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cliffkemp, on the point about whether you hate the car: It all makes sense now that you've explained it. In fairness to your critics, the thread title does imply that the RX-8 deserved to have its sales drop, and the first post is almost entirely a list of negative things about the car. Not going to say that justifies the one personal attack here (i.e. "OP fails so hard"). Just saying it's not unreasonable that people marked you as a hater.
That said, I agree with your follow-up: either engage constructively or ignore the thread.
cliffkemp, on the point about whether you hate the car: It all makes sense now that you've explained it. In fairness to your critics, the thread title does imply that the RX-8 deserved to have its sales drop, and the first post is almost entirely a list of negative things about the car. Not going to say that justifies the one personal attack here (i.e. "OP fails so hard"). Just saying it's not unreasonable that people marked you as a hater.
That said, I agree with your follow-up: either engage constructively or ignore the thread.
I was not trying to be too sensitive although, I have seen people go over the edge on here and on DSMtuners as well.
The negative remarks about the car are my opinion based on working on cars in general and see what works and what does not. The rx8 is a very advanced car for its time.... So was the 959, M1, and Plymouth turbo (movie, 'the wraith') and all of them had issues or looked too futuristic and was not addressed in time.
Take a good look at the 70s (cannot remember exact year) astin martin that looks just like a 2005+ mustang but, was 35 years ahead of its time.
The 8 has many good qualities and, I am sure that is what kept it on the market for as long as it did. The short comings of the car were never the oil, power, or major changes. the issues were the little things like, bad visor (bad supplier), coolant float (bad supplier) bearings failing (oil issue), motor replacement (oiling again and 10 changes to program that no one could agree on, cat failure (host of potential causes), 02 sensor failure ( would not be that big of a deal if, the car could run in openloop and actually had a provision for that in the cpu (what is wrong with my car although, my talon could care less if the 02 sensor worked in it as, it does not affect drive-ability other than running a little rich, if the 02 goes out)), mis-stating hp, although, my car, with a few basic mods, was putting 200 to the wheels, last time I took it to the dyno. Radiator top cracking and leaking (same with mine but, has never run hot), an oil pressure gauge that only stays in one spot... come on... My 7 has an aftermarket gauge that shows around 25 psi at idle and 70 or so at 4500 or so and higher rpms.
Again, the display we have could easily show the basics of temperature, oil pressure, and AFR... When you can monitor this, especially the AFR, you can see what is going on with the engine and catch things before they become an issue at times.
The biggest issue I have heard is the oil consumption.... It is a non issue with me though as, I premix on both and have the oil pump disabled on my 7 when I installed the used motor over a year ago. I still believe that mazda should have put a tank in the car to use 2 stroke oil and keep it filled. If people are too lazy to check the fluids in their cars, they, definitely, do not need to be driving on, much less an RX. Those are the very people that complain when something goes wrong and, they are the one that caused it but moan about having to get it fixed cause they don't understand the car. These are the people that get surveyed by JD Power and others and give the car a bad name.
In saying the above, the car is not for everyone and mazda should limit the production, even to keep it in production, seeing how Mazda does not have a sports car, not a true one anyway. Sorry speed3 people but, speed3 is not a sports car and the miata should have a rotary option since, it is a sports car but, underpowered, in my opinion.
I like miatas too but, when I was younger, my little sohc neon would run all over one.... z4 will do the same now and same for the mr2 way back when. I know they can handle but, there is something to be said about 200+ hp to a light 2 seater car, like the older rx7s with the 13b turbo, before the miata was even thought of. Even they got big and somewhat bulky. Even the Savannahs of the earlier 80s were fairly light with decent power but, were not really sold here.
With so much safety, emissions, and other crap HAVING to be put on today's cars, I am not sure that mazda is going to be able to put the rotary in anything, anymore. It is bad enough that, racing has, for the most part, banned rotary engines.... Now, the gvt is phasing them out. It is sad. I was hoping for another rx7 or rx9 or whatever was going to come out next and get one. I was hoping for the 16x or rebirth of the 20b or even an 18a (wishful thinking on that one though) I was hoping that mazda could figure out the hot exhaust (overlap at the plug hole) and the lack of tq (heading in the right direction with the 16x as, I sent Mazda an email on that so many years ago with making the rotor somewhat larger and narrower to get more tq and overall power but, did not have specifics as, I am not a rotary engineer. Lastly, direct injection has not been tried either.... time will tell but, it is not looking good
A stock RX-8 is faster than an old Turbo II or any old RX7 aside from the FD (which was barely faster even with twin turbos) and they all had their own sets of problems. Also, a Turbo II or an FD is not much lighter than an RX-8 Sport.
The RX-8 is also far from complex and is very easy to work on.
Engine bearing failue was never really a problem and is quite rare actually.
