determining if my engines ever been replaced
08-28-2013, 11:11 AM
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determining if my engines ever been replaced
This question arose from another discussion thread about a reman engine factory and its level of production.
My 8 is a 2004 with approx 124k miles on it. The guy i bought it from had no idea if the engine was ever swapped out or rebuilt. The only thing he told me was that it had an engine "refresh" at around 80K whatever the **** that means. Dealer history obtained directly from mazda NA showed no warranty replacements or any other engine work outside of normal expected recalls. I spent a few minutes the other day poking around from above trying to find the remanufactured engine plate to no avail.
I consider myself a hobby mechanic and have a long history of cars where i almost always DIY myself so i'm confident i have a good idea of what i'm seeing and feeling when it comes to my cars. My 8 feels strong and doesn't seem to have any of the normal issues that come along with a low compression engine like hot starts. Granted i have never done a compression test, but consensus seemed to be that a car with the mileage mine has that still has the original engine should not be performing like i feel mine is.
this is where i get confused because rx8s have this bad history of engines dying under 50k miles yet as best as i can tell mine has never been replaced or rebuilt and is still going strong. I know i need to have a compression test done, but that still doesn't tell me if i have a reman or a rebuilt or an original. If i do have bad compression then i'm extremely curious to know what this cars like with good compression!
So after that long winded story i guess im asking is how do i figure out what the real deal is. A bad compression test would hint at an original engine, but could also mean a rebuild is once again starting to go bad. Good compression numbers would really throw things into a mystery though.
My 8 is a 2004 with approx 124k miles on it. The guy i bought it from had no idea if the engine was ever swapped out or rebuilt. The only thing he told me was that it had an engine "refresh" at around 80K whatever the **** that means. Dealer history obtained directly from mazda NA showed no warranty replacements or any other engine work outside of normal expected recalls. I spent a few minutes the other day poking around from above trying to find the remanufactured engine plate to no avail.
I consider myself a hobby mechanic and have a long history of cars where i almost always DIY myself so i'm confident i have a good idea of what i'm seeing and feeling when it comes to my cars. My 8 feels strong and doesn't seem to have any of the normal issues that come along with a low compression engine like hot starts. Granted i have never done a compression test, but consensus seemed to be that a car with the mileage mine has that still has the original engine should not be performing like i feel mine is.
this is where i get confused because rx8s have this bad history of engines dying under 50k miles yet as best as i can tell mine has never been replaced or rebuilt and is still going strong. I know i need to have a compression test done, but that still doesn't tell me if i have a reman or a rebuilt or an original. If i do have bad compression then i'm extremely curious to know what this cars like with good compression!
So after that long winded story i guess im asking is how do i figure out what the real deal is. A bad compression test would hint at an original engine, but could also mean a rebuild is once again starting to go bad. Good compression numbers would really throw things into a mystery though.
08-28-2013, 11:17 AM
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There are several engines that made it past 200,000 on the original engine. Don't get so hung up on a specific mileage for failure or whatever. Many of the failure methods for the engine are actually failures of other components, like the thermostat, radiator, cat, etc... which pretty much kills any ability to determine the engine's actual wear rate.
I think there is an ID number somewhere on the engine that is supposed to be linked to your car at the factory, so finding this should enable some sort of record retrieval from MNAO. In theory. They may not even have access to that info.
If you don't have any of the reman tags, you are probably on your original engine, even if your compression is fine.
I think there is an ID number somewhere on the engine that is supposed to be linked to your car at the factory, so finding this should enable some sort of record retrieval from MNAO. In theory. They may not even have access to that info.
If you don't have any of the reman tags, you are probably on your original engine, even if your compression is fine.
08-28-2013, 11:37 AM
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So this is where you meant to post this...
If you aren't experiencing any symptoms, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean you could get a compression test for piece of mind I suppose.
As far as longevity of the engine, I personally it has a great deal to do with preventive maintenance and how attentive the owner is to the engine in general. If you are under your hood every other day you are far more likely to pick up on a seemingly subtle change that could actually be, or lead to a serious problem.
That is not to say that there are not failures that are completely beyond the control of any user, but I do believe many could have been prevented.
I remember when the car first came out one of my coworkers had one and went through 2 engines and a very relatively short amount of time. She cursed and bad mouthed what a piece of junk the car was all the time, but knowing her I know she was the type of person that had no place owning a car like this. If she had done any kind of research into rotary engines she would have known this.
She was the type of user that needed a car you could drive 100k with no oil or water in it and never have to pop the hood... but it was a pretty car so she wanted it, and got it, and in the end she got what she deserved for having no idea what she was getting into.
P.S.- my 2004 has 115k on it and is still running great.
If you aren't experiencing any symptoms, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean you could get a compression test for piece of mind I suppose.
