hesitates on acceleration
11-17-2011, 03:31 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hesitates on acceleration
What do you do, when you bring in your RX8 into the dealership for maintenance, and the tech guy doesn't believe what's the problem that I've described to them?
Apparently, this Service Advisor had asked me (a few minutes ago) if I have always use Premium Octane... I said YES!!!, but from the sound of it, he doesn't believe me...
My problem is: I'm having a 'hesitates on acceleration' which I believe is due to an un-clean/ clog SSV... I am kinda sure of this, becuz the sound of the intake were different before I am having this problem... it has happened 3-4times... I can clearly hear knocking sound of some kind coming from the engine bay even on idle, as I revved it up between 3.5KRPM+++
What I can't believe is can octane really play that huge of a role to make that kind of lag in acceleration?
And they refuse to change my clutch Pedal Bracket though I have the SSP82 letter to prove them that I can change it, but they argued, if it had nothing wrong, it's fine, and hence can't be changed. REALLY? -- I am experiencing squeking clutch sound (on release)... and NO it's not becuz it's WET, ok ?
MY car info: 3rd Owner, 04 RX-8, Stock. Milage 56K++ I am the car owner since 28,000
Apparently, this Service Advisor had asked me (a few minutes ago) if I have always use Premium Octane... I said YES!!!, but from the sound of it, he doesn't believe me...
My problem is: I'm having a 'hesitates on acceleration' which I believe is due to an un-clean/ clog SSV... I am kinda sure of this, becuz the sound of the intake were different before I am having this problem... it has happened 3-4times... I can clearly hear knocking sound of some kind coming from the engine bay even on idle, as I revved it up between 3.5KRPM+++
What I can't believe is can octane really play that huge of a role to make that kind of lag in acceleration?
And they refuse to change my clutch Pedal Bracket though I have the SSP82 letter to prove them that I can change it, but they argued, if it had nothing wrong, it's fine, and hence can't be changed. REALLY? -- I am experiencing squeking clutch sound (on release)... and NO it's not becuz it's WET, ok ?
MY car info: 3rd Owner, 04 RX-8, Stock. Milage 56K++ I am the car owner since 28,000
Last edited by vX-2; 11-17-2011 at 03:35 PM.
11-17-2011, 03:35 PM
#2
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
There is an entire thread on octane and what it does, but basically the combustion term "knocking" is detonation / pre-ignition, and using a higher octane helps prevent this. If you are getting this pre-ignition under idle conditions they you wouldn't be able to floor it to even moderate RPMs before you destroy your engine.
So it's pretty safe to say that the knocking being heard is mechanical, not combustion.
Without more to go on though, I hesitate making any other suggestions on what it could be. If you are correct in your guess however, it's something that you can clean yourself and save the hassle of trying to get a dealer to understand you.
So it's pretty safe to say that the knocking being heard is mechanical, not combustion.
Without more to go on though, I hesitate making any other suggestions on what it could be. If you are correct in your guess however, it's something that you can clean yourself and save the hassle of trying to get a dealer to understand you.
11-17-2011, 03:38 PM
#3
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is an entire thread on octane and what it does, but basically the combustion term "knocking" is detonation / pre-ignition, and using a higher octane helps prevent this. If you are getting this pre-ignition under idle conditions they you wouldn't be able to floor it to even moderate RPMs before you destroy your engine.
So it's pretty safe to say that the knocking being heard is mechanical, not combustion.
Without more to go on though, I hesitate making any other suggestions on what it could be. If you are correct in your guess however, it's something that you can clean yourself and save the hassle of trying to get a dealer to understand you.
So it's pretty safe to say that the knocking being heard is mechanical, not combustion.
Without more to go on though, I hesitate making any other suggestions on what it could be. If you are correct in your guess however, it's something that you can clean yourself and save the hassle of trying to get a dealer to understand you.
11-17-2011, 03:49 PM
#6
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
Very few shops will "do what you tell them without question" unless it's something really common. That being said, I'd also be wary of a shop that doesn't know about the 8 getting down to the valves to clean them. It's not difficult at all, but it just introduces an element that makes me really wary.
Getting a compression test, if you don't know the numbers, is always valuable. But if you don't have any reason to suspect compression, then it could just be a waste of money. And that HAS to be done at a dealer anyway. The rotary compression tester isn't something many other places have. Compression doesn't sound likes it's your problem though. It sounds like either a collapsed motor mount (or two), something loose, the SSV stuck or too loose, etc... "knocking" means different things to different people though, so with just a single word description of a sound to go by, I hesitate making any suggestions.
Getting a compression test, if you don't know the numbers, is always valuable. But if you don't have any reason to suspect compression, then it could just be a waste of money. And that HAS to be done at a dealer anyway. The rotary compression tester isn't something many other places have. Compression doesn't sound likes it's your problem though. It sounds like either a collapsed motor mount (or two), something loose, the SSV stuck or too loose, etc... "knocking" means different things to different people though, so with just a single word description of a sound to go by, I hesitate making any suggestions.
