wildwhl

Damn.

While driving to Lake Tahoe yesterday started to experience intermittent low oil quantity light (1-3 seconds) accompanied by severe loss of power (i.e. - won't rev beyond 6K in any gear, surging, etc.) Checked the oil level and it was fine, car wasn't overheating, tried turning off A/C, DSC, etc. and condition remained. Since this type of thing had already started happening last Friday, I decided to turn around and head to the dealer. Dropped the car off at 1:00 p.m. yesterday. By the way, for the hundred or so miles (650-750) with no problems she is sweet above 6,000 for the most part (a few dips here and there as ports open possibly?).

Just received a call from the service manager who stated that the car showed no codes and their "technician" had some questions for me. He proceeded to ask me how I broke in the the vehicle (babied it for 600+ miles), which fuel grade I was running (premium), what the ambient air temperature had been (65-95 degrees), etc. He told me they don't know what is wrong, and that the Mazda tech they had on the phone would walk them through it, assuring me it would be repaired WITHIN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS OR SO!

I am quite certain that all of this must, in some way, be related to the ECU/stuck port issues found elsewhere on this board. This totally bites, but, hey, I was forced to ride my Ducati home last night so it isn't all bad :-).

I'll keep everyone here informed of my results. FWIW my VIN ends in 5067 (oil pan issue for the warning light possibly, I don't know) and my car did have a port campaign sticker under the hood, I want to say with July 9th date if I recall correctly, but am uncertain at this point. My mileage has averaged about 18 mpg to this point - with about 50/50 hiway to city driving.

I of course told the service manage that the red GT on the lot would serve fine as a loaner! He didn't laugh or acknowledge the comment, other than to say that he had loaner cars available...wonder what?

I miss her already...

Bill

med_mx6

I'm sorry to hear of your RX-8's malaise. Reports of early problems really tear me up though: on one hand, I want to support Mazda and the RX-8 by buying its first model year, but on the other hand, this is exactly why I'm waiting 'til 2005.

And I'm going to hopefully preempt some people who would say that this could happen to any new car and that the Renesis is not a "new" design by saying that while this is true, there just is no mechanical / maintanence history on a mass-produced Renesis.

zoom44

had the tech heard about the oil pan issue and have they ruled that out?

edit: could surging be clutch slippage?

nk_Rx8

See this thread regarding the oil pan issue

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discussion-3/got-my-rx8-back-repair-shop-good-news-8458/

wildwhl

I've informed the tech about the oil pan issue and faxed him copies of links/info from this board - thanks.

Surging was/is most certainly a power issue and not any failure/malfunction of the clutch.

My (slightly) educated guess is that the problem lies with in fuel delivery and or timing (ECU?).

Time will tell - and thanks to all for input.

Magnesium

Did the dealer give you a loaner vehicle?

If not, they should be..

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...=assuranceMain

wildwhl

The dealer has offered a Chrysle product (aaacccchhhh) as a loaner...no thanks...I'll drive my Maxima SE instead...

Update as of 4:00 today is that they can repeat the power delivery (or lack thereof) problem but haven't yet seen an oil light appear. The service manager, David, claims a factory rep, some sort of regional service manager, will be here tomorrow to help diagnose the problem.

Get this, I checked to odometer and they've put over 100 miles on the car since I dropped it off yesterday? If something is seriously wrong, I wonder what greater damage they could be doing...oh well...warranty I suppose.

One other note of humor (not that funny to me, actually) was that the service manager indicated that the power felt much better when going down hill as opposed to going up - duh! He also said, and I quote, "...you know sir, we don't build them here, only try to fix them."

I respect that, but that doesn't change my lack of confidence in this group of service personnel. This could get ugly...

Bill

midniteblue

wow, you're def. caught in an ugly situation and very tragic that you have to experience a set back on your new car. Hopefully, things will be resolved quickly....but wow o wow, i def. would not mind driving home with a Ducati :D

wildwhl

Yeah, I must admit the Duc is a lot of fun...and for what it is worth for those of you waiting for your RX-8, I can ALMOST hold a couple of my favorite corners at equal speeds in the 8 as I can the Ducati...now that's pretty impressive handling, body roll or not, in my book. I'd post the speeds but quite frankly they are too incriminating :-)

RX Guy

100 miles in 24 hrs? Isn't that a bit much even if it was part of the effort to duplicate the power loss condition?

When I take a car in I expect a 10 miles tops difference on the odometer. 100 miles, that's more than hour and a half worth of driving at 65 mph.

P00Man

wow man, that sucks...hopefully they will find out whats up and fix it with out putting too much mileage on or hurting it too much worse
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Oregon Medical Marijuana Dispensary

rx7 rage

They drove your car 100 miles?! I think that's @#$$% bull !@#$!

Superfan

Here's my guess and this is based on my last RX-7. There are some things that trigger the ECU to go into a "Limp Home Mode" (run rich, retard timing and lower the redline). As an example, if the map sensor hose pops off on any FD the car will go into this mode. It is possible that the intermittent oil light occurring x amount of times [or even in a time span] could trigger a sort of limp home mode. Maybe a constant low oil signal will even shut down the car until oil is added. Again, this is just a guess but it is possible.

wildwhl

Superfan -

Thanks for the input. You could be right about a limp mode, my previous vehicle (Jetta 1.8T - chipped of course) would do this on occasion as well - but only after some serious issues.

