New Yorker

Suffice to say that if the Renesis were, indeed, "unreliable," that "fact" would be alluded to —repeatedly — in the countless auto journalist reviews that appeared right through the end (and beyond) of RX-8 production.

And yet, strangely, in review after review, this "fact" is, somehow, not part of the conversation. It certainly is a fact on internet forums, though! Let's see… professional, paid automotive journalists who got their hard-to-get writing jobs by beating out other professional automotive writers vs. an internet forum; a bunch of guys (and children, and kids) who can come on here and say whatever the hell they want. Whether it's true or BS. What's that, you say? Where's the editor who, in legitimate magazines and newspapers, is responsible for what gets published and what isn't publish-worthy? Hey dummy, it's the internet! There is none!

Draw your own conclusion.

ASH8

Steady gw..

Von, How bad the 'Renesis was or is', geez I get so tired of those crapping on the renesis, it is nothing special, it a NORMAL 13B which uses identical water seals and most other soft seals from 30 years ago.

Where is does differ (acutely) is the exhaust (side porting) without this we would never have seen any new RX-.
Unfortunately the side seals can take a hammering at constant high RPM.

The old nemesis of the renesis is still carbon, as it has been for every Rotary Engine every made.
The biggest percentage of rebuilds was because of carbon and all it can destroy.
Coolant entry is relatively low, same soft seals from 30 years ago.

Why Mazda 'was' so excited about using hydrogen, and it is still the only prospect of a RE return (IMO).

ASH8

Did you take your angry pills?
Is this post even meant to be here in this thread?.....jeez.

Edit: Where I live 'journalistic standards' are now a joke.
Newspapers, magazine and online is all the same, it is called churnalism here.
Most of these 'experts' are under 30.
Also, IMO most of what is written in forums has way more legitimacy that what come from a churnalist who just copies and paste (plagiarizes).
The internet is faster to know and see where a 'car problem' starts, I still see companies like Mazda with head in sand saying that London is not burning, the evidence does not grace them well...in the end it is all about money, first, second and third.
Case in point, Skyactiv Diesels dying all over the world (not in North America as they don't sell them), I have not read anything from any 'motoring journalist' about this news ever, as it is not in their interest to report it, just like Porsche, BMW and every other brand.

von

I'll add, Journalists are given brand new cars to test and doubt they would take statistics from Mazda (not just internet as the New Yorker cherry picked) to make claims of design flaws causing premature failures. Journalists have been sued in the past for making such claims.

Simply using journalists as your authoritative source (who are probably paid by the car companies or fearing being sued by them) and claiming that their exclusion of engine reliability data is evidence of reliability (logical fallacy) is certainaly not an intelligent rebuttal by the New Yorker.

ASH8

"rebuttal' ", OK....in this thread I/we did not bring up journalists integrity, perception (or lack of), my post above was about what NY had written in 'another thread' on my comments on ND and motoring journalists in general..

Lets leave it at that..., not in this thread.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Since my RX-8 has been the most reliable car I've ever owned, including 2 Miatas 3 Corollas, a Protege5, and a Mazda5... I have my own opinion regarding reliability. But yes, it would be good to define it properly...

Actually, wrong. The definition of a Lemon in every state in the US is when there are repeated failures within a short duration of time and repeated trips to the dealer fail to ever correct the failure. Engine failures on a rotary are by definition not lemon law qualified, because replacing the engine DOES fix the problem, and on the first trip for the vast majority. The 2nd engine failing years later does not ever qualify for lemon law in any state.

How about an actual definition of "reliable" ?

Reliable | Definition of reliable by Merriam-Webster
So actually this has nothing to with statistics. It's personal experience. Can YOU rely on it or not. For me, the answer is easy: Yes. Therefore, it is reliable.

Well, your basis for what "reliable" is was unfounded

That's hearsay at best, simple rumor at worse.
That is certainly NOT empirical evidence. Try a real definition:
So you still don't have any direct observation or experimentation, just a lot of people talking, and even the talk hasn't been scientifically recorded.