11-17-2011, 03:50 PM
#7
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
) which I didn't use premium gas and are stuck on using that argument against me...I changed my plugs/ coils when I reached 50K... Never had the cat converter check b4...
11-17-2011, 03:53 PM
#8
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Very few shops will "do what you tell them without question" unless it's something really common. That being said, I'd also be wary of a shop that doesn't know about the 8 getting down to the valves to clean them. It's not difficult at all, but it just introduces an element that makes me really wary.
Getting a compression test, if you don't know the numbers, is always valuable. But if you don't have any reason to suspect compression, then it could just be a waste of money. And that HAS to be done at a dealer anyway. The rotary compression tester isn't something many other places have. Compression doesn't sound likes it's your problem though. It sounds like either a collapsed motor mount (or two), something loose, the SSV stuck or too loose, etc... "knocking" means different things to different people though, so with just a single word description of a sound to go by, I hesitate making any suggestions.
Getting a compression test, if you don't know the numbers, is always valuable. But if you don't have any reason to suspect compression, then it could just be a waste of money. And that HAS to be done at a dealer anyway. The rotary compression tester isn't something many other places have. Compression doesn't sound likes it's your problem though. It sounds like either a collapsed motor mount (or two), something loose, the SSV stuck or too loose, etc... "knocking" means different things to different people though, so with just a single word description of a sound to go by, I hesitate making any suggestions.
11-17-2011, 03:58 PM
#10
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
Well, it's going to be a tough fight then if they have a receipt against you.
89 or higher is pretty much a manufacturer stated requirement. I say "pretty much" because they don't actually state an octane level, but it is written on the label inside the fuel door and in the owner's manual, and that's legal coverage. They could (in theory) use non-premium gas use as a reason to deny you on a whole host of problems.
Their compression test price is the highest I've ever seen. $85 to $120 is typical. Your warranty is all gone anyway (I'm assuming as it's likely more than 8 years since first sold date), so why feed them the money? Take the car back and either go to a different dealer for a compression test and/or deal with the issue yourself.
89 or higher is pretty much a manufacturer stated requirement. I say "pretty much" because they don't actually state an octane level, but it is written on the label inside the fuel door and in the owner's manual, and that's legal coverage. They could (in theory) use non-premium gas use as a reason to deny you on a whole host of problems.
Their compression test price is the highest I've ever seen. $85 to $120 is typical. Your warranty is all gone anyway (I'm assuming as it's likely more than 8 years since first sold date), so why feed them the money? Take the car back and either go to a different dealer for a compression test and/or deal with the issue yourself.
11-17-2011, 03:59 PM
#11
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I mean seriously, what else in my capability that I can do, to convince this dealership Ford/Mazda in my Area to go clean that valve for me? It's been really shitty with this dealership... seriously... I really hate them... everytime I wanted something for them to check on, they come up with lame excuses like Octane... WTF? I even copy the Service Bulletin No. for them to refer to... and hell, they still don't believe me, and rather pin it to the fact of breaching my privacy that I didn't use premium fuel?
11-17-2011, 04:02 PM
#12
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, it's going to be a tough fight then if they have a receipt against you.
89 or higher is pretty much a manufacturer stated requirement. I say "pretty much" because they don't actually state an octane level, but it is written on the label inside the fuel door and in the owner's manual, and that's legal coverage. They could (in theory) use non-premium gas use as a reason to deny you on a whole host of problems.
Their compression test price is the highest I've ever seen. $85 to $120 is typical. Your warranty is all gone anyway (I'm assuming as it's likely more than 8 years since first sold date), so why feed them the money? Take the car back and either go to a different dealer for a compression test and/or deal with the issue yourself.
89 or higher is pretty much a manufacturer stated requirement. I say "pretty much" because they don't actually state an octane level, but it is written on the label inside the fuel door and in the owner's manual, and that's legal coverage. They could (in theory) use non-premium gas use as a reason to deny you on a whole host of problems.
Their compression test price is the highest I've ever seen. $85 to $120 is typical. Your warranty is all gone anyway (I'm assuming as it's likely more than 8 years since first sold date), so why feed them the money? Take the car back and either go to a different dealer for a compression test and/or deal with the issue yourself.
Yes, 91 or 89 is what I usually runs.... they are about 3.519/ 3.319 here.... but they are added with 10% ethanol.... Isnt ethanol harmful for the rotary?? while the 87 has 0% ethnol... (which I sometimes fill it up for)
Last edited by vX-2; 11-17-2011 at 04:05 PM.
11-17-2011, 04:05 PM
#13
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
Um, no idea. Probably not. Even if it is, you probably wouldn't win the fight.
