...
beers
11-05-2006, 12:55 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by swoope
damn you and your no epa.....
11-05-2006, 01:01 AM
#23
Originally Posted by Gomez
Hahahaha.....oh we have an EPA, but it isn't as virulent as yours. We get by without a C.A.R.B as well, which helps....
to live in fla usa... i could run a straight pipe and no exhaust, but i would not could not... i cant deal with a real cel... even though i can make them go away...
fla usa.. no checks... but you have to live with your self.......
soon?
beers
11-05-2006, 01:20 AM
#24
Stuck in a love triangle
Originally Posted by swoope
ah,
to live in fla usa... i could run a straight pipe and no exhaust, but i would not could not... i cant deal with a real cel... even though i can make them go away...
fla usa.. no checks... but you have to live with your self.......
soon?
beers
to live in fla usa... i could run a straight pipe and no exhaust, but i would not could not... i cant deal with a real cel... even though i can make them go away...
fla usa.. no checks... but you have to live with your self.......
soon?
beers
Drugs are bad kids