As far as longevity of the engine, I personally it has a great deal to do with preventive maintenance and how attentive the owner is to the engine in general. If you are under your hood every other day you are far more likely to pick up on a seemingly subtle change that could actually be, or lead to a serious problem.
That is not to say that there are not failures that are completely beyond the control of any user, but I do believe many could have been prevented.
I remember when the car first came out one of my coworkers had one and went through 2 engines and a very relatively short amount of time. She cursed and bad mouthed what a piece of junk the car was all the time, but knowing her I know she was the type of person that had no place owning a car like this. If she had done any kind of research into rotary engines she would have known this.
She was the type of user that needed a car you could drive 100k with no oil or water in it and never have to pop the hood... but it was a pretty car so she wanted it, and got it, and in the end she got what she deserved for having no idea what she was getting into.
P.S.- my 2004 has 115k on it and is still running great.
08-28-2013, 11:38 AM
#4
My 8 feels strong and doesn't seem to have any of the normal issues that come along with a low compression engine like hot starts. Granted i have never done a compression test, but consensus seemed to be that a car with the mileage mine has that still has the original engine should not be performing like i feel mine is.
And that's just the way it is.
Last edited by New Yorker; 08-28-2013 at 11:40 AM.
08-28-2013, 11:44 AM
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On the contrary. Your engine is performing normally. "Consensus"? Only on the internet, my friend. Most RX-8s perform just like yours. Only you never hear about them. People who own something that works the way it's supposed to have no reason to look for – and then post on – online forums to announce it to the world.
And that's just the way it is.
And that's just the way it is.
Well probably never, but the theory that content people are far less likely to speak up then people that feel they have been wronged is still perfectly sound.
Forums are full of pissed off people and crazy fanatics like myself...
08-28-2013, 11:53 AM
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There are several engines that made it past 200,000 on the original engine. Don't get so hung up on a specific mileage for failure or whatever. Many of the failure methods for the engine are actually failures of other components, like the thermostat, radiator, cat, etc... which pretty much kills any ability to determine the engine's actual wear rate.
I think there is an ID number somewhere on the engine that is supposed to be linked to your car at the factory, so finding this should enable some sort of record retrieval from MNAO. In theory. They may not even have access to that info.
If you don't have any of the reman tags, you are probably on your original engine, even if your compression is fine.
I think there is an ID number somewhere on the engine that is supposed to be linked to your car at the factory, so finding this should enable some sort of record retrieval from MNAO. In theory. They may not even have access to that info.
If you don't have any of the reman tags, you are probably on your original engine, even if your compression is fine.
So this is where you meant to post this...
If you aren't experiencing any symptoms, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean you could get a compression test for piece of mind I suppose.
As far as longevity of the engine, I personally it has a great deal to do with preventive maintenance and how attentive the owner is to the engine in general. If you are under your hood every other day you are far more likely to pick up on a seemingly subtle change that could actually be, or lead to a serious problem.
That is not to say that there are not failures that are completely beyond the control of any user, but I do believe many could have been prevented.
I remember when the car first came out one of my coworkers had one and went through 2 engines and a very relatively short amount of time. She cursed and bad mouthed what a piece of junk the car was all the time, but knowing her I know she was the type of person that had no place owning a car like this. If she had done any kind of research into rotary engines she would have known this.
She was the type of user that needed a car you could drive 100k with no oil or water in it and never have to pop the hood... but it was a pretty car so she wanted it, and got it, and in the end she got what she deserved for having no idea what she was getting into.
P.S.- my 2004 has 115k on it and is still running great.
If you aren't experiencing any symptoms, I wouldn't worry about it. I mean you could get a compression test for piece of mind I suppose.
As far as longevity of the engine, I personally it has a great deal to do with preventive maintenance and how attentive the owner is to the engine in general. If you are under your hood every other day you are far more likely to pick up on a seemingly subtle change that could actually be, or lead to a serious problem.
That is not to say that there are not failures that are completely beyond the control of any user, but I do believe many could have been prevented.
I remember when the car first came out one of my coworkers had one and went through 2 engines and a very relatively short amount of time. She cursed and bad mouthed what a piece of junk the car was all the time, but knowing her I know she was the type of person that had no place owning a car like this. If she had done any kind of research into rotary engines she would have known this.
She was the type of user that needed a car you could drive 100k with no oil or water in it and never have to pop the hood... but it was a pretty car so she wanted it, and got it, and in the end she got what she deserved for having no idea what she was getting into.
P.S.- my 2004 has 115k on it and is still running great.
On the contrary. Your engine is performing normally. "Consensus"? Only on the internet, my friend. Most RX-8s perform just like yours. Only you never hear about them. People who own something that works the way it's supposed to have no reason to look for – and then post on – online forums to announce it to the world.
And that's just the way it is.
And that's just the way it is.
