View Poll Results: premix?
I premix and I still had to replace my motor.
2
4.35%
I premix and am still on the orginal motor.
20
43.48%
I never premix and had to replace my motor.
1
2.17%
I never premix and am still on the original motor.
23
50.00%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll
Pre-Mix Poll (different)
08-02-2010, 09:09 AM
#1
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Pre-Mix Poll (different)
Yes I have read the premix thread. I would like put out a poll to see if premixing does anything at all to save motors.
1. I premix and still had to replace my motor.
2. I premix and still have the original motor.
3. I never premix and had to replace my motor
4. I never premix and still have the original motor.
1. I premix and still had to replace my motor.
2. I premix and still have the original motor.
3. I never premix and had to replace my motor
4. I never premix and still have the original motor.
08-02-2010, 09:21 AM
#2
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I voted, premix and still on the original motor.
I'd just like to point out though, that your premise is faulty.
Motors can fail for reasons that premix has nothing to do with, and the people on the boards here will be more likely to have issues than an actual true sampling of the population.
To correct for both, you will need a data set larger than you are likely to get.
Also, if a brand new owner with ~1,000 miles on the odo votes...what does that do to your data?
Premixing is like taking cholesterol medication for your heart. It simply reduces 1 risk of failure. It does not eliminate it, and it doesn't mean that you will live long and healthy, and it does not mean that people who don't take it will die early. It simply reduces 1 risk. You could still get to 200k without premixing, or fail in 10k with premixing.
Then there is the people that didn't premix on their original motor, but are premixing on their 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc..) motor. It wouldn't be clear which one to pick there.
I'm not trying to rain on your day, I just don't want you to look at these votes as hard factual proof of premix benefits.
I'd just like to point out though, that your premise is faulty.
Motors can fail for reasons that premix has nothing to do with, and the people on the boards here will be more likely to have issues than an actual true sampling of the population.
To correct for both, you will need a data set larger than you are likely to get.
Also, if a brand new owner with ~1,000 miles on the odo votes...what does that do to your data?
Premixing is like taking cholesterol medication for your heart. It simply reduces 1 risk of failure. It does not eliminate it, and it doesn't mean that you will live long and healthy, and it does not mean that people who don't take it will die early. It simply reduces 1 risk. You could still get to 200k without premixing, or fail in 10k with premixing.
Then there is the people that didn't premix on their original motor, but are premixing on their 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc..) motor. It wouldn't be clear which one to pick there.
I'm not trying to rain on your day, I just don't want you to look at these votes as hard factual proof of premix benefits.
08-02-2010, 09:36 AM
#4
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Yeah until Mazmart or BHR tears apart a renny that has been premixed since day one we don't know if it helps or not. I premixed on my last motor and it still failed but I did not premix from day one on that motor.
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-02-2010 at 09:42 AM.
08-02-2010, 09:43 AM
#5
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Yeah, polls like this are difficult.
Example..............I'm an 05 with 27k on the motor and never pre-mixed.
However, I just started this past weekend with 4oz of Idemitsu, so how do I vote?
I actually voted "never pre-mix and on original motor".
Example..............I'm an 05 with 27k on the motor and never pre-mixed.
However, I just started this past weekend with 4oz of Idemitsu, so how do I vote?
I actually voted "never pre-mix and on original motor".
08-02-2010, 09:48 AM
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I'd like to believe that we will never know, since the same engine builder would have to pull apart a statistically significant number of engines under both "premix" and "no premix" (and probably a 3rd of "sometimes premix"), for it to mean anything. Too many variables that can affect it, including drive style, decarb frequency, average ambient temps, cooling mods, oil weight, oil pressure, etc...
Instead, I just use a bit of 'reasonableness', in that we know that the series 1 renny is missing an injector in the middle, alot of apex seals on breakdown show excessive wear on the middle, series 2 renny re-added the 3rd injector. All point to not having enough lubrication. Adding lubrication won't hurt anything except our fuel filter and cat (one of those can be negated), as long as it isn't so much oil added that we can't get a proper burn any more.
Granted, race conditions are different than street, but if race teams that have enough rebuilds on the same engine and same operating conditions, essentially controlling all the variables, continue to premix in their fuel, it makes sense that there is a benefit.
Instead, I just use a bit of 'reasonableness', in that we know that the series 1 renny is missing an injector in the middle, alot of apex seals on breakdown show excessive wear on the middle, series 2 renny re-added the 3rd injector. All point to not having enough lubrication. Adding lubrication won't hurt anything except our fuel filter and cat (one of those can be negated), as long as it isn't so much oil added that we can't get a proper burn any more.
Granted, race conditions are different than street, but if race teams that have enough rebuilds on the same engine and same operating conditions, essentially controlling all the variables, continue to premix in their fuel, it makes sense that there is a benefit.
08-02-2010, 09:51 AM
#9
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Realistically, the poll option on theses boards simply can't handle the level of complexity needed to measure stuff like this.
It would be far better to set up a survey in a functional survey system, assign each motor a unique ID (so that each user can have more than 1 motor ID and resulting response set as needed), and ask all of the possible questions, with answer options as multiple choice to eliminate open text fields, but with enough relevant answer choices that it WILL cover every option.
