DonG35Miata

My car came in today! I anxiously headed out to my Mazda dealer to see my new baby. Ever since i sat in an RX-8 last week, I have been waiting with baited breath to get mine, and got all my financial ducks in a row to take it home next week!

When I saw it sitting there in its Titanium Gray wrapper, I was speechless. No photograph has ever done it justice! I sat in the back seat and it was tighter than I thought it would be, but I am not buying it for the back seat...

Rotary accents looked awesome- well worth it. Engine cover looked great, too! My salesman came out with a plate and off I went on my test drive. As I drove it through the dealer lot, I noticed that the car felt kind of soft when I turned it and the steering did not have a lot of feel. Things were sure to improve once I got under way on the real roads.

GOD, that powertrain is unworldly! This must be what a turbine powered car would feel like. The sound, the feel, the smoothness... the best I have ever experienced, far and away. It alone is worth the price of admission.

Once I was under way, I realized I could not get comfortable no matter how I adjusted the seat. I could not get the angle between my knees and the wheel just right. I ignored this and concentrated on the drive.

As i went down the country road at 45-50 MPH, I heard the zing and purr of the rotary as I flicked through the gears- absolutely incredible. I came up on some curves and bent the car around them.

The RX-8 tracked straight and true, effortlessly. But the amount of roll/yaw from the nose of the car bothered me- as did the steering. In my car, at least, there was not much steering feel. I really fely disconnected- it did not feel nearly as good as my 1997 Miata, or even as good as my G35 or the Mini Cooper S I test drove. I was surprised as so many on here reported amazing steering feel, but then again I have read in other places the steering could use a bit more feel- and I have read everywhere about the body roll. It was worse than I expected.

By the time i had gone a few miles and turned around to drive back to the dealership, I knew that the RX-8 wasn't the car for me. It's a great car, amazing drivetrain and the ride is smooth as silk. But overall it just didn't ring my bells the way a lot of other cars did. I did not feel anything like the way I felt as I was testing the Mini Cooper S. The Mini had me grinning ear to ear, thinking, "this car is amazing- what fun- gotta have one." The RX-8 just did not bring out the feeling in me. C'est la vie. I wish it did, because it is so damn beautiful. I am kind of disappointed I won't be getting one. But I actually prefer both my G35 and my Miata when it comes to the overall drive. I am sure that is sacriedge to a lot of people on here, but that is just the way I reacted when I drove the car. Different production line variations, and different strokes for different folks!

I also prefer the Mini Cooper S to the RX-8, which I will go down and order on Tuesday. This time, I will take it home. I thought it was more fun to drive, and besides, as a FWD hatchback it provides me with some utility I don't have now. $7,000 less and better fuel economy are a bonus, too. But I was fully prepared to pay the $30K and take home the RX-8 if it wowed me. It just didn't.

The salesman asked what I thought, and I said "wonderful", i will call to set things up on Monday. There were customers around looking at the car and I did not want to dis it in front of them. On Monday, I will call and tell him the truth.

I'll still be around posting with my friends here (if I am wanted after this!) as I wait for the RX-7 to come out. I bet it will have a bit less body roll... let's hope they get the seat right, too!

jd62

I've always believed that cars are a very personal thing. You shouldn't buy one on utility, specs, or economy. Get the one that blows your skirt up! Life is short, and car buying should be a subjective thing. By the way, we love our RX-8 and have had no buyers remorse over it. Good luck and enjoy your new ride.

DonG35Miata

You said it better than I did- it is a subjective thing. Some highly acclaimed cars did not blow up my skirt- i.e. S2000. On the other hand, the 2000 VW GTI 1.8T I owned did blow up my skirt, though many complained about the body roll in VWs. I guess it is all in what strikes you.

I still think the RX-8 is a great car, and I think it is worlds better than the 350Z. It just did not strike me enough to buy it.
With less roll, a bit more steering feel, and a more comfortable seat, I think it would have.

Haris

You had miata, so what did you expect. I mean miata is like 2200 lbs. vs. 3000 lbs. in RX8. Of course it wouldn't have better feel and more fun to drive then miata. Anyways, yes, mini cooper S is awesome car. Good luck with it. Post some pics when you get it here so we can take a look. :D

rxeightr

Well.......I understand Don. And I cannot knock how you approached the purchase of your next vehicle.

What are there, 200+ different kinds of automobiles one can purchase? And all of these get sold, because each individual is an individual, and ultimately have different tastes, or what we expect our vehicle to do.