The coolant level float issue is minor and cheap to fix (you can buy a new one with or without the level sensor).
O2 sensor failure is also uncommon and the O2 sensors typically only go bad with age on higher mileage engines (mine were replaced at over 100,000 miles).
The reason there are dummy gauges is because typical owners are ignorant and would go to the dealer anytime the gauge move from where it normally sits (this is why it was eliminated on cars such as the Miata).
You sent Mazda an email? My RX-8 will be 12 years old next month. Yes I have been thru four engines in that time and 143,000 miles but my car is also heavily modified so I don't expect great reliability. That said, the Series I Renesis has flaws that were mostly addressed on the Series II Renesis so they did fix most of the issues IMO, just a bit too late.
But plenty of people have had mostly troublefree ownership, the RX-8's reliability largely depends on how the car was treated during it's lifetime. I have had a number of issues with mine but nothing I could not handle and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Did you buy your car new or used?
When did you buy your car, if you bought it used?
All of these issues with the car have been known about for, what, 10 years now?
Posted here pretty much every single day for 10 years.
And if you bought your car in the last couple of years, you really don't have any reason to complain about it now. You should have done your research before you bought the car.
It was designed and built on a budget back in 2003.
It was intended for people have 4 seats, that could actually fit real humans.
It was designed to be very enjoyable to drive.
It was not designed to live a long life, and be as reliable as a Toyota Camry, or as easy to modify as a Dodge Charger.
If you want a better car, go build yourself a Caterham, or an Arial Atom, but you still can't seat 4 people. But, you will have easy to work on, long lived reliability, and good handling.
Most of my warranty claims on mine were small things... oil leak, clicking in rear suspension, clutch pedal, shift **** kept breaking. I only had one blow up due to mazdas oiling issues (mine was a 2005 model but 2004 build).
the second motor was replaced because front seal was leaking and the tech stripped the main bolt and motor had to be replaced.
third engine I blew up.... turbocharged life 30k miles ALL turbo... I connected my external wastegate incorrectly and over boosted. EASILY could have gone double had I not detonated (Based on my tear down and visual inspection). everything looks darn good internally.
Cliffkemp, Besides the top class at Le Mans, most racing sanctioning bodies have not "banned" the rotary per say. What they do often require for production-based race cars is that the manufacturer still be selling the car or similar within the past three years. So for example the competitive and often winning three-rotor tube-frame RX8s in Tudor had no future with their cars once Mazda ended RX8 sales, so they went to the skyactive diesel to base their new race car, since the diesel is sold in some world markets. People don't realize that Mazda rotaries have won in lower classes at Le Mans since 1991's top class win.
A stock RX-8 is faster than an old Turbo II or any old RX7 aside from the FD (which was barely faster even with twin turbos) and they all had their own sets of problems. Also, a Turbo II or an FD is not much lighter than an RX-8 Sport.
I think Rx8s are pretty great but an FD being barely faster? That is not true at all.
As far as the weight, FDs were 2789 lbs with a full tank of gas. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the rx8 a tad over 3k lbs and isn't that with an empty tank?
The R3 has a curb weight of 3079 lbs IIRC, and it's one of the heaviest models you can get (besides the AT ones, which don't exist and shall never be spoken of again).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this: the lightest RX-8 would have to be an '04 Sport 6MT, and that's 3029 lbs per Google.
"Curb weight" has various definitions AFAIK, but I'm pretty sure all definitions include all fluids and most or all of a tank of gas.
I think Rx8s are pretty great but an FD being barely faster? That is not true at all.
As far as the weight, FDs were 2789 lbs with a full tank of gas. Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the rx8 a tad over 3k lbs and isn't that with an empty tank?
A stock FD runs a 13.8-14.0 in the 1/4 with an experienced driver.
A stock RX-8 runs a 14.2-14.4 in the 1/4 with an experienced driver.
Also, a stock FD and a stock FD run very similar times at Leguna Seca with an experienced driver.
Also, my 2004 Touring(moonroof, DSC, etc) with MS kit, turbo kit, S2 trans, multiple aluminum reservoirs, gauges, additional coolers, pumps, 19" wheels and tires, etc. etc. etc. weighed 3100lbs with 3/4 tank of gas.
A Sport with a full tank bone stock can be in the 2850 range IIRC. My buddies 04' GT (leather, heated seats) with NAV weighed in at 3040 on the same day but with less fuel so we calculated that he would weigh about the same as me with 3/4 tank of gas. So basically adding all the stuff to my car made it go from a Touring to a GT in terms of weight.
This is my buddies, he did the test on one pad, i did mine on two to see what the weight was front and rear. His is a 2004 GT with NAV, Burn out kit, 18 x 10" Forgestars with 265/35-18 Pilot sports, front and rear GT spec strut bars, but other than than that all his other mods (AEM, SOHN reservoir/adapter, SARX coilovers, SARX aluminum under tray, etc) should weigh about the same as the stock parts that came off.
