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Mazda product development chief Philip Martens also confirmed that his team were working on a more powerful turbocharged RX-8 that would pump out in excess of 250kW and be available in around 2004. That's in addition to word from inside Mazda that the next generation two-door RX-7 will also be based on the RX-8's platform but not appear in showrooms until 2004 at the earliest..
Thats 335hp. I don't know how accurate this is, but it is out there....
The article that I posted is a bit more recent, I dont doubt it at all, but thats what the president said. I just regurgitate info.
What we may be seeing here is a confirmation on a prototype RX8 Turbo. Where as the article I posted dealt with the production RX8's. I am looking to add turbos to my RX8 sooner or later, and look for other companies and mazda and bathurst to do it as well in the future.
Here is what I am wondering, would Mazda keep the plans for a RX8 turbo secret. I mean think about it we all know that there will be a new Rx7, and if fact why would Mazda put out a car way before the new Rx7 that will be turbo? I mean why not just have a RX8 with a lot of power Sedan, and then throw it threw the roof and introduce a TT new RENSIS in the new RX7 for those race enthusats. I mean basicaly why are they going to tell us about the RX8 going turbo in the new RENSIS, so later they can compete with themselves in the 8 and 7?
Originally posted by Phyre I mean why not just have a RX8 with a lot of power Sedan, and then throw it threw the roof and introduce a TT new RENSIS in the new RX7 for those race enthusats.
Well, because turbos are not allowed in most racing classes. A lot of the 3rd gens you have seen racing are NA.
Mazda, if they are smart, will leave the turbo RX-8 options for the aftermarket. Turbos, IMHO, were nearly the death of the rotary engine as a viable power plant. I think Mazda realizes this too, which is why all the actual Mazda quotes I have seen or heard are "we're not doing turbos this time" quotes.
No matter how much NA power they end up producing, there will always be some die-hard maniacs that want more, and will strap a turbo to anything to get it. Those enthusiasts that will turbo their NA (see 1st gen RX-7 options - no factory turbo, but MANY aftermarket turbo options when they were new), but the way to sell cars (object of the RX-8 since it is a "family" sports sedan and not the flagship sportscar) is to skip the pitfalls of all out performance, and go for trouble free performance with good mileage and insurance rates. Mazda as a corporation is looking to sell cars to turn a profit to stay in business. They are not looking to satisfy a very small minority in the audience (power mad enthusiasts) with this car. That's the marketing position the RX-7 has evolved into...
If you seek factory turbo, simply support those you know who plan on buying the NA RX-8. If the 8 is successful, the RX-7 will follow. Of course with the additional years for research into the rotary, I would not be surprised to find they can produce the big power without turbo(s). I'm hoping for a Renisis 20B NA.
So in essence, I guess I am agreeing that they should leave the factory turbo setup for the next RX-7, if they do it at all. I'd rather see a 500 hp NA 20B RX-7 than a 13B TT RX-7. :D
__________________ Jim Linnihan...................................
Was it really the turbo that made the 3rd gen so unreliable? There was a Turbo II on the second generation cars, did it have big reliability problems like the 3rd gen?
My understanding was that the sequential turbo on the FD3S, with its 75 tubes running beween turbos and engines, combined with the extremely high heat and lack of adequate cooling was the biggest problem with FD3S reliability, no?
I'm not a huge turbo fan in the first place. Would I like to see turbo as an option to get more power? Yes. Would I rather see a normally aspirated 3 rotor instead of turbo. You bet.
If you have the RX-7 Sportscar Color History book, check out the numbers sold at the end. They started making the factory turbo models in 1986, and shortly thereafter, the sales trend went right into the gutter. The problem was only exacerbated by the FD.
What it comes down to is this: Turbo = more power + less reliability + more heat, which is a whole mess of stuff the average car buyer not only doesn't want, but doesn't understand. Bring all that together, and the only people who give a hoot about turbo are people like us. :D Problem is, if you want to sell cars, how many will be bought by people like us? Just 7 years ago, I think we proved that the American public in general was not ready for turbo, twin turbo, or any high tech sportscar stuff from Japan. Have we changed that much in 7 years? IMHO, no.
I know, you know, and I'll bet just about everyone else here knows that turbo is fun, and a great way to keep weight down while adding GOBS of power, but the RX-8 is a family sportscar, not the flagship sportscar. It would be very unwise of Mazda to repeat THIS history, especially on the family car.
I'm looking for the gobs of power form the next RX-7. And I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that they aren't going to turbo that for gobs of power either. I'd rather see a reliable NA 20B Renisis that will give the rotary a good reputation outside of our little rotary corner of the internet...
I have to agree with NOTA V6. Keep the RX8 design simple and reliable. If you do this and price it right sales success will follow IMHO. If the RX8 is successful the RX7 has a much better chance of seeing the light of day on American shores.
The problem with the RENESIS, like that of the S2000, is a lack of torque. Sure, a sky-high redline is fun, but are most people going to buy a "family" car that you have to drive like you're mad at, just to get around? I think not. Granted, it purports to be a sports car, but in reality, it probably will not reach its intended mark without the addition of some torque. At least Honda doesn't pretend their car is something it isn't.
Proof? Go drive an S2000, or better yet, try driving a 7 that's got a bridge-ported or PP motor. Not too fun for daily driving, especially in stop-and-go traffic. Torque helps get the car moving, and the heavier the car (remember, passengers and luggage add weight, too), the more torque it needs to be driveable.
There are many ways you can build torque, but the easiest and most effective is to increase displacement. We really can't be helped in that department without adding more rotors to the engine. Given a limited displacement, the next best way to build big torque is to add something to increase the engine's compression, whether static or dynamic. Turbos are especially useful in this area because they are more or less an on-demand torque (and horsepower) builder. This is one of the reasons the TII's and FD's are as streetable as they are, for being so powerful.
I think it would be folly to introduce a family-type vehicle and not give you a product with enough torque to make driving it enjoyable. I hope I'm wrong on this point. Don't misunderstand me, I like the RX-8 and hope it sells well, mainly so that we can get another 7 here. I love rotaries. I just don't think that Mazda is going to sell as many of these as they think they are, without some type of increased useable power.
Think of it this way, would you rather drive a Miata or a vert 7? Which is honestly the more fun-to-drive car in stock form? Most would say the Miata, emotional input aside. Why? Among other points, it has an appropriate amount of useable power for its size. Stock vert 7's feel bulky and underpowered by comparison. I think this is how many potential buyers will view the RX-8.
So, what's my point? Bring on the turbo. Just one is fine, but if two, something has to be done to make the sequencer reliable. Sad to say, but I think Mazda needs to take some lessons from Toyota.
1. How You Remind Me, Nickelback
2. Foolish - Ashanti
3. Hot in Herre, Nelly
4. Dilemma, Nelly Featuring Kelly Rowland
5. Wherever You Will Go, The Calling
6. A Thousand Miles, Vanessa Carlton
7. In the End, Linkin Park
8. What's Luv?, Fat Joe Featuring Ashanti
9. U Got It Bad, Usher
10. Blurry, Puddle Of Mudd
...really??? nickelback was the #1 song?? gawd that makes me hate mainstream radio even more now...