toxin440

Hello all,

This past week I've been doing a lot of thinking on the future of my RX8 (with all my mods) vs all the delicious cars coming out in the next 1-2 years. (Mainly the GT-R and M3-V8)

Now -- i know both of these cars are wayyy higher in price/performance then the RX8. The idea ive been kicking around is dropping the money for a mazsport+tuning+a few other FI accessories in the thought that it would bring my RX8 up to a respectable level.

I know we are waiting on a dyno of Mazsports kit -- I have no doubt it could put 350+ to the wheels reliably, my question is on the torque. How close to 300 ft-lbs of torque would you guess?

One thought ive had is the fact that if I were to try to bump up my RX8 to M3 levels, since the M3 would way more (gussing 500lbs more) I wouldnt need to match (exactly) the 400+HP level to be competetive with said M3 V8, correct?

Now thinking in terms of price... i know at the bare minimum I will probably be spending $15K (mazsport turbo + a few other goodies). Thinking in terms of total monetary value (value of car + money I spend) = $35,000

The real cost to buy a BMW M3-V8 when it comes out would be reduced by $35000 from my perspective. So assuming I get an M3 V8 for 65K out the door - the TRUE cost above and beyond upgrading the a Mazsport for me would be $30,000.


My real question - could my RX8 ever be made to compete with the coming M3 with the Mazsport kit + all the bells and whistles?

This is a rough question as the M3 isnt even out for another year really.

BlueRenesis82

well, with 400whp, the power to weight ratio on the 8 is the same as a 911 turbo.

So there is your answer

playdoh43

itd go M3 or GT-R route just cause of the headaches of turboing a factory NA engine... vs having much more reliable factory car with warranty and good resale value.

HCTR154

As much as I love my RX 8, it is no match, even with aftermarket turbo, for those two cars. Especially the Skyline......I mean the GT-R!

If money is not a consideration, just sell your 8 and buy either of those cars. I'm sure either will make you very happy.

GT34

I think we're comparing apples to oranges with cars like the new gt-r and m3 both in price and performance. However with a mazsports turbo kit putting you at close to 360whp would be enough to hang with them through a track and won't leave you behind in a straight line.

A turbo rx8 is unique.

Red Devil

997 Turbo - 480bhp - ~3600bs = 7.5

RX-8 - 400bhp - ~3000lbs = 7.5

Do I think acceleration to 60mph or in the 1/4 is the same - no. Do I think that at speed a 350whp RX-8 could keep pace - possibly.

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

I think that if you are willing to go through the somewhat painful process of turboing an NA engine then go ahead.

But know that there most likely will be problems down the road that will need fixing and you might even end up with a finicky as hell car or it could turn out perfect and never have problems. I can ONLY imagine 350whp in a 3100lbs car....I can hardly control my giddiness when I drive my brothers 2006 Carrera S.

If you have the money and patience...DO IT!

I would definitely consider this option. Plus, I feel that going with either the GTR or the new M3 would be a downgrade in terms of chassis and platform. I just feel like those cars are heavy and will never be as agile as the RX8. I know i will get flamed for having said that but I believe in the less is more concept that Lotus lives by. Just make sure you upgrade the suspension components if you go through with the turbo.

Red Devil

I've run down E46 M3s and 997s at GingerMan with my NA RX-8. The next M3 and GT-R are just cars, they can be taken down by a well thought out upgraded RX-8. You just have to be willing to spend the money and invest the time...

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

I'm with you on that one.

toxin440

I agree on the agility part -- pretty much any car I move to wouldnt be as light and nimble. (kudos mazda). I already have upgraded to the full mazdaspeed suspension, upgraded clutch and flywheel and other boltons for fun. The one thing that sticks out in my mind as I'm starting to mature is the thought of a Luxury sports car (the M) is quite appealing. Even though I'm only 25, the thought of rolling around town in a luxury M3 V8 kick *** machine is so nice. And that even though the RX8 is sexy as hell as it ages I wouldnt like the "feel" of being in a younger persons car when I could be "ballin" in an M3.

Whats sad is that even though my mind has been racing about all this the past few days, none of it really matters because nothing would "happen" for a while at least until more info comes out about the M3 and GT-R AND research the hell outta Mazsport kits and how they stack up here in the coming months.

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

Understandable. ****, i would love to have an M3 if it didn't weigh so much, but I'm getting mixed messages here. Do you want more of a luxury/status symbol car with performance or do you want no compromise performance car?

It seemed to me you wanted the best performance for your dollar. If you want luxury and a great looking car and BMW engineering then yeah, go with the BMW but if you're looking for a performance only kind of car then I would stick with the RX8.

I think that if you want the best of both worlds you should go with a Porsche Carrera S.

Tough call but either way you'll have a nice car and I'm jealous haha.

BlueRenesis82

yep, seems like people would rather just dump 60k in a new car than make a 8k investment in the car they already have

Rhawb

Keep in mind that you'll probably have a hell of a time finding and dealership willing to budge from MSRP on both the new M3 and the GT-R. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of dealerships won't even listen unless you're talking about paying over list price - especially with the Nissan dealers. (I did hear correctly that they're now selling that as a Nissan again, right?)