It's because "having an engine fail" and "being reliable" are NOT mutually exclusive. My RX-8 is on it's 2nd engine, but it is still insanely reliable. The engine failure didn't strand me, didn't even inconvenience me. I drove it to the dealer without problems on a Friday, had it tested due to being near to the end of warranty, it failed, monday morning I picked it up with a new engine and $57 out of pocket for a set of belts. The failure has nothing at all to do with how reliable the car has been for me.

The engine is a part. Parts fail. They do. There isn't a single part in any car ever made that isn't subject to this basic rule. Period. Anyone that thinks that a part shouldn't be subject to it is really just being delusional. Awareness of how and why it could fail and preparation for when it does is why we still find the cars reliable. People that are driving around oblivious with zero awareness and zero preparation are naturally going to be unable to deal with parts failures, even if it's something as simple as a dead battery. Suddenly the car is going to be really unreliable because of their own ignorance.

I had more downtime and more out of pocket expense from my Protege5's rear caliper failing than I did with my 8's engine failing. By definition, my Protege5 was the less reliable of the two just comparing those two problems. The people that would say "the engine is more important than the brake caliper" have and odd perspective.

Virtually everyone here will have no problem pointing out the flaws. In fact, most of us spend all of our time pointing out all the possible problems to every new owner that shows up. Trying to say that we are ignoring the flaws is objectively and subjectively false. However, just like knowing how to refill your gas tank or replace your brake pads, we don't ignore one aspect of the car. We know all about the engine's failure chances, and we both prepare and educate on how to deal with it so that you still have a reliable car anyway.

Are you advocating that we should try to put blinders on every new member and NOT teach them how to be responsible owners? Not teach them how to deal with failures?

Again, reliability of ANYTHING is all in how aware you are and how prepared you are. "Reliability" that is only reached through blind ignorance on the part of the owner is ... well ... not really reliability at all.

I should note that my RX-8's engine failure happened at a higher odometer mileage than any of my piston engine failures. I guess Corolla's are really unreliable. That caught me off guard, thousands out of pocket, months without my car. My first Miata was even worse.

My RX-8 on the other hand cost me less in unexpected repairs than either of those, with only about 2 weeks of unexpected downtime in 5.5years 113,000 miles, visiting 37 states with it. I'd call that exceedingly reliable. So reliable that I missed it when I sold it... and 2 years later I bought it back from the guy I sold it to and keep racking up the miles. Even a 127,000 failure of my alternator stranded me 3.5 hours. That's it.

Outside of normal maintenance, the failures I had on my 8 over 129,000 miles (minus 8,600 of the original owner who I'm sure had nothing, and 4,600 miles with the interim owner):
- Cat failure at 55,000 miles, $0 and 2 hours of down time
- Clutch burst at 89,000, $350, 1 week down time replacing it myself
- Engine failure at 96,000 miles, $57 3 days over a weekend without it
- Alternator failure at 127,000 miles, $161, 3.5 hours of down time in a parking lot 8 hours from home.

....

That's it.

Pretty damn reliable to me.

My Corolla's engine failure alone cost me $2,000, 2 months of down time, not to mention the transmission failure from dealership negligence shortly after. My 99 Miata had a whole host of failures, including 2 engines, $6,000 in just parts over 2 years 5,000 miles with around 20 months of down time. My MSM has had only an alternator failure that wasn't caused by me, but thousands in repairs from issues relating to my modding and track time. Yeah that muddies the waters but still relevant to me and since I'm the only one affected either way, I make that call.



Reliability is all about how aware and prepared you are, or how blind and ill-equipped you are. Neither are the car's responsibility. BOTH are the responsibility of the owner. Trying to shift the responsibility off of the owner onto the car is doomed to failure. I know, I've been there too. It doesn't work.

ASH8

/\ Says it all really...

Unfortunately the majority of owners who criticise will never admit to their own failings in not doing what a manufacturer says they should,
let alone outright abuse of the product (car) and then owners outright lying to Dealers (because they, (we when I was there)) are all ***-holes,
that rip everyone off and lie (that is a car salesmen, not fix operations-generally).