A stock FD runs a 13.8-14.0 in the 1/4 with an experienced driver.
A stock RX-8 runs a 14.2-14.4 in the 1/4 with an experienced driver.
Also, a stock FD and a stock FD run very similar times at Leguna Seca with an experienced driver.
That is a significant difference in time. Not surprised about a stock FD running a similar time to an RX8. A stock FD from factory and suspension were poor and the 8 chassis is great. I totally agree with you hear.
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
A Sport with a full tank bone stock can be in the 2850 range IIRC. My buddies 04' GT (leather, heated seats) with NAV weighed in at 3040 on the same day but with less fuel so we calculated that he would weigh about the same as me with 3/4 tank of gas. So basically adding all the stuff to my car made it go from a Touring to a GT in terms of weight.
That's still a good amount heavier though even if your math is right.
So if an FD runs a 14.0 and an RX-8 runs a 14.2 that is a significant difference in time? Hardly, as I have seen plenty of stock FD's run mid 14's and RX-8's run even slower times, it is all about the driver and tires. Considering the FD has twin turbos I don't think a couple of tenths is a significant difference.
As for weight, well I know what I have seen on scales and I have seen RX-8 Base Sports in the 2900lb range with driver (weight varies I know) and a full tank of gas. There is a thread here on it and I have seen FD's with driver and a full tank of gas in that range. We will be weighing my buddies Turbo 2005 Base Sport (no moonroof, no Bose, No TCS/DSC, etc) and my other buddies 93' FD R2 (leather, single turbo, FEED kit, etc.) here pretty soon so that should be a good comparison. But the weight differences overall are insignificant IMO, Maybe less than 100lbs if you are comparing a base FD to a base RX-8 depending on fuel level because the FD carries five more gallons of fuel, or about 30lbs more fuel than an RX-8.
Holy ****, my brain is hurting from the OP's whining, lack of basic thought, and a total lack of grammar.
I love how OP thinks that majority shareholder must have more than 50% of the shares. Ford owned roughly 34%, I think, at the peak of their control over Mazda, before slowly weaning Mazda back off of their training wheels.
So if an FD runs a 14.0 and an RX-8 runs a 14.2 that is a significant difference in time? Hardly, as I have seen plenty of stock FD's run mid 14's and RX-8's run even slower times, it is all about the driver and tires. Considering the FD has twin turbos I don't think a couple of tenths is a significant difference.
You're right about it being the driver and tires. This is why we try to go by professional times. Even then you will have a discrepancy. We can pop up times till we are blue in the face but I think we can both agree that a stock FD will have a faster time and yea, .2 seconds is significant. Also, the FD surely had twins but it also had older tires that were considered not so great even back then. As we both know, tires are incredibly important.
Originally Posted by 9krpmrx8
As for weight, well I know what I have seen on scales and I have seen RX-8 Base Sports in the 2900lb range with driver (weight varies I know) and a full tank of gas. There is a thread here on it and I have seen FD's with driver and a full tank of gas in that range. We will be weighing my buddies Turbo 2005 Base Sport (no moonroof, no Bose, No TCS/DSC, etc) and my other buddies 93' FD R2 (leather, single turbo, FEED kit, etc.) here pretty soon so that should be a good comparison. But the weight differences overall are insignificant IMO, Maybe less than 100lbs if you are comparing a base FD to a base RX-8 depending on fuel level because the FD carries five more gallons of fuel, or about 30lbs more fuel than an RX-8.
100 lbs or not, in a light car, it matters. You tell me that rx8 base sports is 100% stock then you might have something but even so, 100lbs is significant. I've seen an FD that weights 2295 lbs but that wasn't stock and that hardly means anything in a discussion like this. We are discussing stock only cars right? A discussion about modded cars is pointless.
Either way, I'm not trying to say the rx8 sucks. It doesn't. I just disagree with your assessment that those times and the weight is insignificant.
I have been drag racing for 20 years, .2 is nothing unless you are seriously competing. And yes bone stock there is not much of a difference in weight between a FD and RX-8 overall stock. Have you ever drag raced a really fat guy? 100lbs is nothing unless it's on the wheels, especially on a street car. But we can agree to disagree.
Lets agree to disagree. Having owned both an FD and my current 40th anniversary RX8, I can tell you the FD was significantly faster in the ranges most people drive: 0-60 mph, 60-100mph. In an FD there was boost at a lower rpm than where you need to be to make real power in an RX8 and that meant faster off the line and faster response in the mid rpm range.
You would have to drive both vehicles in stock form to really compare.