One thing though, if the ECU had decided to pump into limp mode - wouldn't it store some sort of code? Also, the power loss occurred on more than one occasion, and only on the latest episode did it have the oil light flashing. According to the Mazda technician, they can't get the oil light to come on - but can cause the power loss rather quickly now (warm it up, travel about 10 miles, and pull a grade somewhat spiritedly - or even just drive on the flats with mild aggression).

Finally, the condition isn't permanent, as my experience with a limp mode has been. It will return to normal, even without shutting off the key...

I'm sure tomorrow will be fun.

PUR NRG

For what it's worth, surging can also be caused by turbulent airflow past the mass airflow sensor. The turbulence causes the CPU to recieve conflicting input (MAF "says" one thing, other sensors say another) and engine surge is a result. Have you changed anything on the air intake side?
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MOTORCYCLE TIRES

wildwhl

I haven't changed anything on the intake side, the car is still entirely stock. However, you could be right (see below).

I just returned from the dealer, spent quite some time speaking to the mechanic about the issues. He can't repeat the oil light situation, and has checked the oil pan issue with Mazda tech line/corporate and apparently my car does not have the faulty oil pan.

The issue appears to be with (excuse my lack of correct terminology here) the variable intake volume in that when the runners that open up around 5,500-6,000 rpm, which are actuated by an electric motor driving a gear, etc., they aren't fully opening or possibly not opening at all. They are supposed to be able to verify this for sure this afternoon via laptop plugged into the car (he needs to shower first - seriously).

The service center here only has one mechanic that is rotary engine knowledgable (and after talking to him for about 40 minutes I have confidence in the mechanic). He was in the middle of pulling a transaxle out of some sort of minivan when he got the call back from Mazda with instructions on how to proceed around 10:00 this morning. He is covered in grease from head to toe. He asked, politely, if he could get back on the car tomorrow a.m. when he is all clean and I said OK. As an alternative, the regional service manager is supposed to be here this afternoon and he may hand the diagnostic session over to him. The mechanic is a nice guy that really seems to know his Wankel, despite the lack of information (manual, etc.) from Mazda at this point. In fact, what he does have from Mazda looks like my 2 year old son wrote it and drew the pictures with crayons. He drives a '93 (I think) RX7...and his diagnosis seemed to make even more sense to him after speaking directly with me about the issues. By the way, the computer did not have any codes stored other than an indication that the DSC had been completely disabled (by me, to see if it made a difference on the way to the shop).

So, there you have it, my update for today. There was some yelling over the 500+ miles they put on the car - a lot of name calling, cussing, finger pointing - etc. - and then somebody pointed out that the KM/M switch had been hit and the odometer was now reading in KM (1298) as opposed to the miles it should have been. Many apologies by all involved (including me) and promises of several comps later I walked out feeling somewhat more comfortable that the issue will be resolved shortly.

Not to fuel the fire here - but I did ask the mechanic if he had heard of the horsepower issues. He is familar with this forum as well as www.nopistons.com and had heard the rumors, but only replied, and I quote "...don't worry about it, all is well. I'm not sure if the ECU will be changing over or not - but I'm certain that you will be getting all the horsepower you've paid for - in fact I'd bet on it." I didn't ask any further and am not really sure what that means, but...at least someone who works on these vehicles knows about it and doesn't seem to be concerned (echoes Mr. Yaw's sentiments to me).

Time will tell - but I sure do miss her! They just pulled one off the truck identical to mine except for the solid black interior...might have to suggest they give me that one :-)

dreamgetter1

Time will tell - but I sure do miss her! They just pulled one off the truck identical to mine except for the solid black interior...might have to suggest they give me that one :-) [/B][/QUOTE]

I would, plus get some comps.

Smoker

Hey wildwhl,
thanks for the update. So I guess they only put about 30 miles on it instead of 500 miles huh ??? :D

Let us know what happens tomorrow, keep us in the loop. I'm sure you'll get your baby back soon. Good Luck !

wildwhl

Update: Wednesday evening.

OK, so they tested the 5th and 6th ports, if you will, and claim they are working correctly (so says the ECU through the scantool port or?). They're stumped, and are not sure when they will no more as of 5:00 today.

I decided to write a short letter to the owner of the car lot. I'll post letter and resonse, if interested, tomorrow. I need answers. They have my car and can't give me any, and quite frankly, I'm disturbed. Yes, those of you who chose to wait for later allocations are smiling right now...but...I still think from what I've experienced that the problem lies in the "tertiary" ports opening and/or fuel delivery around that rpm range.