Personally, I have come to respect you & your comments on this board, and that shall not change.

My RX-8 gets better with age, as I have 1,100 miles on her now, and I am developing a symbiotic relationship with it. The handling, power & feel are what I wanted.

Maythe smiles never go away on our respectives rides.

RodsterinFL

I totally agree on the subjective choosing of an auto. Now for me the RX8 seat is like a glove and it even wraps my head (sort of).

We have a 2001 Miata SE and for me that seat is uncomfortable on a haul. I want it to go back further and to raise, etc but for the family member who owns it - its perfect.

DonG35Miata

What is kind of weird is- when I think of the RX-8 sitting there, and the sound and feel of the powertrain, I feel like I still want it! But I know how I felt during and immediately after the test drive tell the tale. It's great, but didn't give me the "gotta have it" feeling. I know when I am feeling it, I have felt it often enough to know...

Maybe it is hard to let go of... after all, I was first on my dealer's waiting list, all the way back in 1999 when the RX-Evolv came out. I was signed up to be first with the new rotary car even before the Tokyo Auto Show was over.

mac

Hey Don, I'm a little surprised that you found the Mini's seat more comfortable. Agreed they are a blast to drive, specially the Cooper S. My overwhelming concern with them is the build quality. I know you are aware of their "little" problems but as you first pointed out way back when, it's no biggie if the car has to go to the shop you have two others to choose from :p

So far after seeing two in person (red , silver) but no test drive, my remarks are it's smaller then I thought, yet so big inside. The trunk is OK, I will need new luggage tho'. They say two golf bags, hmm maybe a small set but my dad's would barely fit. It would be so much more usefull with fold down seats or lift back. The back seat looks like there is no room yet when you sit back there you don't feel cramped. I have safety concerns about someone having their feet tucked under the front seat in a collision. As to the steering, since I haven't test driven one I can't say but I am certain that I will feel the same way you do. It's too light, like so many other cars out there. I wish they would make it so that we could adjust it ourselves. I can't see it been that difficult.

Wish I was in your neck of the woods, we won't have any 6 spd Titanium GT (no nav) for quite some time.

P00Man

wow...i think youre the first to not drive and buy, though ihavnet been here in about a week or so.

mini cooper s is ok...piece of junk IMHO, but kinda cool in a kiddy kinda way, way over priced IMO, i was gunna get one a while ago, before i found out how overpriced they are. anyway, enjoy it
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DonG35Miata

Your rudeness does not really warrant a reply. Where do you get off belittling other peoples' choices in cars? Does it make you feel big?

Several people have driven the RX-8 and chosen not to buy. I am not the first.

Anyway, Brock Yates of Car and Driver and Bobby Rahal both own Mini Coopers- S models. Both can afford to drive anything they want. I figure I am in good company... :-)

revhappy

Don,
Ever consider waiting until next spring for the Lotus Elise? I don't think you will find a more nimble car than that and it should be within your price range (based on you considering a Z4 at one point).

mantisflie

It's your money Don, get what you want. That's one of the perks to living in the good ol USA. Freedom of choice. Don't let anyone's opinions/comments persuade you otherwise. I 've only been in the Cooper a couple times, and it seems nice. I think the thing that stands out the most on that car (to me) is that HUGE guage front and center. Can't remember what it is, but I can even read that thing with my glasses off! :D

DonG35Miata

i considered a Z4 for a while because I have always wanted an upscale sports car. Unfortunately, none of the ones I have test driven are as much pure fun as my Miata! (I should actually say "fortunately"... not unfortunately!)

I guess I miss having a manual transmission car I want to drive in inclement weather, or when it is chilly. If the top is not down, I do not want to drive the Miata. the RX-8 would have done it for me most of the year. The Cooper S will do it for me year round. I appreciate the recommendation, but I don't think the Elise is what i need. BTW, where can I read more about it?

Gord96BRG

One alternate consideration - as is a Miata, an RX-8 can be a canvas for you to personalise to exactly your taste. My 96 Miata had too much body roll - first mod I did was a set of FM sway bars. A couple of years later, I installed a set of Konis, even though my OEM shocks were far from worn out. Now the ride is better and the handling is better than when I first got it. I read the reviews of "too much body roll", and fully expected a slightly diluted characteristic from what I prefer. I also know that lawyers have too much say in suspension tuning, even on sports cars ("all cars must understeer, because the average driver can't manage oversteer and will crash, and subsequently will sue the company for selling an unsafe car" - to wit, the original Porsche 930 Turbos), so I expect to have to do a bit of tuning. Hell, we have an Audi allroad with the 2.7T and 6 speed manual - I've replaced the rear sway bar on that to kill the terminal understeer!

