jasonrxeight

How many ways there are to install brake pads?
As you can see the photos they are installed correctly.
I resurfaced the rotors and bed in the pads per Hawks instruction.
Also drove several hundred miles before trackday and they were horrible. Almost crashed on the corner after the straight slowing down to 50mph from 100mph.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

hmmmm i never had an issue with my hawks. no track days on them but they saw plenty of abuse on the dragon

Steve Dallas

I really don't have an answer for what the OP experienced, since it is so out of the ordinary. I'm on my 8th set of different Hawk pads on this car and have had no problems.

I think we should be able to agree on at least one thing though. The color of the rotors does not matter. Different pads leave different colored deposits behind. All of my rotors that have been touched by Hawk pads are some shade of gunmetal with varying hints of blue.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

The shim isn't exactly insulating material lol. It's metal, it's meant to conduct heat away from the pad into whatever is touching it. That's how you boil your brake fluid, by conducting heat through the shim into the caliper into the fluid. So whether you touch the metal backing or the pad, the temperature is about the same.

So I dunno about blaming pads for the damaged dust boots.

jasonrxeight

Did two track days with factory pad back in. Freaking love those brakes. No fade what so ever and stop like hitting a rock.
Now I need to find out the brake line fitting inner diameter so I can find plugs to keep the brake fluid draining out once I get the calipers out. What brake fluid should I use? I am doing a complete flush.

Steve Dallas

My current pads are Hawk HPS 5.0 for the street and Hawk DTC-30 for the track. I am using the Hawk shims and have experienced zero problems with them. I just finished off my track pads last weekend, and am trying Carbotech next, but I would have no reservations about another set of DTC-30s.

If I were to track OEM pads at 100%, I would destroy them in 3 sessions. I have tracked them in the past at 75% and found them to be serviceable, but I would never say I love them. They are very good pads for OEM, but they are not track pads. In any case, if you want another set of them, I have an almost new set for sale in the classifieds.

I just use a piece of tightly rolled paper towel to plug the brake line when I have the caliper off. It works well enough.

For brake fluid, I like ATE Typ 200. It performs in the top 3rd of DOT4 brake fluids, and only costs $15 per liter. Motul RBF 600 is also a good choice, but is considerably more expensive. Here is an interesting comparison chart of brake fluid specs.

jasonrxeight

Interesting, I contacted Hawk and they blame my fluids being old not producing enough pressure for the HPS pads to grip which caused he pads to overheat.
Then they also said the pads where never hot enough because the ink printed serial numbers are still visible on the back of the pads.
They have no idea why my dust boots simply melted off.
I am gonna do an experiment once I have the ripped ones out and see if their grease is reacting with the rubber.

Steve Dallas

In looking at your photos again, I would say it looks more like the boots were crimped off more than melted, but since I can't inspect them in person, I have to defer to your analysis.

I have worked with Hawk's customer service in the past, and I managed to get them to substitute another set of pads for a set with which I was not satisfied. Their first response to me appeared to be an attempt to blame the user. I continued on in very polite and self-deprecating fashion, and after a couple more emails, they sent me a set of replacements. I think it is all in the approach with those guys.

For grease on the pins and under the boots, I like Sil-Glyde. It is very slippery and does not swell rubber. For the grease between the shims and pads, I like Permatex Ceramic brake grease. It resists heat well and does not turn to crusty carbon as quickly as other greases do. It DOES swell rubber, so don't use it on any rubber parts.

If you are tracking your car with DOT 3 fluid, you need to bleed your brakes after every track day. It would be wise to upgrade to DOT 4. As mentioned, I like ATE Typ 200. It checks all the boxes for a very low price. Most other DOT 4 fluids are twice the price, but only offer a few degrees of additional headroom. I can get by with bleeding my brakes every 3rd or 4th track day with it and therefore do not feel the need to spend any more money on brake fluid.

If you really stay on top of your fluid and bleed often, you need to mostly pay attention to dry boiling point. If you live in a very humid climate or like to let the fluid ride a while, you need to mostly pay attention to the wet boiling point.

Good luck.

jasonrxeight

Just installed new dust boot. It was rather cake.
Got some Pentosin Super DOT-4. Gonna flush the whole thing.

Razz1

When I look at the first post, I see semi metallaic vs regular HP pad.

You needed to use HP+ or better.

I've switched from semi metallic to cheap regular pads on street cars and you are correct. You can not stop.

Simple fix was to re-install metallic pads.

jasonrxeight

Exactly. HPS pads just don't have the hardness to bite into the rotors. I am very happy with factory pads. Bled the brake fluid and now it really stops.

