Vampyr

Just curious at what RPM most of you go into 1st Gear from a dead stop.

I'm trying like mad to improve my gas mileage and I think I'm overrevving going into 1st. The problem is being a newbie stick driver and not having a lot of experience on other cars, I can't get good advice from friends who drive non-rotary cars. Their RPM's are meaningless to a rotary owner

Please keep in mind I have seen some threads about clutch dropping at various RPM's for fast take-off's but I'm mainly interested in a "standard stop and go" situation.

FWIW I'm engaging the clutch at about 2500 RPM, sometimes slightly higher since I tend to over-rev for fear of stalling.
As soon as I engage the clutch I lose about 1000 RPM and anything under 2500 RPM as an engage point feels like I may stall or lurch the car.

HELP!

edit: I also engage very slowly (only going into 1st) but I've heard this is bad and I don't know how to measure whether my I'm coming off the clutch too slow going into first.

Astor

I would imagine this is your first stick shift. If you are going to a dead stop anyway, you don't have to put it into 1st until you do. As long as you hold the clutch in, the car won't stall. Just as you are coming to a stop, let off your gas, engage clutch at desired RPMs, when you come to a complete stop, put into 1st, then push on the accelerator, and let the clutch out slowly. If you disengage at 2500 RPM, that's fine, just let out the clutch slowly and you won't stall as long as you are giving it gas.

i3man

I used to engage the clutch at about 1000-1500 RPM but it can sometimes make for a slightly rough start so now I'm usually at about 1500-2000 RPM when I engage.

On inclines when I know I've got a car behind me I'll let the RPMs fall real low until I can feel the clutch grabbing before I step on the gas just to make sure I don't roll back too much.

The funny thing about going into 1st from a dead stop is that once the clutch beings engaging and if you're at a relatively low RPM, slamming on more gas doesn't immediately make the car go.

It's always going to feel smoother if you're revving a few RPMs when starting in 1st. I'm sure eveyone has a different opinion but IMO on flat ground from a dead stop, about 1700-1800 is ideal.

My last MT car was 15 years ago when I had my 84 GSL-SE and I seem to recall being able to start at a lower RPM in 1st with that car and still driving smoothly. The 8 just feels like it starts off better in 1st with a few more RPMs.

5Gen_Prelude

If you can prevent the RPM's from dropping while slipping into 1st, you're golden. The faster you do it (without dropping the clutch of course), the better it is for the car.

Astor

FWIW, the manual states not to go into 1st unless you are going under 20 mph, I tend to let the synchros do the work when I come to a complete stop, then I rev as high as I like depending on how fast I want to take off, then smooth out the clutch. There are a lot of older cars that have no 1st gear synchros so you would have to come to a complete stop before you could put it into 1st.

i3man

Because I tend to be a low RPM starter there were times where it felt like the car was going to stall but I can kind of feel it and I'll press in the clutch quickly to keep the motor running. So now I try to pick up the RPMS to that 1700 RPM or so range I mentioned.

Everyone is different and you'll find what works best for you. As for disengaging too slowly being bad for the car, I doubt any of us will do much harm to the car because of it. I think the owners manual said avoid riding the clutch as a means of balancing on inclines but other than that I think your disengage point is a matter of personal preference and what feels best/smoothest to you.

The only time I've ever stalled my 8 was the other night at my dad's house. I normally start my car in neutral but for some reason I forgot the car was in gear and after I turned the key I let the clutch out and car did the little hop forward and died :p I usually let the motor run in neutral for a bit whenever I start the car rather than take off immediately after it starts. Luckily my dad was on the side of my car and not in front, otherwise I might have hit him.

Vampyr

Thanks for the advice guys. Sounds like I need a little more work so I can accelerate smoothly at a lower RPM.

I have another question. Relating to bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic.

I can't figure out how to make the car go really slow - say 10 MPH or so. If I give it the slighest amount of gas it is lurchy and starts to gradually accelerate. Of course no gas is not possible either.

Is the proper technique to alternate gas/clutch constantly to maintain that low speed? This question arises not just from bumper to bumper traffic but also getting out of my neighborhood with speed bumps and all.