I have been drag racing for 20 years, .2 is nothing unless you are seriously competing. And yes bone stock there is not much of a difference in weight between a FD and RX-8 overall stock. Have you ever drag raced a really fat guy? 100lbs is nothing unless it's on the wheels, especially on a street car. But we can agree to disagree.
.2 is significant but even still, have you actually looked at the times? The disparity is actually much larger, you cherry picked. You took the slowest FD time and the faster rx8 time.
I've done pulls with fat passengers. Yea. It's quite noticeable. Drag racing against a fat guy really doesn't have any bearing. For you to use that in the discussion, you would have to have him as a passenger and compare. With a car that is relatively low powered and like a stock FD and 8, that has a huge bearing.
Hahah we can certainly agree to disagree.
Originally Posted by gwilliams6
Lets agree to disagree. Having owned both an FD and my current 40th anniversary RX8, I can tell you the FD was significantly faster in the ranges most people drive: 0-60 mph, 60-100mph. In an FD there was boost at a lower rpm than where you need to be to make real power in an RX8 and that meant faster off the line and faster response in the mid rpm range.
You would have to drive both vehicles in stock form to really compare.
Agreed. The rx8 is definitely quick at the very high rev range. The 7 has a wider range which it makes significant power. When that second turbo goes, the car really lights up.
Last edited by Supernaut6; 06-23-2015 at 10:19 AM.
The engineering behind the car is aweful from a mechanical standpoint and not a drivers standpoint. I like the car, hence, I bought one. I grew up in a time where you checked your oil, and other fluids almost daily. My grandfather owned a service station back to the 50s.
so does a lot of folks here, whats ur point ?
The plastic top on the radiator is a bad idea as all the heating and cooling fatigues the plastic easily.
most if not all new oem made radiators are like that now. and u blame that on rotary/rx8 ?
The 3000 rpms for 6th gear is not needed as, I can still accelerate on a 6% grade with that gear. Even a 22 to 23 mile per 1000 would help on mpg and was just an issue that, I knew about buying the car and not THAT big of a deal.
interchangeable parts can go either way and not THAT big of a deal.
a 4.777 rear that is 700, 4.10 700, but a 5.125 is 1700 is just stupid.
can u name a car that u cannot accelerate with last gear ? the 6th gear is there for a reason.
Mechanical systems fail less often that electrical, hense my rx7 running just fine as it is carbed and 85 model at that with a 12a with a whopping 105 whp and is thrashed constantly with 140k miles, no oil pump (premix religiously).
fails less often because there arent as much sensors and such to detect them. and most of the ppl can go over 150K miles on these engines with MUCH more than ur rx7 can offer, like airbags and such, plus and it has 80-100% more horse.
97 and 98 talons had reprogrammable computers and, not an issue and were cheaper than the rx8 or about the same given inflation and trim model
Rx8 computer is programmable, it's just that market is small.
What does ford have to do with the rx8. Ford was a shareholder, not a decision maker. If ford owned more than 50%, I would agree with that statement but, being a shareholder and making decisions are 2 different things. Ford never, in mazda's history, owned mazda, other than shares. Just as in the 90s, ford did share platforms with mazda to cut down costs but the rx7 and rx8 platforms were never shared by either company. Mazda did use a few parts to complete the rx8 but, never had a say-so in the production.... Just like mitsubishi and chrysler of the late 80s and 90s. I hear this BS all the time and it is not true at all.
are you serious? you don't need more than 50% to be able to make decisions. back then Ford has 33% and that's 50% more than the 2nd biggest share holder. It was sumitomo bank I think ? like 16-17% ? and when you have biggest Shares, u CAN make decisions, they need more than 33% to overthrown you BUT in corporate world that's hard to accomplish.
5-20 is a thin oil, regardless of manmade or dug out of the ground. Thin oil is a bad idea for anything that has fast moving parts like the rotary does. I could see this in F1 due to very extremely tight clearances but, production cars do not even compare in this one.
that's EPA and CAFE, you should thank them. in Japan and rest of the world they use 5w30
the 2 stroke could go either way.... if you have a reservoir for it and put a light on the dash for it as well, people with a brain would know. If not, mazda does not have to warranty an idiot. Again, as stated at the top, I grew up around people that ACTUALLY paid attention to fluids and tire pressure and what have you. The general public, being as car illiterate as they are, is no excuse. They are way too lazy, these days and is why I hear the BS about the rotary 'uses oil' all cars do but the rotary is designed to unless you premix then, it will use that oil and not crankcase oil. Problem solved. If people do not understand this, point them to a car that is less complicated, in their capacity, to own and call it a day.
you overestimate the general public. most ppl just expect cars to be something like "get in, drive it, forget it", they will NOT bother to look at the manual, hell some ppl got Rx8 without even know wtf Rotary engine is.