04Green

iTrader: (1)

I still have no idea what issue you ran into.

I use the HPS on the track. End of straight is 125 MPH or so, turn in for Turn 1 is around 80. I hit the brakes after the 2, and still over brake the damn corner.

I cannot remember, did you change the rotors? I know several folks that have had issues with tried and true pads when the rotors were changed. Some materials do not play well together.

jasonrxeight

Nope, they are factory rotors which I believe is not compatible with the HPS.

Grappler

iTrader: (1)

You guys are scaring me, using street pads on a track and using low wet boiling point brake fluids.

If you are looking for track performance buy track pads and fluid suited for track use.

:edit:
It appears someone already pointed out the merits of a metallic content pad to you and why you shouldn't of bought a ceramic pad. I'll will continue to say you do not want to run OE pads on the track. I'm not trying to attack you by saying this, but I have seen many times first hand what using a street pad will do when used on a track.

:/edit:

Loki

iTrader: (1)

It wouldn't be the rotor, that's just steel. I ran multiple sets of HPSs on the rotors the car came with without any issues.
Transfer layer from the previous pad would do it, but stock is compatible with pretty much everything...

Do you have a lip on the inner or our edge of your rotor that's preventing new pads from seating correctly maybe?

jasonrxeight

Well more serious track then sure but so far I've only done small ish tracks and autocrossing. As far as I can feel I have never felt any brake fade.
But I disagree with you saying rotors are just steel. Steels have hardness.
Here is the said track.


The rotors were turned before putting on the HPS.
After 1000 miles I could still see the machine marks and the rotors were very brown ish.
The marks worn off after just 300 miles with factory pads and the rotors turned silver shiny smooth.

poacherinthezoo

I recently replaced my OEM pads with HPS. I must admit, I'm disappointed. Not because they don't produce sufficient braking force - the HPS and OEM pads can easily trigger the ABS on both ZII's and RS3 2.0's - I'm only disappointed that I tried to save a few dollars and didn't get HP+. The dust and noise of HP+ during street use were completely worth it when you got even a modest amount of heat into them during 70-second autocross runs. Interestingly, I have not noticed any change to color of my rotors.

(Fun side story - while experimenting with different pad combo's to balance brake bais on my miata I tried OEM front pads and HP+ on the rear. Under hard braking the rear tires would lock up before the fronts. I immediately put HP+ on the fronts as well and ended up keeping that set up. I was not expecting that kind of torque from an entry level track pad no bigger than my thumb.)

r0tor

iTrader: (1)

I've been using HPS pads for probably 60k miles on the street, never had my rotors turned, and a did a few few auto-x events without problems. About the only time I felt they sucked was when being dead cold with ambient temps in the 30s and it raining... and even that was only for the first stop.

You had other issues then brake pads dude.

jasonrxeight

Ever since I swapped factory pads in everything went normal.
I exchanged the Hawk pads with a guy on the forum for used factory pads and they perform just as good as my factory pads (same model).
I can't really figure out what can be wrong. Bled the brake fluid and they were in good condition.
Brake pedal felt roughly the same before fluid change.

pcs

iTrader: (2)

are we supposed to replace the dust boot...??? I don't think i've ever done that, lol. Nor have I ever rebuilt the caliper... d'oh.

jasonrxeight

normally as long as they are in good condition, you don't need to replace them. although its good practice to replace them every 60k to keep the caliper from seizing due to rust.

colinshark

I ran HPS on my FC and was not very happy. The stopping power was mediocre, and the loose fitment let them slide and rattle in the caliper. Also, they squealed.

Last year, when I did the brakes on my RX-8, I went with new rotors (Centric Premium) and OEM pads. Excellent bite, feel, and silent. The only drawback is the healthy amount of dust. Have not tracked them.

j9fd3s

the newer good pads are really easy on the brake rotors. i've got no experience with these hawks, but we've run PFC pads for years, and rotor wear after ~48 hours of racing is basically zero.

a good pad won't cut the rotor.

jasonrxeight

Wait what? a good pad won't cut the rotor?
you are telling me something sliding on a smooth surface has higher fiction than something that actually cuts into the material?

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Basically, yes. Brake pads don't work against the rotor metal, they work against a layer of pad material that gets deposited on the rotor, and has a higher coefficient of friction with the pad than bare metal would. That's the case with performance pads anyway, the OE pad might not be so fancy, which is probably why you see bare metal with the OE brakes but 'tarnish' (actually pad material) with the HPSs.

The rotor's main purpose is to dissipate heat.