That said, I don't think I'd turbo the 8 either. As far as I can tell, it's an absolute nightmare - the Mazsport kit seems promising, but I have to see it for myself before I'll believe it's as rock solid as it's supposed to be. Just drop a 3 rotor in there.

Tigster

Buy a new Z06, buy a 100K mile warranty. You will be happy.

cavemancan

I love this attitude about cars!

I am amazed how many people think these more expensive machines are so much better. I've raced a Z06 vette and I have never been fortunate enough to find a car that resembled its agility till I bought the Rx8. The Chasis is just plain amazing! Sure the Skyline and M3 will have tons more power but thats nothing a carefully thought out Rx8 can't handle.

I've seen people with there G-techs (Search the forum for this I am too lazy) measuring the G-forces of a properly moded Rx8 suspension hitting 1.2 G's at times. I know this is not a very scientific measurement but how many cars do you think can actually pull that off for around 3 grand? Hell some stock supercars can't do that.

Now add to all this agility 400 brake horse power and you have a car capable of keeping pace with some majorly high priced vehicles. Not to mention the fact that I've PURPOSELY started shaving weight on the Rx8. I would not be surprised if she's weighing just over 2900 lbs and I am nowhere near being done. I will be happy when she weighs 2600 lbs.

So...

2600 to 2700 lbs
400 bHP
1.1 to 1.2 G's

What does that sound like to you?

Dream in progress...

WoodsOfGreenRx8

- Have to agree with deamicls:

Do you wants a ***** out Luxary Sports car, or do you want a ***** out Sports Car.. Up to the final choice: Do you need leather seats, & 12 speakers with self assit parking & whatever else the BMW could come with?

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

That is my dream one day as well. Make my RX8 as light as possible and perfect the suspension setup followed by track days upon track days of fun.

Droooooool

Back to the topic:

I really feel that the only chassis that is comparable to the RX8s is the Cayaman S. That car is just amazing. It might not have the power of the new M3 or the GT-R but it will definitely get your around those turns faster and that's the only thing that matters.

cavemancan

Why else do you think my next car is a Truck?

This way I can toe her to all the races! I am going to do one thing though and thats make sure I do not cross the non street legal line or at least make sure no one can tell...hehehe. That way its race ready and street driven.

Carbon fiber body painted factory color, roll cage, no back seats, etc. The car will look only slightly moded (subtle body kit, MS wing)...Mostly look stock.

cavemancan

I absolutely LOVE Porshe!

Don't you think though that the GT3 is a better chasis (better than the Cayaman S that is)? I dont know much about them other than there numbers if you know what I mean.

DailyDriver2k5

Has anybody ever thought when you mod the Gt-r or M3 it will still take out a modded 8?

So yes, you can turbo an 8 to be the level of those two cars, but what happens when the owners or yourself mods the Gt-R and the M3? Goodbye turbo RX-8...

Stock to Stock or modded to modded the Rx-8 is going to be seeing tailights.

The GT-R and the M3 are on a totally diffrent performance level than the 8. I love my 8, but i too realize that the 8 has its limits wether stock or modded when put up against cars outside its class.

Tigster

^^ If people think it is $$$ to mod an rx8, just try to mod an M3.

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

I love the GT3 but no one could ever convince me that the 911 platform is better than the Cayman's. I love the GT3 and dream of that freakin machine but if I had to choose between a 420HP mid engine GT3 and a 420hp rear engine GT3 i would without a doubt pick the mid engine but they don't so the rear engine GT3 it is! hahaha. What a beautiful car.

There is no way a Rear engine read drive car can perform better than a mid engine rear drive car. Porsche is just stubborn and stuck in it's ways. It doesn't help that most Porsche enthusiasts would freak out if they ever changed the 911 platform. Oh well. Still love their cars.

Red Devil

With regards to power, I agree. With regards to grip and handling, I think you're dead wrong.

deamicls

iTrader: (1)

I think that we are deviating from the topic again. What i've gathered from the original poster is that he wants the best bang for the buck. Now, a 26k car with 15k worth of mods that perform as well as a new M3 is pretty unbelievable deal.

Mod a new M3 with a supercharger or turbo and that will cost you over 20k on top of a 70k car (or whatever the price will be) is pretty steep and you're still stuck with a heavy car that isn't as agile as the Rx8.

I like the way you think though. (dreams)

cavemancan

I can only partialy agree here. Sure the Rx8's engine potential is not comparable to those cars but then again it was never intended to be. However, if you put a comparable engine inside the Rx8 engine bay (like a Turbo 20b) and we are in a whole new ball park here. Recalibrate the suspension, redistribute the weight to revive the 50/50 split, and address drivetrain issues (putting power down)...Simply scary fast.

The Rx8 chasis is simply incredible. All it needs is a good engine combo.