I do like my 8, I was so optimistic when, I heard that the 1.6 might be coming as, I defended the rotary on youtube and in person all the time. I, truly, believe that, if Mazda spent more time and, unfortunately in this economy, money, the rotary could overcome its issues with larger rotors that are narrower to give more tq and still keep efficiency, as well as, direct injection and a more powerful ignition system. They have, yet, to try rotor cut off with a 3 or even 4 rotor.... Many things have not been tried with today's metal mix and technology. We may never know now and Mazda releases what they want people to know. It is what it is.
they did correct most issues in S2. hell try to get a first year model Camry u gonna be crying.
Yes, I like my DSM cars as, they are good cars from a time where there was a transition going on. 90s cars were lighter but, starting to put on weight, less reliant of electronics so, can run with or without an 02 sensor... in the case of my DSMs, good handling for their day, awd for traction, hatchback for hauling, within reason, ability to be modded fairly cheaply with huge payoffs in performance and a following similar to that of the rx cars. This why I own both.
except that there are lots of blown DSM cars, no one make a fuss about it cuz it's just ... regular cars, Rotary being different so whenever soemthing happens, ppl make a big deal about it, but is it really that bad? I don't think so.
My reason for not liking mazda (not the 8 itself) is because, they did not learn from their mistakes from the rx7.... yes some things were improved and kudos to those improvements but, for the people like me and others, weight, some engineering and some things on the car that make you go hmmmmm... It could have been better.....
it's not perfect, but which one is really ?
Case in point, miata. It was about to get bad but, Mazda did the right thing and went back to the miata's roots... light weight again, smaller car, and back to the essence of driving. The rx7 was just the big brother. The rx8 lost focus and, therefore, failed. 3000gt... failed. supra... failed, celica.... failed, eclipse, failed.
Rx8 came this way because of Ford. U gotta study some history.
I could go on on all the cars that lost their focus. (no pun intended on ford as the escort was first)
because simple car makes the most money, why would you wanna make Complicated cars when most ppl just need 4 wheels, an engine, steering wheel to go ?
Just as all major companies that are involved in racing, have a successful car that got them there, Mazda lost focus on the rx cars when the 8 was born. It was the rx7 that, caught mazda up with porsche in wins... it was the rx7 that dominated the scca in the 80s and early 90s when it was more focused.
because Mazda does not have money, it's just a mid-small size company in Japan. they simply don't have the dough to keep up, if Honda had to get out of F1 due to money issue, what makes u Think Mazda can keep pumping money into sports car R&D when they KNOW that they will not sell a lot of them ?
I do love my 8, even with the issues it has. I do get frustrated, just like many others, too.
I ask that you do not flame me, just because I posted my opinion about the car and its shortcomings that, could have been addressed over the last 9 years. Some, maybe not as easily as others, true.
Claiming I 'failed' is rather rude. If you cannot have a civilized discussion and just say people fail or flame them, very rude.
Maybe mazda will come out with another rotary in the near future. I hope so as, I would think about buying one. The 8, Mazda doomed it after the 'revamp' in 09 by not addressing several issues that, people who buy the cars because of what they are and not just to go from a to b. It is the same reason the evo has fallen too.
try S2 first before you comment.
Evo failed because Mitsubishi does not have money same as Mazda, if it wasn't Toyota, Subaru would have fold(Fuji Heavy Industries), same reason.
so does a lot of folks here, whats ur point ? True and they are not the ones fussing either. they do like me and check everything but, 100 to 1 as far as owners go. You said it with a comment below and just answered this one different
most if not all new oem made radiators are like that now. and u blame that on rotary/rx8 ? not in 2004 and, last time I checked, they were still failing and for that reason and many others, I have not bought a new car since 2006, the 8.
can u name a car that u cannot accelerate with last gear ? the 6th gear is there for a reason. ??? Not sure where you are going with that?? Again, my 105 hp rx7 can accelerate in 5th and gets over 20 mpg with the same ratio 5th as the 8's 6th with half the hp and 1/3 less tq. This is why you shift to go faster. If not for magazines 40-60 in top gear text, would not be an issue and mazda would have done a better 6th gear but, all the mags bitched about passing without having to change gears. Come on now....
fails less often because there arent as much sensors and such to detect them. and most of the ppl can go over 150K miles on these engines with MUCH more than ur rx7 can offer, like airbags and such, plus and it has 80-100% more horse.