Seen them so many times outright lying....
I want a new clutch under warranty (no YOU burnt it out, smell this, + flywheel face/pp is the colour of a rainbow).
I want new brakes, NO it is an expandable item, perhaps you brake too hard, they wear out.
Cars not running right, yeah you filled with diesel, this runs on petrol.
MY paint is chipping/peeling, usually happens when sharp stone/rocks hit a 40+ MPH.
I have rust on my car (see paint chips).
Then the classic, but my last (brand) car did not do this...
Etc., Etc.

Owners need to realise 8 times out of 10 it is THEIR attitude that gets them nowhere, and the inability to see that the guy on the other side 'maybe'
under 'pressure', answering 5 phone calls at the same time and copping it from every direction, day after day after day.

Is it any wonder some dealers get a bad reputation, usually from bad customers.

Remember, the Customer IS always right, I was taught that at 17, and they are...smile.
What you might think (in your head) as their 'servant' is another issues again.
It is how you (the servant) handles their issues.

A good car is a very complicated piece of engineering.....
You want to have a good look at new Skyactiv stuff, does everything but talk to you about what is or could be wrong.

Anyway, I am dribbling.....

Jessep102

iTrader: (1)

2004 still running strong 110k miles and original engine. :D

Rx8519

[QUOTE=Cezar;4292476]

sweetfa

Just passing 80k and the engine is still strong as when I adopted it 6 years ago.

Fresh oil every 5k, D585 coils and of course the "Brett speed" tune.

Clean predictable power with handling to die for, unreliable I think not!

Hunterkelley24

Mine has 147,000 and still going strong !

Digitz0070

Just hit 86k miles on my 05. Still runs awesome. I do premix the fuel and top off my oil every 750 miles or so. I'd like to get a sohn adapter kit soon. A better radiator, waterpump, and thermostat are next on the list.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

119,000 miles and runs like new - 2005 Sport 6MT.

Best vehicle I've ever owned - period. Only changed battery, brakes, coolant, oil/filter, spark plugs, rear diff gear oil, cabin and air filters.

No problems. Runs awesome through Michigan snow with iPikes or Blizzaks or Nokians.

Fluid Film or CRC HD rear wheel wells and frame in September, then spray Amsoil Heavy Duty Metal Protector over that; redo this in January. No rust after 10 years.

I can luckily afford a new car, but after testing BMWs, Lexi, Audi (A4 and A5 almost had me), Golf GTI, Mustang, Camaro, Acuras, etc., (some cars costing as much as 60k), there's zero reason to give up the 8, which still looks nearly new, drives tight, and has been rock solid.

These cars are gems.

Raptor75

I owned a 2005 for 9 years and feel very safe in saying that reliability of this engine is poor compared to other cars. As someone pointed out we don't know how bad but based on the number of threads and replaced engines it is relatively bad. I had 60K on mine when I sold it and was always worried about this. Some idiot here was just saying the engine is reliable even though he had it replaced once already. I have news for you, a reliable engine does not need replacing in under 100K miles, replacing one is the definition of unreliable. Reliable engines are not replaced 3 times in under 100k.

This is a great car to drive and a lot of fun but you need to know the engine has a much higher failure rate then other engines and you just might be replacing it. Once you come to terms with this the car is a joy to drive. I've moved to a WRX which is much faster, great torque, better reliability, way better MPG and AWD but it is no where near as nimble as the RX. The RX also had superior breaks and a great look, the WRX looks too econ box. All cars have trade offs, just need to pick what is important to you.

My car had the following failures:
- Rusted away oil cooler lines. ($1,700 repair)
- 2 sets of failed coils, finally moved to BHR setup.
- Melted CAT, because of the coil failure.
- Emission control switchs failing.
- Was starting to see some flickering in the LED display.
- A few other small idets I don't recall.

Beyond that the car ran well, the issue I did have were a direct result of Mazda cheaping out. Cheap metal in the cooler lines, Coils that were completely inadequate for the car and caused a number of issues when they failed.

So, go into this car with open eyes. Some do have a long and happy life with the engine but a far high then normal amount of owners experience engine failure.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

I started this thread after reading the linked article in it.

https://www.rx8club.com/rx-8-discuss...ebuilt-247916/

We recently had a guy in the rxclub FB page post up stating he hit 160,000 miles on the original engine. Well I called BS so one of our local guys works for Mazda and offered to run his VIN to prove it. After some pressure the guy gave him his VIN only to find out that the engine was replaced before it hit 100k.