It just seems overall like the car doesn't like low speeds (duh it's a sportscar, lol). Similar problem if I'm in second and trying to maintain say a 20 mph consistent speed...I can't seem to modulate the throttle without accelerating or lurching a little as I goose it.

i3man

You can drive in 1st gear smoothly in traffic. With NO gas, the car will move at about 5 MPH. Accelerate smoothly in 1st and you can move in traffic at 10-12 MPH easily but DON'T just let off the gas all at once when in 1st, the car will lurch. If you're in 1st moving along at 10-12 MPH, let off gas slowly and you'll slow back down and then you can let your foot off the gas completely and move along at about 5 MPH. In the lower gears you really need to be smooth with the gas pedal.

Always try to look ahead 5-10 cars so you know if you have to slow down or speed up so you can do it gradually...that is assuming you can see in front of all the mini-vans and SUVs on the roads these days.

If the traffic is flowing faster than that you'll probably want to be in 2nd but I'll stay in 1st in traffic up until about 10-12 MPH. I never downshift into 1st and I'm pretty sure most others don't either. If I'm rolling, I won't go into first unless under about 5 MPH.

You also don't want to be in 2nd if the car is moving too slowly because that's when the motor lugs.

Vampyr

Well I'm glad I posted this and wish I had posted earlier. Thanks i3man, because you'll chuckle when I tell you that I didn't know you could keep moving smoothly in first with no gas. I always just assumed no gas on a stick shift = stall. Didn't even bother to risk trying it.

I'll practice what you're talking about tomorrow in my daily bumper to bumper commute.

edit: actually lemme go try this right now.

i3man

Let us know how it goes.

Vampyr

LOL too funny. I am such a moron.

You're right though, the gas pedal is very touchy as you try to come off of it in first. When I was doing this before the car would feel lurchy so I just equated this with the car being about to stall and would either push in the clutch or give it gas.

I can't believe I didn't know you could coast in 1st at 5mph with no gas. Obviously if you brake to below 4-5mph and try this you'll stall, right?

To carry this further I tried the same strategy in higher gears like 4th and that didn't go so well...lol.

Can you do the same in 2nd or is 1st the only real gear that you can coast indefinitely w/ no gas?

Vampyr

If someone posts a Dumb Thread of the Year award please nominate this one. :p

i3man

Pretty much 1st is the only gear you can do that in. In any other gear you'll start slowing down too much and the motor will lug and you'll eventually have to downshift anyways.

And you're absolutely right on stalling if you if you brake while coasting in 1st. If you're coasting along in 1st and you need to slow you better step in the clutch to keep from stalling. Also if you're on a slight incline it gets harder to coast in 1st without stepping the gas. But on flat ground you can coast indefinitely in 1st without touching the gas.

Consider yourself and old pro driving MT now :p

Astor

as long as you are going fast enough for the gear, you can coast in any gear.

i3man

That is true but we're talking about driving in stop-and-go traffic and how many times do you make into 6th gear in stop-and-go traffic :p

When you're coming to a complete stop at say a traffic light from 40 MPH you can stay in 4th and press brake until you're at about 1500 RPM and then step in the clutch and come to a stop.

The transmission will act as a brake anyways so eventually you'll end up downshifting or stopping when you're in a higher gear. Only in 1st can you essentially coast along indefinitely without stepping on the gas.

red_rx8_red_int

No this is not a dumb thread. I also never knew that you could go 5 mph in first by letting the engine idle. I thought I was in bog area and always clutched going that slow. To maintain a slow pace (rush hour) I would let out the clutch a little to get a bump and then depress the clutch again.

