Blue_Chameleon

I'm pretty sure that there are a million articles on the web about rotarys but I want the Cliff Notes version of it. I just have a bunch of questions that I know only you guys/gals would know:

- Why was the RX7 only in production for three years and then it stopped producing it?

- Does Mazda have the rights to the rotary? Why doesn't anybody else have them? Is it an R&D issue?

- Why did Mazda suddenly decide to put out the RX8? Would they end up stopping production early just like how they did with the RX7?

- And was there ever an RX1, RX2, RX3, etc...that actually made it to production into a vehicle? I'm sure there were prototypes, but I'm curious if it ever made it mainstream like the RX7 and seems like the RX8 now.

mysql101

Try reading up here:

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/history.html#LIN

mysql101

And http://www.mazdarx8.co.uk/rotary/rot...ocumentid=1332

dcfc3s

Since I feel like typing...

The RX-7 wasn't made for 3 years - the 1st generation RX-7 came out in 1979 to record sales. Rotary engine, super lightweight, handled great, good looking, reliable, and dirt cheap. Dealerships were selling them as they rolled off the transporter - they were a huge hit.

The 1st gen was made from '79 to '85. The 2nd generation debuted as an '86 model, and was made until '91. It was slightly more upscale, with more features and options, more power, and a turbo was available. Again, the car sold very well (especially the '86-88 models), was known for its reliability, great handling, light weight, and price. The '89-91 RX-7's started going up in price point somewhat - while they still sold well, they were getting more expensive.

In the US, there was no '92 RX-7 - they continued selling the '91s and introduced the 3rd generation RX-7 as an early '93 model. The 3rd gen was, as some magazines put it, a race car with a license plate stuck on the back - twin turbo, phenomenal chassis, gorgeous design. The car won numerous awards and the '93 model sold quite well. Some people shied away from the standard turbos, though - there was no non-turbo model offered.

As the '94 and '95 models came out, the yen was doing poorly against the dollar, and the price went up considerably. The high price (I believe around $40k in early '90s dollars) slowed sales considerably. It was questionable whether Mazda was going to sell the '96 models in the US, and OBD-II was the final straw. All '96 model cars sold in the US had to have the OBD-II computer diagnostics, and Mazda would have had to design a rotary-specific OBD-II system (considerable cash outlay) for a model that was selling poorly. So, they stopped US exports.

The 3rd generation RX-7 continued to be sold in Japan, and was available until the 2001 model year, with two major updates done (one in '96, and one in '99, I think). The updates refined the car, did some subtle body restyling, and uprated the power output.

That's the RX-7 story in a nutshell. If you're a new RX-8 owner, I HIGHLY recommend getting one of the great RX-7 history books - Mazda RX-7: Sports Car Color History by John Matras, and RX-7: Mazda's Rotary Engine Sports Car by Brian Long (which has the RX-8 in it too). Both these books are great reading, the one by Long being the best, IMHO.

Next question - why doesn't anyone else make a rotary powered car? If you look at the top of a rotor housing on a Mazda rotary engine (probably can't see it without removing a lot of stuff) there's a casting that says "License: NSU Wankel". Mazda licensed the technology from NSU (the German company that first developed Felix Wankel's idea), as did many other car manufacturers. GM was actually going to make their entire car lineup rotary powered in the 70's - they had a number of prototype cars, including a 4-rotor Corvette. The gas crisis in the early 70's and the rotary's excessive fuel consumption (which is MUCH better now, BTW) scared them off of the project.

The rotary engine, being a whole new design, had a LOT of engineering problems. Only Mazda had the wherewithal to stick with it, burning a lot of midnight oil to make the rotary viable in a production car. Mazda is now so far ahead with their rotary designs, other manufacturers would have a tough time to catch up. But, the rotary is really best suited for a particular application - a sports car. The high-revving nature, light weight, and small package lend itself to a sportscar beautifully.