airbags are junk.... I have been hit by one without being in an accident and that has nothing to do with the motor. People who do maintenance get 150k miles and sensors do not do much for people who take care of their cars.... I can tell you first hand as I have 5 right now. Most sensors are for the people that do not do maintenance just like the oil filter %.... it is junk, it is just divided by the mileage for the next change. ex. if it says 50%, and change is every 4k miles, means you have gone about 2k. My brother and mom have a honda and that is all it is. Even our 8's oil pressure is BS. It is just a dummy gauge. I know cause my 7s oil pressure goes from 30 to70 based on rpms and temp... the 8s just says you have op and stays at a fixed point. If mazda really wanted to help, put an AFR gauge, exhaust temp, and real oil pressure and real temp gauge in the car and have the digital readout say what is wrong instead of hooking up an aftermarket OBD
Rx8 computer is programmable, it's just that market is small. I have DSM link that can do anything I want to my talons and eclipse with programmable chip....I can even change the factory program as well. Tell me how that is going on the rx8???? You can piggyback the system but you cannot change the actual program of any aspect of the computer yet without paying huge amounts of money... Dsm link was 500 dollars total. Cobb cannot even beat that and is a piggyback. How mainstream is the reprogram?? its not. I can send my cpu to RB or have a few 8 gurus send me a program for the cpu. you cannot even change cpu's out cause they are chassis specific!!!!
are you serious? you don't need more than 50% to be able to make decisions. back then Ford has 33% and that's 50% more than the 2nd biggest share holder. It was sumitomo bank I think ? like 16-17% ? and when you have biggest Shares, u CAN make decisions, they need more than 33% to overthrown you BUT in corporate world that's hard to accomplish. Ok, you need to go to school to understand this.... voting on a proxy that says how the execs are going to be compensated and making business decisions are 2 DIFFERENT things. Share holders do not have a say so in day to day business. You have never owned stock before, have you!!!! Your comment above is just stupid. You have no idea and just like many others, you think owning stock means you can tell the company what to do. Even if Ford owned 50.1%, they could do NOTHING other than vote yes or no on execs compensation, and the general direction of the company based on keeping people on the board of directors.
that's EPA and CAFE, you should thank them. in Japan and rest of the world they use 5w30. EPA and CAFE can kiss my rear. I use 10-40 and 5-30, depending on the time of the year. I premix as well and could care less the mpg and do care about my bearings and gears. I keep my oil changed all the time. I did the 5-20 under warranty and, the motor failed. Doing it my way now and, motor is doing well in both the 7 and 8 and the 7 does not use the metering pump at all now.
you overestimate the general public. most ppl just expect cars to be something like "get in, drive it, forget it", they will NOT bother to look at the manual, hell some ppl got Rx8 without even know wtf Rotary engine is. Why are you making excuses for them??? are you one of them??? That is the whole problem with people these days, they dont take responsibility for their actions. I read my book, and it is a book these days, and I pay attention. I do not make excuses for peoples ignorance or stupidity.
they did correct most issues in S2. hell try to get a first year model Camry u gonna be crying. Funny, I have the first year talon, running good except rings after running on a 15 year build with 350hp. Still running right now with no issues except power-steering hose leak... I have a series 2 motor in my car right now. The 02 sensor is the same in both, drive by wire is the same in both, cpu is basically the same in both, as far as programming, burst plastic part is the same issue, even s2 motors are failing if the omp is not working right but, not throwing a code....as mine did the first time around but, said hell with it and premixed to be safe. What did they correct? they changed the suspension, added 2 oil sprayers which means crap if they get clogged and no code to shut motor down. S2 have issues too, many are the same as s1. I can work on my car so, still going to keep it running, just pointing out things.
except that there are lots of blown DSM cars, no one make a fuss about it cuz it's just ... regular cars, Rotary being different so whenever soemthing happens, ppl make a big deal about it, but is it really that bad? I don't think so. Blown DSM cars are people upping the boost and not knowing what they are doing. I see them all the time at shows and drag events. Yes, people make fun of the rotary and, I defend it to this day... change valves, none, change timing belt, not one, work on head, not one.... much simpler but, people, who do not understand them bitch about oil use, I try to educate them, same for mpg.... Look it up on 350z vs rx8 on the aussie uphill climb...see my comments.... I put this thread cause, mazda had years to fix the mpg due to the short 6th gear and didn't. Same for the oil use and be able to use full synthetic but, think like you and assume every buyer is an idiot and try to make it dummy proof. Instead, they could keep making the 8 as a low production sports car for the purists like the viper and zr1 and other cars. They could have changed many things, got the 16x running much sooner and make it an option. (topic for another day)
it's not perfect, but which one is really ? none are but mazda is shooting themselves in the foot with the rotary but, its their foot so, oh well
Rx8 came this way because of Ford. U gotta study some history. I get so tired of this one...read my comment above. Ford has NOTHING to do with the rotary cars...ZERO. They are a shareholder. The only cars they can have a sayso with are the cars that share platforms and the 8 didnt not share platforms with any ford but, used a few parts and mazda could have not done that. Just like Pontiac did what they wanted, despite GM in the 60s and early 70s, and GM could tell Pontiac what to do and shut them down years ago, Ford CANNOT EVER, tell mazda what to do or where to go or anything. I know my history and know what being a shareholder means. Been a shareholder of many companies over the years. Anyone that is on the board and shares views that ford execs have at ford and tries to impliment them at mazda, that can happen. mazda would be a fool to let that happen though... if mazda does not stand out with their products and make something different than ford, people are going to buy ford and then, mazda will go bankrupt. Ford can do NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING as a shareholder to change mazda other than vote on what the board proposes on proxies. By the way, Ford sold shares in mazda to own only 13% while GM and chrysler took public loans. ford sold these shares to not take a loan. read your history...