08-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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I did find the alternator had a reman tag on it and when i replaced ignition parts they all looked original. The cat has of recent become suspect all on it's own due to power loss during high heat conditions and occasional smells, but its sporadic and on my list of things to check whe i have some time. I am also getting coolant smells which is probably a failing thermostat and the car also needs a coolant flush, but thats not on the list until dewinterizing next spring spring.
This was my opinion too, but sometimes things just seem to get overwhelming and you start to doubt yourself. I keep up on oil checks because thats what this car needs, but if the weathers nice ill grab a beer and poke in and around at the same time. I don't like surprises with cars so i tend to get fixated and wont stop until a problem is fixed even if it's just a feeling i got going around some random corner. I am curious to know though if maybe someone did something like a Petit engine swap or took the time to rebuild it properly at an indie shop. Those are things i doubt i will ever be able to find out though.
Well this is my first rx8 so my sense of normal may not be 100% accurate. However i do know very well a dog of a car vs a properly performing car so i can't be that far off.
This was my opinion too, but sometimes things just seem to get overwhelming and you start to doubt yourself. I keep up on oil checks because thats what this car needs, but if the weathers nice ill grab a beer and poke in and around at the same time. I don't like surprises with cars so i tend to get fixated and wont stop until a problem is fixed even if it's just a feeling i got going around some random corner. I am curious to know though if maybe someone did something like a Petit engine swap or took the time to rebuild it properly at an indie shop. Those are things i doubt i will ever be able to find out though.
Well this is my first rx8 so my sense of normal may not be 100% accurate. However i do know very well a dog of a car vs a properly performing car so i can't be that far off.
08-28-2013, 12:18 PM
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I see other RX8s fairly regularly but up here in CT (and probably elsewhere) if i started following them trying to flag them down it would probably end in a restraining order rather than a comparison test drive. I'm not so sure if i even found someone who'd let me drive thier car if i would feel the same the other way around. It's to bad we don't really have a tuner car scene around where i live.
08-28-2013, 12:38 PM
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You gonna eat that?
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I love you guys, but,
NO WAY WOULD I LET ANY OF YOU FOOLS DRIVE MY CAR!!!!
Carry on.
NO WAY WOULD I LET ANY OF YOU FOOLS DRIVE MY CAR!!!!
Carry on.
08-28-2013, 12:54 PM
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I see other RX8s fairly regularly but up here in CT (and probably elsewhere) if i started following them trying to flag them down it would probably end in a restraining order rather than a comparison test drive. I'm not so sure if i even found someone who'd let me drive thier car if i would feel the same the other way around. It's to bad we don't really have a tuner car scene around where i live.
I know in my area there is a good local following and we get together semi-regularly and often there is some car swapping (scandalous I know). We are actually talking about swapping cars every run at the next autocross. Obviously you are going to have to get to know someone before you can expect this though.... so get out there and make some little RX-8 friends.
08-28-2013, 02:13 PM
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That's easy to explain. People buy Mazda remans on their own money, or that of a 3rd party warranty, and they get installed away from a dealer.
I remember several threads of people commenting on what they did. One thread that comes to mind had a 3rd party warranty buying remans from dealers, shipping them to a different shop, and that shop installs the engine only to find it was DOA and having to repeat it several times till they got a working engine.
Mazda wouldn't have any record of any of those.
I remember several threads of people commenting on what they did. One thread that comes to mind had a 3rd party warranty buying remans from dealers, shipping them to a different shop, and that shop installs the engine only to find it was DOA and having to repeat it several times till they got a working engine.
Mazda wouldn't have any record of any of those.
08-28-2013, 02:25 PM
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That's easy to explain. People buy Mazda remans on their own money, or that of a 3rd party warranty, and they get installed away from a dealer.
I remember several threads of people commenting on what they did. One thread that comes to mind had a 3rd party warranty buying remans from dealers, shipping them to a different shop, and that shop installs the engine only to find it was DOA and having to repeat it several times till they got a working engine.
Mazda wouldn't have any record of any of those.
I remember several threads of people commenting on what they did. One thread that comes to mind had a 3rd party warranty buying remans from dealers, shipping them to a different shop, and that shop installs the engine only to find it was DOA and having to repeat it several times till they got a working engine.
Mazda wouldn't have any record of any of those.
Also there isn't a standard place that mazda sticks the reman tags is there?
08-28-2013, 02:56 PM
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from what i could garner it was to the right and below the alternator and its supposed to be a blue tag with big "remanufactured" letters on it. I'm going to have to dig deeper and see if i can at least find the engine id number and then try to match it to the vin. The guy i emailed at mazda NA was very friendly and forthcoming with info, ill try and hit him up again if i can find it.
09-06-2013, 03:39 PM
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Just check your trans/mount/crossmember bolts for witness marks(signs of being turned). If they are clean then you know the engine is original. If they have been cranked on then dig deeper and see if the bolts on the accessories have been turned and make an informed guess. Not a hard thing to figure out.
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