So - if all the basics are there, and it's too much roll that is the main problem - imagine when you can bolt in the equivalent of a set of FM or RB sways... not bad now, huh? Every production car is a compromise aimed at the widest market for it's target. I don't mind undoing some of those inevitable compromises, when all the basics are right.

Regards,
Gordon

ReX-8

Just went to a test drive last week, the cabin definitely feels much smaller than what I thought. But the drive was excellent, it totally feels like a sports car, especially when you gets to 6k rpm. I think it needs time to get use to the car, I believe I will love it so much after driving it for some while.
I totally understand ppl might choose other cars instead of the 8, due to their personal reasons. So choose whatever you like, and think abt it deliberately. It's bad making a wrong decision and feel regret afterwards.

I would like to get the Cooper too, but due to personal reasons, had to take it off my list. However, I feel great getting the RX-8 now.

Racer X-8

The Mini Cooper S.u.x.

Harharharhar!!! Just kidding!!

They've really grown up lately it seems... a little...

Harharharhar!!!! I can't stop! Really! I'm just kiddin man! It's gotta be some of that Pennsylvania still in me. Peace!

Uh, I do have one question if I may. You said "I still think the RX-8 is a great car, and I think it is worlds better than the 350Z." Yet, you own a G35. Wuz up wit dat!

DonG35Miata

Again, all subjective. I think the 350Z's poor visibility and the rough ride ruined it for me.

TybeeRX-8

Each to his/her own, but I drove a Mini and it is a "hoot". I think you'll find the "S" version a bit tiring on a trip of any length. Another problem with the Mini is that it has an open differential. Therefore, it doesn't do near as well in an autox as you might think. Better tires help but not much since one wheel doesn't do squat in cornering. Also, bear in mind that you can't really do much to further improve performance as yet. Even the Works version, increasing HP to 200, doesn't show that much improvement from what I've seen and read. If I lived in a big city, it would be my car. but since i don't and I travel a lot, the RX-8 will do much better in the long run. Jusy MHO.

DonG35Miata

Just got back from the Mini dealer- all his S demos have 17" wheel, which suck. Bouncy ride, worse than I remembered from my last test drive. I am going to try a base Cooper tomorrow just to see what I think of it in comparison. In the latest Road and Track, John Lamm said he drove both the Cooper S and the Cooper, and preferred the Cooper because you have to work it a little to make it go fast. As someone who enjoys winding out his Miata, I can appreciate that! Neither car is nearly as fast as a G35 anyway- a nimble Cooper with a free-revving naturally aspirated engine may be more fun around town. You can feel that supercharger drag on the engine. I'll be taking the G35 on interstate trips anyway.

norats

I wasn't expecting an rx-7 fd experience from the rx-8, because in my mind, this car for me was like a sport/luxury car & I am very happy...I compare this car to the cadillac eldorado, the last of the two-door models they recently stopped making...& I ordered it that way, with all the goodies: DSC...kinda like the STS...the only problem with the eldorado is the price & the "old guy" stigma that's attached...the RX-8 is much more modern looking and fun to drive. Plus I have this dislike thing about GM that I can't get over.
I guess my point is that we all have our own tastes and reasons for doing things...I wish you the best of luck with the mini, i see that as an entirely different kind of car than the rx-8, much closer to the miata, which you mentioned in your post....i think you'll have a blast with it & the turns in that car will be outstanding...have fun and tell us all about it!
norats

P00Man

"Your rudeness does not really warrant a reply. Where do you get off belittling other peoples' choices in cars? Does it make you feel big?

Several people have driven the RX-8 and chosen not to buy. I am not the first.

Anyway, Brock Yates of Car and Driver and Bobby Rahal both own Mini Coopers- S models. Both can afford to drive anything they want. I figure I am in good company... :-)"
-don

what do you mean "rude" i was just stating my opinion, and in my opnion, the mini cooper, in either trim, is an over priced piece of junk. sure its pretty fun, but for 30 grand its not worth it (at least that was the price for the model i spec'd way back when)

and as i said, i hadnt been back in a while so didnt know that other people had driven it and decided against it, which i mentioned, so CHILL

edit:
oops, submitted before i was done...

anyway, as i said before, have fun with it if you decide to purchase it, its your car, i really dont care what you drive, if you are happy with it, go for it
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shkeller55

Geez, Pooman, 30 grand for a Mini? Your dealer must have planned on tacking on a heck of a markup. The original owner of mine paid 2-3 grand markup, for a total of around $25k.