You can "convince" any dealer anywhere to do exactly what you want. It requires a bribe of money, usually lots of it, and they will hand to an itemized list of what they are doing in exchange for that bribe.
At this point, I'm going to keep saying it, so just saying it one last time...
Take your car back, do the work yourself.
Why bother continuing to deal with it when there is no logical reason to? Even finding a small mechanic that is willing to listen to what you are saying would be far superior to that dealer. Why continue?
I mean seriously, what else in my capability that I can do, to convince this dealership Ford/Mazda in my Area to go clean that valve for me? It's been really shitty with this dealership... seriously... I really hate them... everytime I wanted something for them to check on, they come up with lame excuses like Octane... WTF? I even copy the Service Bulletin No. for them to refer to... and hell, they still don't believe me, and rather pin it to the fact of breaching my privacy that I didn't use premium fuel?
At this point, I'm going to keep saying it, so just saying it one last time...
Take your car back, do the work yourself.
Why bother continuing to deal with it when there is no logical reason to? Even finding a small mechanic that is willing to listen to what you are saying would be far superior to that dealer. Why continue?
11-17-2011, 04:09 PM
#14
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Um, no idea. Probably not. Even if it is, you probably wouldn't win the fight.
You can "convince" any dealer anywhere to do exactly what you want. It requires a bribe of money, usually lots of it, and they will hand to an itemized list of what they are doing in exchange for that bribe.
At this point, I'm going to keep saying it, so just saying it one last time...
Take your car back, do the work yourself.
Why bother continuing to deal with it when there is no logical reason to? Even finding a small mechanic that is willing to listen to what you are saying would be far superior to that dealer. Why continue?
You can "convince" any dealer anywhere to do exactly what you want. It requires a bribe of money, usually lots of it, and they will hand to an itemized list of what they are doing in exchange for that bribe.
At this point, I'm going to keep saying it, so just saying it one last time...
Take your car back, do the work yourself.
Why bother continuing to deal with it when there is no logical reason to? Even finding a small mechanic that is willing to listen to what you are saying would be far superior to that dealer. Why continue?
which is really 
Since you mentioned that Engine Compression Test requires the dealership to handle it, I'm wondering if checking for clog in the Cat Converter can be done outside more easily?
I see that getting a reading on my engine condition is 'sort' of justifieable becuz my engine has been 8yrs+ since 2004... it wouldn't be too bad to know the condition if it's 8:1 or still 10:1... what's the healthy rate of the rotors?
11-17-2011, 04:11 PM
#15
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
They tell me including labor and **** sums up to $275... I do have extended warranty till 2012, which I've used b4 to replace the oil pan FOC... I'm not a car expert/ mechanic, so, trying to deal with it myself is really out of the window... =(
Yes, 91 or 89 is what I usually runs.... they are about 3.519/ 3.319 here.... but they are added with 10% ethanol.... Isnt ethanol harmful for the rotary?? while the 87 has 0% ethnol... (which I sometimes fill it up for)
Yes, 91 or 89 is what I usually runs.... they are about 3.519/ 3.319 here.... but they are added with 10% ethanol.... Isnt ethanol harmful for the rotary?? while the 87 has 0% ethnol... (which I sometimes fill it up for)
The RX-8 is REALLY easy to work on. You couldn't have picked a better car to start learning and saving money for every future car.
And almost all grades of all stations have up to 10% ethanol. The only known (to me) grade/brand that does not is Shell V-Power, which is 91 or 93, depending on where you are. 10% ethanol is not harmful to any modern engine.
If you are actually using 87 then either your compression is fairly terrible or "no wonder your 8 is running like garbage". A healthy Renesis can not handle 87 safely. The only way it will run fine in an RX-8 is if your compression is substandard and it isn't compressing the air/fuel mixture enough to generate the heat to cause detonation. Detonation on a rotary is DEADLY. The older RX-7s had lower compression rotors, and could run 87 safely.
I'm thinking the dealer might have plenty of justification now....
11-17-2011, 04:14 PM
#16
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 239 Likes
on
109 Posts
Becuz nobody in my Area seem to know how to service a rotary engine in my area.... which is really
Since you mentioned that Engine Compression Test requires the dealership to handle it, I'm wondering if checking for clog in the Cat Converter can be done outside more easily?
I see that getting a reading on my engine condition is 'sort' of justifieable becuz my engine has been 8yrs+ since 2004... it wouldn't be too bad to know the condition if it's 8:1 or still 10:1... what's the healthy rate of the rotors?
which is really Since you mentioned that Engine Compression Test requires the dealership to handle it, I'm wondering if checking for clog in the Cat Converter can be done outside more easily?
I see that getting a reading on my engine condition is 'sort' of justifieable becuz my engine has been 8yrs+ since 2004... it wouldn't be too bad to know the condition if it's 8:1 or still 10:1... what's the healthy rate of the rotors?
