daffyduc

So about 3 months ago I took my RX8 to a local rotary specialist for a checkup and oil change. (this guy has been working on rotaries for as long as I have been alive from the sounds of it(I am going on 30 BTW)) he asked if I wanted to throw a quart of lucas petroleum in it... I was a little puzzled, Everyone seems to think this stuff causes all kinds of issues in a rotary including but not limited to, air pockets, foaming, clogging, gunking, premature engine failure, explosion, telephone death threats from mazda service centers, etc... so I decided to ask him why he would ask that... he took me back to the shop and showed me around... aparently they are running 1-2 quarts of this stuff in any of their auto cross cars (rx7's and 8's) as well as most of their customers cars without incident, including a handful of old mazda pickups and other classic rotaries... He advised that he had a few cars with 200K on them still going on the original engine.... while not typical they do exist...

I was still hesitant, until I called around a little, I could only find a single rotary shop (I called 5 or 6 in the area and other major metro areas around us) that could give me an example of anyone having an issue after using lucas and most have heard of many people using it regularly (the exclusion being one idiot that started using it every 1000 miles instead of topping the oil off..... yeah that guy does not count)

so I told him to go ahead and add it... I figure I have 55K on the car if the engine blows up in the next 45K miles it is unlikely that mazda will decline the warranty based on using an oil additive assuming they had any idea it was used....

The suggestion was to use 1 quart of the stuff every other oil change since there is a residual oil supply sump... I am using straight mineral oil 5w-20 with 1 quart of lucas oil stabilizer every other change and so far I have not had ANY ill effects... the engine is creamy smooth and burns the same amount of oil as before... no milky oil, no foam, no metal to metal sounds or noticable issues so far...

just thought I would share.... seems like this is a hot issue, I know alot of people have brought it up and gotten pretty poor answers... mostly silly videos of guys playing with the stuff in odd coditions showing how bad it is.... but I have used this stuff in my jeep, bonneville, the wifes van, my old transam, work trucks, hell dad uses it in his deisel trucks including dump trucks and back hoes, it has always been a great product and apparantly rotaries are no exception.... even if it does not extend the life of the engine, I think its at least not going to hurt it based on what I have seen and been told...

That being said I have been asked not to specify the shop name as he does not want any preconceptions to effect business....

also on the synthetic vs mineral debate his opinion is if changed out to full synthetic early in life it is beneficial but synthetic will not help a worn out or later in life engine... no sense wasting the money... mineral oil is just as good unless you are sub 5000 miles and planning to ONLY use Synthetic from now on....

I seem to think the guy knows his stuff, but who knows he could be a quack.... seems like it would be hard to have a rotary specific shop stay in business (and expanding) for the last 15 years and not know what you are talking about though....

any thoughts?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Well, I don't know what residual oil sump you are speaking of but if you are using a good quality oil with a good additive package and change your oil regularly then this product is totally unnecessary.

I looked up the MSDS sheet for it and all it is, is an oil/solvent so why would it do anything better than a quart of good oil? Do you know what a solvent does to oil film? But it's your car, if you feel its needed then knock yourself out.

laythor

i personally wouldn't run a solvent through every other oil change, seems a bit of an over kill for what i'm assuming he's trying to prevent.

daffyduc

apparently when you change the oil you cannot drain all of it... at least that is my understanding....

laythor

so when you drain the solvent you also cannot drain all of it

oltmann

On bitog they say it just has a bunch of viscosity index improvers, but no additives. So you're simply thickening the oil, while reducing the amount of friction modifiers.

Just use good oil. If you like what it is doing, use thicker oil, and it should have the same effect while not diluting the additives.

daffyduc

More like unless you want to pump it dry you are always going to have some old oil in there as well as any thing else... because you are constantly replacing quart after quart as you drive it its not really an issue.... but I read that to switch to 100 percent synthetic is Damn near impossible due to this.... no idea how true that is.... either way I am not concerned.... been happy so far... no reason to worry.... just wanted to share.. again I don't think its a magical additive that some seem to think it is, but enough people have asked the question... thought it would be worth sharing....

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

You should really consider running a thicker oil. 5w20 is too thin for a rotary.

daffyduc

Well apparently I am... according to the above that might be all this stuff does....

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

With the wide range of oils out there, there should never be any reason to add an oil additive. Just use a different oil that starts out where you want to be.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

True, you do not get all of your oil out during a change but if you are changing your oil often then that is a non issue. You can also do things like use an oil extractor to get most of the old oil out instead of a typical oil change method.

But for me, I use Mobil1 and change it every 3,000 miles. I have tested my oil and my 3,000 mile intervals are unnecessary as my oil is still great after 3,000 miles but I do it anyway to assure that all of the oil on my car is in good condition.

Like I said, the stuff you are adding is just oil itself with solvent in it. Solvent cleans. Solvent with inhibit or possibly damage your oils ability to protect. I doubt this will do too much damage because it is still mostly oil and combined with the rest of the oil it will be pretty diluted, but still a little risky in my opinion. Oil gunk is not an issue of you change your oil regularly because oil has cleaning agents so a solvent/cleaner is really not needed.

You should have an oil sample tested by blackstone and post it up. I am curious what this stuff really is and does. No one really knows without any data.

REDRX3RX8

To the OP,

In the 60's, the best oils were 10w40, and rated SD.

Many cars including small block Chevy's were known to go 250k miles on what would now be substandard oil.

Here we are 45 years later still trying to reinvent the wheel.

Just buy any xw40 weight oil you think is magic, and don't screw with the formula.

The refiners have already tested oils to death, and you'd have to work hard to find a bad designed oil in this weight range.

Novoken

iTrader: (7)

I use 5w20 winter and 5w30 summer. Castrol GTX dino oil. Change it every 5 weeks (I have a long commute) I would only premix.

longpath

iTrader: (1)

When I read the topic, I thought the OP meant as a premix. I had to re-read his/her post again before I realized that mixed in with the crankcase oil was the meaning. I'd suggest keeping it simple. Use a 5/30 like Mazda specs for the rest of the world, and use a premix if you have an S1 because there's no center oil injector for each rotor.

daffyduc

Anyone care to elaborate on having the oil tested? I will gladly be the guinea pig...

daffyduc

Sweet, Found it.... just ordered the free kit... I am going to do the $35 standard test + TBN...

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard-analysis.php

When it comes to oil change time I will definitely do this... does anyone have a base line test they can post so we can compare the difference?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Good idea.

Here is my thread on the topic, you will see some results that should compare somewhat but that depends on OCI, climate, use, etc.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...&highlight=uoa

Beodude

iTrader: (3)

With the front main bearing failure I've seen in many of the rebuilt Rensis engines... I'm going to stay with Xw40. Probably 5w40 once summer rolls around. Either way, I know my stuff will be nice and cushioned when I roll up to 9.5k.

With that, premix and adapter, I think it'll go a long way in keeping my engine happy.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yep. I am doing everything I can to make this engine last