because simple car makes the most money, why would you wanna make Complicated cars when most ppl just need 4 wheels, an engine, steering wheel to go ? Tell that to the engineers.... If the EPA, CAFE, and OSHA (have their good points at times) had not mandated so much stuff like airbags (I may regret not having mine but, that is MY CHOICE) and other things (some things should be, no doubt so do not go crazy on this one) cars can be simpler. my 7, you can see the ground, motor (cause i took most of the useless junk off) and much easier to work on than any other car I own and is the oldest. The carb does not care what the 02 sensor says cause, it does not have one. I got it tuned and keep it that way. It does not have a drive by wire system that has sensors to detect failure, no solenoids to fail. I even have 2 electric fans on it that I have to turn on manually or it will overheat. it has a real oil pressure gauge, real alternator gauge (8 does not even have that and I have bought 2 batteries..... where was the light on that?????)
because Mazda does not have money, it's just a mid-small size company in Japan. they simply don't have the dough to keep up, if Honda had to get out of F1 due to money issue, what makes u Think Mazda can keep pumping money into sports car R&D when they KNOW that they will not sell a lot of them ? That is just it, the rotary is not that new anymore, Mazda was holding back and, they knew it. mazda does not have much money due to stupid execs and not r&d. In the 90s, they had the eunos that had an optional 20b tt and did not sell it in the US. They could have but, they didnt, partly due to the economy but, mazda had better technology back then and just sat on it. Bet you didnt know that the 4 rotor was going to go into a vette in the 70s either. Mazda has yet to put direct injection into the rotary but, has been around for over a decade. Same with the exhaust overlap on the plug side although, they did fix the overlap of the exhaust with the side ports. Did you know, they already knew about the side ports more than 20 years ago but, didnt want to make it mainstream... papers are out there, just like the bathtub size and placement... its all out there if you know where to look and I could go on.
try S2 first before you comment. The only real change on the s2 is the addition of 2 sprayers for oil. they spray more evenly since there are 2. motors still fail if you do not premix a little. I premix a good bit to be on the safe side but had 30k miles of no premix due to warranty and it is running good but, in the high 8s on compression so, need I say more.
Evo failed because Mitsubishi does not have money same as Mazda, if it wasn't Toyota, Subaru would have fold(Fuji Heavy Industries), same reason.
Evo failed cause they did away with the 4g63 motor and made the 4b11 and it is not as good and not as supported in the aftermarket. It is a cookie cutter car as, you can still buy a lancer. Who is going to buy an evo that weighs 3500 lbs, 36k dollars when, you can buy a DSM for almost a 1/10 of that and for about 7k dollars total and a little know how, you can make a 10 second talon, laser, eclipse or older evo and smoke just about anything on the street and have awd.... Which option do you think i did. No one likes the twin clutch auto and you can get a used gtr for the price of a new evo and have a better car. Why do you think Shep, Jacks transmissions, and a few others service gtr trans and motors now. Heck, Shep does not even do DSMs any more unless evos (not many want anymore) He does gtrs now. Subaru holds their value better as, people do not mod them as much as they do evo, they cannot take it. the boxer engine sucks (their are 3 down the street from me from time to time) since they cannot take power as easy as a 4g63, the owners keep them longer so, they hold their value better cause people are not blowing them up and not as old of a platform as the DSM cars and evo. Mitsubishi does not care about the evo and eclipse, hence their demise.
I will say this much about mazda. Mazda has made their name in racing.... in saying that, the rx7 gave mazda more wins in scca racing than any other car before or since and was picking porsche off in the 80s. The 90s brought about the miata and racing roots as, it was light and nimble, a real drivers car just like the rx7 of the 80s was. Mazda started losing their face in the 2000s and the 8 was not helping cause it was not a true sports car (look at how lotus is doing with the evora, heavy and not lotus roots). Mazda is trying their new approach with more ebb and flow cars and, I hope it works. The 80s were proven for the 7. Now that mazda is coming back out with a roots type miata, I hope that saves them but, it was the rotary that, gave them their fame as, more mazdas race on the weekend and mazda is the second winningest maker behind porsche in scca racing, thanks to the rotary. Mazda can market the rotary in other uses to keep it alive and tweak for car use, even if low production sports car with the roots of the winningest model of the 80s and early 90s. Once again, specialty cars are on the way out except for big v8s cause people these days that have the money are the retirees that grew up in the 60s... the 70s and 80s sports cars are coming around soon. Mazday needs to take heed of this and take all that knowledge about the rotary and make something that I will buy in the coming decade. Thanks to CAFE and EPA, that may not happen.