B) Any mechanic (including a self-trained mechanic) can check the cat.
C) I have a writeup on compression in my new owners thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/new-potential-owners-start-here-202454/ I'm not going to retype it all.
11-17-2011, 04:15 PM
#17
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cross-posting
The RX-8 is REALLY easy to work on. You couldn't have picked a better car to start learning and saving money for every future car.
And almost all grades of all stations have up to 10% ethanol. The only known (to me) grade/brand that does not is Shell V-Power, which is 91 or 93, depending on where you are. 10% ethanol is not harmful to any modern engine.
If you are actually using 87 then either your compression is fairly terrible or "no wonder your 8 is running like garbage". A healthy Renesis can not handle 87 safely. The only way it will run fine in an RX-8 is if your compression is substandard and it isn't compressing the air/fuel mixture enough to generate the heat to cause detonation. Detonation on a rotary is DEADLY. The older RX-7s had lower compression rotors, and could run 87 safely.
I'm thinking the dealer might have plenty of justification now....
The RX-8 is REALLY easy to work on. You couldn't have picked a better car to start learning and saving money for every future car.
And almost all grades of all stations have up to 10% ethanol. The only known (to me) grade/brand that does not is Shell V-Power, which is 91 or 93, depending on where you are. 10% ethanol is not harmful to any modern engine.
If you are actually using 87 then either your compression is fairly terrible or "no wonder your 8 is running like garbage". A healthy Renesis can not handle 87 safely. The only way it will run fine in an RX-8 is if your compression is substandard and it isn't compressing the air/fuel mixture enough to generate the heat to cause detonation. Detonation on a rotary is DEADLY. The older RX-7s had lower compression rotors, and could run 87 safely.
I'm thinking the dealer might have plenty of justification now....
11-17-2011, 04:23 PM
#18
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A) the only thing truely "unique" about the RX-8 is the engine itself. Everything else around it is common to every other car. So unless you are looking for an engine rebuild, then it's simply a matter of learning how those other bits affect the rotary a bit differently, and/or the rotary's more specific issues that affect the other bits. Like cooling, ignition, etc...
B) Any mechanic (including a self-trained mechanic) can check the cat.
C) I have a writeup on compression in my new owners thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454 I'm not going to retype it all.
B) Any mechanic (including a self-trained mechanic) can check the cat.
C) I have a writeup on compression in my new owners thread here: https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=202454 I'm not going to retype it all.
Can you be kind enough to re-check this thread again in the evening and give me a confidence vote regarding the Engine Compression Test report that I'm about to get when I go get my car?
)
11-17-2011, 04:43 PM
#21
European livin n ohio
I feel bad for you but having said that, why put anything lower than 91 in your car? I don't get that. I fuel 93 always. Had to use 92 once, put 3 gallons in, drove to next station and filled with 93 is how ocd I am about it. The fact they found the receipt doesn't matter, you put it in. It's like robbing a bank and blaming the cops for getting caught. You tried to save a Buck and the 2,50 you saved on a tank is going to cost you a 100 fold minimum, 1500 fold if you fail the compression test. Hope it was worth it.
11-17-2011, 04:45 PM
#22
Registered
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I feel bad for you but having said that, why put anything lower than 91 in your car? I don't get that. I fuel 93 always. Had to use 92 once, put 3 gallons in, drove to next station and filled with 93 is how ocd I am about it. The fact they found the receipt doesn't matter, you put it in. It's like robbing a bank and blaming the cops for getting caught. You tried to save a Buck and the 2,50 you saved on a tank is going to cost you a 100 fold minimum, 1500 fold if you fail the compression test. Hope it was worth it.
.... wait... u mean if my engine compression ratio test failed? The warranty doesn't cover it? But I did use premium most often, and only sometimes on the 89, and a few rare ocassion the 87 (which I learnt was not the way to re-fill though it has 0% ethanol, while the 91/89 has 10% ethanol is still fine for the rotary-- and the 87 costs > 89).... oh, great.... I just shoot myself on the foot.
Last edited by vX-2; 11-17-2011 at 04:55 PM.
11-17-2011, 05:01 PM
#24
European livin n ohio
91 is acceptable because in some states it's all there is. Anything lower is not. Warranty could say driver abuse and deny your claim for everything engine related.
11-17-2011, 05:14 PM
#25
European livin n ohio
From what I've read around the site it has to do with the engine retarding itself causing a knocking sound. A bad SSV would sound like marbles in a can. I'm not mechanically inclined myself I've just studied the stickies and picked up from 3 very knowledgeable guys in my area.
Put it this way. Our cars only like steak and you've been forcing McDonald's down her throat.
Put it this way. Our cars only like steak and you've been forcing McDonald's down her throat.