I'm interested in this thread because, as a former Porsche 944 owner, I like the somewhat-similar look (or silhouette anyway) of the RX-8, and thought it would be a better version of it. Better acceleration with enough room in back for my kids. But my 944 had the sport suspension so maybe I'd have to get aftermarket suspension bits to make an RX-8 handle the way I wanted.

But I needed a car 2 months ago and couldn't wait, so I bought a used 2002 Mini Cooper S with 8200 miles on it. Was in good cosmetic shape, the owner's maintenance records indicated no serious problems, the price was good and I didn't have to pay GA sales tax since it was used. It felt solid for a small car and it was lots of fun to drive.

But unfortunately I've had nothing but trouble with it. It's been in the shop 6 times now in 7 weeks of ownership. 5 times it's been because the "Service Engine Soon" light keeps coming on (aka "Check Engine" light in other cars). The latest incident was today and the flatbed has already come to get it. The dealer has consulted with BMW's engineerng group a number of times and has replaced some things, but just can't figure out what's wrong. Apparently the diagnostics their computer gets from it don't tell them enough.

Since I didn't buy it new I have no recourse under our lemon laws. So I just have to let them keep trying to fix it. Meanwhile I keep wondering if I should have just waited for an RX-8. I might have it by now, and while it would have cost me 50 percent more, I don't think it could possibly be as unreliable, so I'd have a car I could actually drive.

Don - I wish you luck if you get a Mini. Anecdotal evidence indicates that the new ones are much better. I too test-drove a regular Cooper and it seemed fine for around town driving. I just couldn't find a regular Cooper with the color and options I wanted. Let us know what you end up with. It sounds like you've thought it through and you know what you like.

revhappy

Don,
Two cars I have noticed that EVO magazine has consistently drooled about over the years have been the Elise and the EVO. Below is the link to their web site:

http://www.evo.co.uk/

Look under "Driven" and "Road Test" and you will see numerous reviews of several versions of the Elise and the EVO. People are predicting we will get something similar to the 190, which is basically an engine similar to an Integra Type R (i.e. like an S2000), but in a very light pakage (predicted to be around 1,700 lbs. here). Though, no one knows for sure what the engine will be yet.

If you can live with the looks, I would highly suggest the EVO. All weather capability, tons of torque (but not brainless in that you have to know how to work a gearbox), handles like its on rails, amazing braking and best of all incredible driving dynamics (steering, gearbox, driver position, pedal placement, etc.).
I have put a little over 600 miles on mine and its been fabulous. The scary thing is that I have barely taken it over 3,000 RPM (the power band doesn't really kick into 3,500- 4000 RPM)!

Below is another link from Road & Track where they rated the best handling cars (Elise was 2nd and the EVO VII was 4th).

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1

Other thoughts are the Volvo S60R, if you want a more upscale all-weather car, but you will sacrifice performance when compared to the Elise and EVO.

DonG35Miata

That sucks. You may want to trade the S in now and take the hit so you can get rid of it.

I have spent some time on mini2.com and minicooperonline.com the past two days and everything I read there tells me the Cooper S is not a finished piece of work, and not to be trusted. Even with two good cars in the driveway, I don't want to buy something so questionable. The base Cooper has some issues but the drivetrain seems to be OK- more little niggly things things if it has problems. I also saw a poll that shows around 50% of new 2003 Cooper owners have no problems, around 25% have some small ones, around 20% have a serious one, and about 5% have lots of problems. The 2002 model fared far worse in the poll.

I'll try a base Cooper tomorrow and if it does not do it for me, I will be standing pat with my G35 and my Miata. Maybe I can get a handling kit and an RX-8 next year... or I can use my downpayment money for a new Canon 1Ds digital SLR... or a new DP PowerMac G5 with the Apple 23" HD Studio Display... not to mention I won't be paying $325 a month for five years!

I really enjoy my G35- I had it out tonight and was having a great time. I guess I miss having a "hot hatch" and a year-round manual transmission. Too bad the latest GTIs from VW aren't so hot. I test drove a VR6 last month and it didn't have the same feel as my 2000 German-made 1.8T GTI. Wonder what they did to mess it up? Could it all be the Brazilian assembly?

P00Man

get the 25th edition! i have a deposit on one, just in case
kool car, but yeah, it aint so hot looking, probably woulda bought it that day, but it didtn really grab me. a good car for 25k, though.
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