I have access to such a survey system from my work account, but I probably shouldn't use it for something like this.
It is tempting though.
It would be far better to set up a survey in a functional survey system, assign each motor a unique ID (so that each user can have more than 1 motor ID and resulting response set as needed), and ask all of the possible questions, with answer options as multiple choice to eliminate open text fields, but with enough relevant answer choices that it WILL cover every option.
I have access to such a survey system from my work account, but I probably shouldn't use it for something like this.
It is tempting though.
08-02-2010, 10:17 AM
#12
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I'd like to believe that we will never know, since the same engine builder would have to pull apart a statistically significant number of engines under both "premix" and "no premix" (and probably a 3rd of "sometimes premix"), for it to mean anything. Too many variables that can affect it, including drive style, decarb frequency, average ambient temps, cooling mods, oil weight, oil pressure, etc...
Instead, I just use a bit of 'reasonableness', in that we know that the series 1 renny is missing an injector in the middle, alot of apex seals on breakdown show excessive wear on the middle, series 2 renny re-added the 3rd injector. All point to not having enough lubrication. Adding lubrication won't hurt anything except our fuel filter and cat (one of those can be negated), as long as it isn't so much oil added that we can't get a proper burn any more.
Granted, race conditions are different than street, but if race teams that have enough rebuilds on the same engine and same operating conditions, essentially controlling all the variables, continue to premix in their fuel, it makes sense that there is a benefit.
Instead, I just use a bit of 'reasonableness', in that we know that the series 1 renny is missing an injector in the middle, alot of apex seals on breakdown show excessive wear on the middle, series 2 renny re-added the 3rd injector. All point to not having enough lubrication. Adding lubrication won't hurt anything except our fuel filter and cat (one of those can be negated), as long as it isn't so much oil added that we can't get a proper burn any more.
Granted, race conditions are different than street, but if race teams that have enough rebuilds on the same engine and same operating conditions, essentially controlling all the variables, continue to premix in their fuel, it makes sense that there is a benefit.
I personally like to believe that premixing and running the SOHN helps but only time will tell (I have run both on this engine from the beginning).
I can say that I change my plugs yearly (regardless of miles) and my first set of plugs on this engine were covered with a fine coat of an oily substance which I presume is either the premix in the tank or from the SOHN or a combination of the both. But when my engine gets heat soaked I do have low idle issues so I am not 100% confident this engine will last. I also believe that the quality of Mazda's remans is sub par but what do I know.
I had a lot of silicone in my oil analysis' and then when I installed the Mazmart OP kit I saw this (check out the amount of silicone that oozed out between the housings):
Last edited by 9krpmrx8; 08-02-2010 at 10:21 AM.
08-02-2010, 10:21 AM
#13
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I dont premix, am on my original engine, have had boost running as high as 14psi with the hot as hell GReddy and have had a few nice hard pings (mistakes in the tune.) Still running strong.
I dont see what all the fuss is about.
I dont see what all the fuss is about.
08-02-2010, 10:36 AM
#16
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I actually doubt it. Almost certainly it will not fail before I pull it for my new built motor. (Which is done and just sitting around, so to be fair, that should not be too long.)
08-02-2010, 01:44 PM
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Motors can fail for reasons that premix has nothing to do with, and the people on the boards here will be more likely to have issues than an actual true sampling of the population.
To correct for both, you will need a data set larger than you are likely to get.
Also, if a brand new owner with ~1,000 miles on the odo votes...what does that do to your data?
To correct for both, you will need a data set larger than you are likely to get.
Also, if a brand new owner with ~1,000 miles on the odo votes...what does that do to your data?
I know it's not a great data set and I probably should have only included 04-06 models in the poll. I'm actually getting ready to begin premixing on an 04 that I just picked up. I already have a case of Legend ZX-2SR on order. I figure it can't hurt.
08-02-2010, 03:11 PM
#20
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Or you could join twice more under different identities, and vote separately on all three.
Ken
08-02-2010, 03:15 PM
#21
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I'm working on a more complete survey that would encompass this poll, as well as other possible factors of engine failure, on a per engine, not per user, basis.
Several members are testing it out now, but I might be releasing to the community in the next few days.
9k was the first one to test it out over the last hour with multiple submissions and discussion.
Several members are testing it out now, but I might be releasing to the community in the next few days.
9k was the first one to test it out over the last hour with multiple submissions and discussion.
08-02-2010, 09:21 PM
#23
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I'm working on a more complete survey that would encompass this poll, as well as other possible factors of engine failure, on a per engine, not per user, basis.
Several members are testing it out now, but I might be releasing to the community in the next few days.
9k was the first one to test it out over the last hour with multiple submissions and discussion.
Several members are testing it out now, but I might be releasing to the community in the next few days.
9k was the first one to test it out over the last hour with multiple submissions and discussion.
08-03-2010, 01:32 PM
#25
Started premixing at 57K or so on original engine. Now at 119K, still running great. Idemitsu at 4 oz per fillup (usually 13 gal). After reading the premix thread, I figured it couldn't hurt to put a little extra lubrication into the equation.