zoomed

Well, the new issue of Car and Driver now states that Mazda is working on an electric Turbo version. Sounds good to me! Hope it can be retrofitted. Supposed to be unveiled at the 2005 Tokyo Motor show (when it that? 2005 you say...)

Arnaud

Eaton (among others) has been working on such a system for a while, but it has yet to come out in a car. Mazda being 1st to market on a rotary would be niiice!

TitanMSP

There is also talk of a hydraulic turbo in the works by the MPS team .

Arnaud

Hydraulic needs a pump. Electricity is there always.

Arnaud

I just read on an old french article that Mazda used an electric turbo for added low-end torque on the Hydrogen-RE. The renesys on hydrogen gives only 110hp, so any help is surely welcome...

But if they can re-use the experience and introduce only the turbo in serial production earlier than the whole hydrogen thing, we wouldn't mind. Torque is good, at either end, and in the middle too!

Arnaud

Ajax

Yes, the electric assist is to get the turbo spinning and eliminate lag. I wonder if they completely eliminate the exhaust turbine in this case and replace it with the electric assist.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. The only issue I could see with running an electric motor to spin the turbo is that the brushes and the springs in the motor will eventually wear out and have to be replaced, but it also allows for a whole new set of strange aftermarket parts like different brushes and different pressure springs.

Reeko

I wonder if the electric assist drive will have some type of clutch disconnect so the motor is not a load when the turbo spins up?

If so, I would assume that the electric assist is controlable and would only need to be enabled for full throttle positions. In this case, I would think that the electric motor would not wear too quickly.

Lawerence

Im pretty sure you guys are on it ajax. But im pretty sure they are not going to completely get rid of the exhaust rubine...hence the electric assist

Ajax

Well, if they go completely electric, the motor would wear out more quickly. A combination would be my best guess as well since it is an electric "assist". The motor is probably programmed to shut off after certain speeds are reached by the turbine itself.

Personally, if I were to design a turbocharger, that's how I would do it. All you need is a small optical sensor inside that reads the rate at which the turbine blades are passing it, a little logic, and you can automatically adjust the speed of a small electric motor that is directly coupled to the shaft. Once the turbine reaches an effective speed, maintaining it requires almost no power whatsoever and when the car accelerates, you'll see that speed increase beyond the motor's requirements.

liqiud

So Ajax...i have a new project for you...make one, and i will market it, we can sell it, and both quit our jobs...but seriously, if you can make one, i will try it out.

Ajax

I have enough experience with electric motors and electronics to do this, yes, but not enough experience with turbos. Then again, the fundamentals behind the workings of a turbo are so simple it's not that big of a deal. I could just buy a T04 and build an electric assist for it, throw it into my car with an intercooler and have a grand ole high speed time.

BTW, I got my V1 today

liqiud

Sweet...i order mine tomorrow...when do you want to start working on that turbo...?

Atacdad

If they got rid of the exaust turbine, we'd have an electric supercharger...not a turbo (by definition).

Ajax

Well technically, yes, but technically no.
Superchargers apply continuous boost across the entire range of RPM. Turbochargers apply boost at specific RPM levels.

Now, how about a turbo that had a computer controlled boost level that could read feedback from both the engine computers and its own computer? That'd be neat as long as the logic was PERFECT. You wouldnt want it applying insane amounts of boost because of some little glitch in your code.

liqiud

hmm...lets work on the turbo without the engine computer to start...

Ajax

Ha!
Variable boost levels would be relatively difficult to establish anyway. The rx-8 doesnt need much boost anyway. 6-8psi should give you a very noticeable level of performance increase because of the 10.5 compression ratio, but all the guys working on turbos know that already. Boost controllers do the work for you and are already on the market as is.

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

it's 10:1 compression...no 10.5 but whatever....If there's going to be a turbo RX8, I'd rather have the traditional exhaust driven one.....I hate half the electronics that are on the car now...don't need to overcomplicate stuff.....

liqiud

hmm...a non-geek rx-8 owner....or maybe just a geek that hates electronics...wait...I don't think that is possible.

The bonus to electric Assist turbos, is shorter spool up times...i for one, would appreciate that.

NAVILESRX8

iTrader: (1)

a-non geek RX8 owner...I love the rotary and appreciate the advanced technology, but I long for the days where I could rejet the holley and advance the timing by myself with normal hand tools in my ported 13B 1st gen RX7(and I'm only 24, not one of the real old dudes). I'm strange.

Lawerence

Well I must say shorter spoolup times sound nice, but really how quickly do you need the turbo to spool.

Right now I dont reach full boost untill 4.5-5K rpms. If I bought an electric boost controller, I could reach full boost by 3.2K.

But with an electic assist that lets you boost at say 1700rpms, that is too much IMO. I mean just think of the gas mileage. (gas mileage is the only thing holding me back from an EBC).

And I dont want the turbo to spool unless im really getting on it (shorter turbo life if it spols that quick).

zoom44

dealer guy just said to me "hey did you hear what they are bringing out next year?" "twin turbos-electric"

VTRotary

does this dealer guy know something that we dont or is he just a herb?



by the way....this a very interesting thread (meaning, Im a huge geek) haha keep it "spooling"


ok that was bad

Jedi54

iTrader: (7)

Amazing what comes out of these sales guys' mouths...

Here is my question though...

If the turbos do some out next year (electric assisted just for argument's sake) would that cause any buyer's remorse in any of you?

I know that this will depend on the vehicle's specs but what would your initial reaction be?

Just the thought of bringing back a turbo in the RX gives me chills...

My plans are to place an order for an RX near the end of the year but this news might make me rethink my current timeline....

Anyone else thinking of waiting now?

(this should have been its own thread, oh well)

greene76

99.9% of dealers are tools!