Question for you, do you honestly think that, a charger hellcat or, zr-1, or even bugatti veyron, at full gallop, would pass emissions???? not a chance in hell. These cars rarely see that kind of use so they pass. the rotary's only flaw is oil use that it must have but, if they used 2 stroke oil, this could change for the 16x along with direct injection and better ignition. We may never know.
Holy ****, my brain is hurting from the OP's whining, lack of basic thought, and a total lack of grammar.
I love how OP thinks that majority shareholder must have more than 50% of the shares. Ford owned roughly 34%, I think, at the peak of their control over Mazda, before slowly weaning Mazda back off of their training wheels.
rudeness.... dont like it and, if you are getting a headache, why are you reading it and even here if, you cannot say something constructive.
also, you know nothing about business. Even 50% only gives you the ability to vote yes or no on your proxy to either agree or disagree on what the board put on the proxy. Ford never 'controlled', 'owned' or could do anything about mazda's business decisions except to vote their shares.
Go and read up on how shareholding works and stop sounding like an idiot. My grammar is not perfect but then, no one's is. My shift key does not work well so, I do not get the capitals all the time and, if you cannot read my posts, you have other issues.
I could be as rude as you but, not going to be. I have owned stock for over 20 years. I have voted and know how it works. Before you keep saying things that, are not true, find out the truth. Your ignorance is much worse than my grammar when you spit out what you hear and not check for accuracy.
cliffkemp, on the point about whether you hate the car: It all makes sense now that you've explained it. In fairness to your critics, the thread title does imply that the RX-8 deserved to have its sales drop, and the first post is almost entirely a list of negative things about the car. Not going to say that justifies the one personal attack here (i.e. "OP fails so hard"). Just saying it's not unreasonable that people marked you as a hater.
That said, I agree with your follow-up: either engage constructively or ignore the thread.
Thank you. The 'fail' and other comments like it are just opinion and rude remarks. I am hoping that Mazda will come up with a car that addresses many of the weaknesses of main-stream cars. I did not buy an 8 due to hating it. I do love the car. It is the best all-around car, in my opinion and, I listed the issues that caused sales to go down over the years due to experience. Dealers are just as much at fault for not educating rotary buyers and just being frank with them. I respect a dealer that is up front with me over one that is just out to get a sale.
As I posted earlier, on the shareholder thing: Even though Ford didn't have a majority stake, their managers ran Mazda for many years. That's the point.
Did you buy your car new or used?
When did you buy your car, if you bought it used?
All of these issues with the car have been known about for, what, 10 years now?
Posted here pretty much every single day for 10 years.
And if you bought your car in the last couple of years, you really don't have any reason to complain about it now. You should have done your research before you bought the car.
It was designed and built on a budget back in 2003.
It was intended for people have 4 seats, that could actually fit real humans.
It was designed to be very enjoyable to drive.
It was not designed to live a long life, and be as reliable as a Toyota Camry, or as easy to modify as a Dodge Charger.
If you want a better car, go build yourself a Caterham, or an Arial Atom, but you still can't seat 4 people. But, you will have easy to work on, long lived reliability, and good handling.
BC.
I bought the car brand new. I do not use it to go fast as, I have dsm cars that are much faster with 350 to 550 awhp for that. My 8 is my touring car and it has done well, for the most part. Do not jump to conclusions, please.
As I posted earlier, on the shareholder thing: Even though Ford didn't have a majority stake, their managers ran Mazda for many years. That's the point.
Mazda managers ran mazda. Ford managers ran Ford. Shares had nothing to do with it but, in your defense, since ford and mazda shared platforms on other cars, I am sure there was some influence but, from a share standpoint, not even relevant.
That was my point.
Just as Pontiac was shut down by GM, only Mazda can change anything at Mazda. Shareholder and an owner are 2 very different things.
That has been my point cause, all I have heard is, Ford owns Mazda and that is not true. That has NEVER been true. Influence is another story and, I am sure that goes on with Ford and Mazda, just like Chevrolet and Dodge in the mid 90s as, they shared transmissions on cavalier and neon and others, back then. I believe Ford and Mazda do the same thing in some of their cars for transmission and engines, as far as, suppliers go.
06-18-2015, 06:51 AM
My RX-8 will be 12 years old next month. Yes I have been thru four engines in that time and 143,000 miles but my car is also heavily modified so I don't expect great reliability. That said, the Series I Renesis has flaws that were mostly addressed on the Series II Renesis so they did fix most of the issues IMO, just a bit too late.