I am sure there are a few people that make well above 100k but it's very rare and it's pretty likely that their engines are low compression anyway. Just because it still runs doesn't mean much. I have seen a lot of guys think they had a well running car until they showed up to a dyno day and put down 140WHP.

Rotor05

I would say the original engine may be good up to 120,00 miles. You see many on this page that didn't make that. You see all kinds for sale with 95K to 115K for sale. Dealers still want a good price for these cars but an individual can't get too much.
I had a 2005 Auto with 105,000 that trade in offer was $1250 to $1750. Check Edmunds or KBB. And mine was real clean. When you see one for sale and have no clue, like me when I bought it at 8 years old and 83,000 for $7000 I thought it was a good deal for such a pretty and fun car. But I was comparing to other economy sport sedans that should go 200,000 miles or more. Then mine started dying in the summer heat and wouldn't start until it cooled. I put in a 2006 hi RPM starter, Optima battery, new coils, and new plugs. It was working good in the winter when I sold it. I hope the new owner gets some life out of it. Rotary Performance quotes about $5000 to remove, rebuild, and install another engine. I got a 2014 Mustang V6, much faster, better gas mileage on regular gas. Doesn't handle quite as well but more room and Ford reliability.

Dokuji

I admit that im scared and curious to get a compression test done, but based off feel alone id say me and my renny are doing pretty good at 95k. Im more pissed at the syncros they used in our transmissions. After i do my ignition maintenance this spring, perhaps ill muster the courage and check the compression numbers. XD

Ive only had it since 88k, and sometimes i feel im driving a ticking time bomb, but she really hasnt done me wrong yet. It's a joy to drive and still looks better than most cars on the road, especially in Galaxy Gray :D

Dokuji

I would say that this is probably true, however most piston engined cars on the road are probably suffering compression and HP degradation as well, it just "seems" moreso an issue with our cars because we are all getting our numbers checked due to the stigma.

Really, when do guys with s2ks, 350s/g35s, FRS's, etc. Ever get compression tests done. Most cars suffer similar performance degradation over time due to the same sorts of issues, carbon buildúp, improper air/fuel/oil ratios or straight up neglect and abuse, or even weather conditions.


I know ill be eating my shorts if my motor craps out on me but i still feel the rotary gets way too much general negativity because its over-scrutinized.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

You hear about it with rx8s due to the fact that when our cars get weak compression they won't hot start and they won't idle/have stalling problems. That doesn't happen with piston engines nearly as often. We check our compression often because it is more often a debilitating issue for this car.

Dokuji

^^ I definitely agree, just saying that all motors suffer similar wear and tear and consequently lose power/performance.

to me, if the motor starts up every time, even under what would be considered "failing" compression test figures, the motor isn't really a lost cause or in immediate need of a rebuild, especially if it's just a grocery getter. (trying to justify not getting my compression checked cuz I'm scared XD)

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Piston engines also have non-lethal failure modes. Head gaskets for example. Or the infamous BRZ/FRS valvetrain problem. Repairable with engine in the car so not a rebuild per se. In a rotary with 3 moving parts, any failure = rebuild.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Each car has their own problems/issues

nickyraymond1

How long do these rotary engines last ? I just bought a used Rx8 and engine blew last week. Can't find a good used one.

My car has 89,000 miles.

Is the engine same for auto and manual transmission ?

I am looking for a low mileage JDM engine.

I don't like Junk yard engines. Can someone recommend a good source that sells JDM engines ?

I found a reasonably priced Mazda RX8 Japanese low mileage engine at Japanese Engines | Used Japanese Engines | Used Japanese Engine | JDM Engines

Has anyone bought from them ? They seem to be genuine

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

holy **** man, you are all over the place. read the stickies and new owners threads

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Yo man you know you can type more than one sentence in a post, right?

Also, your 8 engine died at 89k miles. Which is right in between 80-100k miles. Almost like clockwork. Hmmm.