So no new good news, no car, and tonight, no Ducati. Had to haul stuff home for my wife and the now visiting mom-in-law. Had the joy of driving our sorely beatup '86 Toyota delivery van - no a/c and certainly no power...but better than walking I suppose :-)

wildwhl

I have some good news to report today. No, the car is not fixed, however, I just received a call from Terry Peterson, owner of Reno Mazda, and he said he is gassing, washing, and installing my car seat in his red RX8 and will have it delivered to my office as my loaner this morning. I am thoroughly impressed (had to make sure it wasn't April 1st) at his prompt response to my letter sent to his office last night that Andy, the general sales manager left for him on his desk this morning. The letter follows below - but I want to post kudos here to Reno Mazda for the loaner car solution.

<Attn: Reno Mazda
RE: Black RX8 going on day 3 in service - Mazda case number 210xxx

Gentlemen -

Each of you are aware of the situation with the black RX8 I purchased from your establishment July 30th. You are also aware that said vehicle has been in the service department, with no real diagnosis of problem or eta of resolution since Monday 8/11/03 this week, some 12 days and 774 short miles after taking delivery. Your staff has already admitted they do not know what is wrong and are at a loss as how to proceed, save for waiting for corporate Mazda's directions.

My question for you is this: When will my vehicle be returned to me repaired, or replaced. Being that the vehicle is brand new and that I paid full price I would expect prompt resolution of this matter. Does Mazda USA care about the early reliability reputation of this "flagship" release? I recognize you may feel that your technicians are doing what they can, however, that doesn't change the fact that my money (aka vehicle) is tied up in your service bay. How many days will you attempt to repair this vehicle before your conscience indicates that the right thing to do is simply replace it? I'm not threatening any legal action here, only questioning what each of you, most especially you, Terry, as the owner, feels is the RIGHT thing to do?

What do you feel is a reasonable amount of time for you to have my brand new property tied up in service before I lose faith in its reliability?

I know you have a vehicle loaner program. Can you loan me a vehicle of equal or greater value and performance, if not, what's the purpose? I didn't purchase basic transportation, but instead a sports car. Terry, do you have an RX8? How about loaning me that while you have mine? A lesser product (aka Chrysler rental as suggested) would only add insult to injury at this point in time. I purchased Mazda's flagship at a flagship price and expect to drive the same each day - nothing less. I noticed a nearly identical RX-8 delivered today, albeit with different interior color, as well as two others on the lot. Might you offer me one of those vehicles as a "loaner" in the meantime while your staff seeks resolution?

We all know how disastrous bad press on a newly released vehicle such as this can be for sales. However, as each of my vendors, customers, coworkers, family and friends keep asking me how I like the car, what can I answer other than it is already in need of repairs with no eta of completion or even diagnosis for resolution? I've learned dearly that word of mouth is the most valuable advertising for any business, most notably in small cities such as Reno.

Terry, if I have your name correct, as the owner of Reno Mazda Kia I would greatly appreciate a phone call from you to share your thoughts directly.

Warmest regards,

wildwhl>

Now, the car isn't actually here yet...but I suspect it will be shortly.

Again, I'm impressed, and want to personally thank Terry here for this temporary solution. I still have mixed feelings about the service department staff - though the mechanic(s) seem well skilled and polite. At least I'll be enjoying some more time in the sweetness of an 8 while mine is diagnosed and repaired.

UPDATE
They just dropped it off...19 miles, brand new, red with rotary accent package. I THOUGHT I was in love with the black...but the metallic in this red is pretty darn sweet too. I'm outta here for a few hours!

JaxFL_RX8

How terribly disconcerting. Please keep us advised as to diagnosis and the solution. I hope this isn't a soon to be common problem!!

The little flakes in the Red are sweet, aren't they? Tell Terry to keep the black one and you'll call it even.

dreamgetter1

Well at least you don't have to drive a Chrysler product. I like the way they have temporarily solved your situation. All the best in getting a quick resolution.

wildwhl

The Red RX8 feels faster/smoother

then my car ever did, from day one. Just returned from a 30+ mile test drive in it and quite frankly, from day one my black car I could feel a dip at 6,200ish and again about 8,000ish rpms (OK, I didn't hit 8,000 rpms until about 500 miles or so). This car is smooth everywhere (though I'm trying to be easy on it, I couldn't resist checking to see if I've been missing something - I'm convinced I have).

Certainly, this issue will be an isolated one - and hopefully for the rest of you only to this case.

Just going with the butt dyno I'm guessing this car has more power - possibly substantially more (15%?) - than the one I purchased. I'd attribute this to whatever defect has taken her into the shop at this point being there since day one - but coming on gradually such that I didn't really notice it (well, I did, but thought it was just tight breakin stuff) until it was severe. The red8 has quite smooth power delivery all the way up with a nice little rush around the top - like I had EXPECTED my car to...but it's been 20 years since I drove a rotary powered car (RX2 my first ever vehicle) and just figured it was still a green engine...

Anyway, I'm headed out to drive my wife and mom'n'law around town for a few hours...yes, I'm looking for any excuse to be driving and not stuck at my desk! I'll have my wife drive the car and see if she thinks it feels any different...though she has a fear of high rpms (she jams the throttle in her Maxima but always backs off about 5K for some reason - must be the old Honda in her :-)

antman_x

dude I feel for you and hope all goes well. If they can't fix it demand a replacement! And get the red my friend with the red n black interior. feels like you're in a roller coaster.

best of luck!