To answer the original question, what rpm to take off from a start, it depends on skill level. The other day I was dropping my teenager off at high school, we were behind a Mustang, the stang would rev and then move forward one car distance when appropraite. I started doing the same thing and it was real easy to let the clutch out slightly at 3k rpm (basically what I call bouncing off the clutch) and then reclutch and come to the next stop. I explained this to my teenager (that I was currently teaching our to drive a stick in my 8) and the next time she drove it she was MUCH better at taking off. That said, I reexamined the way I usually take off, and I don't give any gas until I feel the clutch start to grab. So I don't pre-rev unless I'm on a hill. I think the more stick experience you have and the more times you've driven your car (each is different) the more likely you are to be able to match gas pedel depression with clutch release such that no pre-rev is required and the take off is smooth as silk.

i3man

I just got home after driving in some stop-and-go traffic and since this thread came about I did give it a little more thought and notice as I was driving.

Although the car can coast along in 1st w/out gas, it is kinda lurchy and I find that I give it ever so slightly enough gas so that it is not lurchy...which allows you to go at a pace of about 6-7 MPH. I'll stay in 1st modulating w/ gas up until about 15 MPH but again the the key is watching the traffic flow. If the cars start speeding up I'll shift into 2nd but if I can see the car slowing I'll just modulate in 1st and ease off. When I know I'm going to have to stop I normally press in the clutch and shift into neutral and coast well before I come to a stop.

There is no right or wrong and after a while we all find what works best for us and gives us the most driving comfort. You can always get good feedback from your passengers. If they look queasy and nauseas that's probably a signal to learn how to drive smoother.

Vamp on a side note, you can actually go from a dead stop to coasting in 1st with out pressing any gas at all on flat ground. If you do it very gradually it will be very smooth and it won't even lurch.

Darnit, I was thinking about this thread so much while I was driving home I forgot to stop and buy dinner. Oh well, looks like it's Pop Tarts for dinner.

Astor

that is very true, In 1st gear the engine gives enough gas where upon flat land you can coast with no gas or clutch until you run out of gas. I just meant if you were on the interstate, you could have it in 6th gear and coast down a hill.

j1mb0x99

Here is my two cents. I hope it helps Vamp. Anyway, the key to driving manual is smoothness. to take off smooth, you need to let off of the clutch smoothly. This takes alot of practice. After driving the car for a while you will get a feel for it. So the jerkier you let off of the clutch, the jerkier your takeoff is gonna be. Also, as i3man said you don't really need the gas peddle at all. I have a truck with a manual and in it if I have enough road and it is empty, I can take off from a dead stop and run through all five gears without pressing the gas at all. Its probably not the best for it since it lugs pretty bad in fifth though Anyway, feel free to ask any other questions. Hope this helped a little.

-JiM

Arcane

i drive the same way...i release the clutch to the friction point, gas a little then balance between clutch/gas from there...

also, you can add me to the list of people that didn't know you could coast in 1st gear...

Vampyr

You guys are great...I came in today expecting a little ridicule and instead I found more helpful people. I'll practice letting off the clutch to go into 1st from a dead stop WITHOUT gas, b/c I think once I get the hang of that I'll overcome my fear of stalling that's causing me to overrev.

Again guys thanks for being so helpful to a stick newb. Sorry that this thread forced you to have a pop tart for dinner i3man

red_rx8_red_int

After reading this thread last night, the first thing I did this morning was take my foot off the gas in first to see this for myself (after the car was warmed up, just in case it did stall). Maintained 4 mph! No bog at all. Wow the things we learn here.

realdeal

You can also coast in reverse. If your in the parking lot just put it in reverse and find the friction point. It's good practice.

Jsuzuki

If you're trying to avoid the head toss effect when you let off the gas in 1st gear at low speeds, a moment before letting off the gas, engage the cluth slightly, let off the gas, let off the clutch. Works for 2nd gear as well.

My habit in stop and go traffic is to let the car ahead open up some space so I could at least maintain 1st gear at 2k rpm.

Also a bit off topic but the originaly poster stated trying to save fuel. I've tried both styles of driving in my 80 mile commute. Fuel consumption didn't change whether I keep the engine speed under 3k, or just be lazy and not shift until 6k or so.

Vampyr

You're fortunate not to get the bog...no matter how slowly I ease off the gas, that last second where I actually come off it (even at say 6mph or so) I do get a double lurch/bog.

My engine only has 550 miles on it so maybe it's a break-in thing.