Next question - Mazda didn't suddenly decide to start producing the RX-8. It's been cooking on the burner for a VERY long time - the RX-01, which was a prototype in the mid-nineties, was supposed to be the next rotary powered car. That's about the time Mazda wasn't doing well financially, Ford stepped in, and killed the project. But, many Mazda designers knew the rotary was the soul of Mazda, and continued working on the next rotary powered car in their spare time - that project became the RX-Evolv. Mazda decided they needed a sports car with some measure of practicality to appeal to a wider range of buyers than the 3rd gen did. The RX-8 was given the green light, and that's what we have now.

I doubt the RX-8 will be killed off soon - sales have been strong, they're selling them as fast as they can make them. The rumor is if the RX-8 proves the point well, it will be the precursor to another 2-seater rotary powered sports car - a new RX-7, or an RX-9 as one rumor source called it.

There were other "numbers" in the RX family - in the 70s, there was the RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, and Cosmo, which was also called the RX-5. Mazda thought RX-6 had a funny ring to it, and 7 is a lucky number, so RX-7 became the name of the sports car. There was also a rotary pickup in the '70s (rotary nuts call it the "REPU", for Rotary Engine Pick Up) and some weirder things in Japan, like a rotary powered bus, of all things.

Anyhow, that's a nickel tour. If you ever read the Long book, you'll really get a good understanding about Mazda and the rotary - no kidding, that motor is really the soul of the company, and brought Mazda from a small company to a major manufacturer.

Dale

GiN

Cliff's Notes on Rotaries - Re-Abridged by Me:

The last model RX-7 was in production between 1992 and 2002 - that's TEN years (rivaling Porsche's longevity with their chassis updates) but they were sold in the United States only for 3 years due to lack to sales.

Mazda is not the only company that makes rotary engines. It is the only company that bothers putting them in CARS.

Mazda came out with the RX-8 in the form of various prototypes even while the RX-7 was still in production.

Here is a small collage of a few Mazda rotaries that have been produced since the 60's just to give you an idea of what sort of heritage lies behind the RX-8.

Top to bottom: Cosmo (first Mazda rotary), R-100, RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, RX-5, JC Cosmo (3 rotor), Cosmo 2000 (Renesis concept), RX-01 (Renesis concept)

Riccio

Thanks to Dale and Gin for their interesting history lessons!

Great reading and GREATLY appreciated.

Blue_Chameleon

Most definitely! That's my kind of history...enough info to be interested, but not too much to send me into la-la land.

agoodcave

I am sure there are better experts out there, but this is what I remember....

Actually, you are confusing the last model of the Rx-7. The RX-7 was introduced in 1977 or 1978 ( I can't quite remember). It was a small 2-seater hatchback and was billed as an entry level sports car. It was extremely popular and sold well (sort of like the miata now days). I had a chance to buy one in 81 but went with a Celica instead....

That initial body style stayed until '84 or '85. A new RX-7 was introduced the following year. It was bigger, had a very small back seat. various models were introduced later with convertibles and turbo's. There was also a higher price charged.
This body style was retired in '92.

'93 introduced the last body style for the US market of the Rx-7. With Mazda introducing the Miata as their entry level, they wanted the Rx-7 to be their upscaled sports car. The price was extremely high. Performance was good but the price drove sales down. They pulled the car after '95.

As to the older Rx's, yes there were RX-3's etc. in the early 70's. Like all rotaries, they had unbelievable power for their size. Unfortunately, their reliability was not there yet and you don't see them now.

I still routinely see Rx-7's from the early 80's as these were very popular.

You might go to Mazda.com, they have a nice history of the rotary engine.

Yanje

very interesting post, hehe, thx guys for the info. appreciated
alot of knowledgeble ppl here

RX-8 friend

Dale's got it right, but one thing I'll question. The OBDII reason for not selling the RX-7 in NA. They actually added it to the Japaneze model (I'm told it was also required there). The 96 got the 16 bit ECU with OBDII.
-I- think the reason it was not sold here was crash worthyness and lack of sales due to price. It couldn't pass the silly 5 MPH crash test. Adding shock bumpers wouldn't work on that car. As if anyone would ever crash an RX-7 !