Thunderbox

The dealers can say whatever they want but they are not following the actual written procedures in their work shop manuals. There is nothing in their manuals that give other conditions about engine change when a compression test is failed other than replacement. All manufacturers agree on this same thing. This is nothing more than an attempt of Mazda to replace less engines. They do this in hopes that your engine will not seriously calf until it is over 8 years old and or over the mileage. They can say whatever they want but the result will be the same. Never buy another Mazda product if you get burnt. Just ask GM how they made out by trying to discourage valid warranty claims. they saved some money short term but had to go bankrupt eventually. Not good business practice. And as a licensed vehicle mechanic for the last 30+ years I know what I am talking about.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

no man, it sucks but with the early engine problems mazda stepped up and extended the warranty even tho they didnt have too. they did people a solid by doing so.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

I was pointing out though, that in my case, a BARO test passed, and indicated that the engine is actually fine, even though I failed the compression test. I was understandably livid at the time, but 40,000 additional miles on the engine proved that the BARO test had the right diagnosis.

And actually, the compression test article in the factory service manual does not specify any remedial action at all based on the results of the test. The remedial action is in the corrective articles, which are all based on a specific customer complaint.

The "Engine Lack of Power" diagnostics article does indeed have the BARO test noted as a measure of engine health.

Does this apply in your case? I don't know the answer to that. But there is something missing to your story, and that piece is probably going to define why they denied replacement.

Plenty of people have gotten plenty of engines replaced, and some believe that up to 50% of RX-8s have had an engine replaced under warranty. They even had a full time reman plant running for 6-8 years there were so many replacements. In the past ~7 years, I have not once seen a member reporting a denial that really was "just because". Every time I've seen a denial while the engine was still under warranty was because A) The engine isn't actually dead, B) The owner abused or neglected it, or C) the owner couldn't prove maintenance.

In your case, I'm going to guess A) The engine isn't actually dead.


And yes, I know what it is to hate a manufacturer. I sued Toyota over how they handled a series of issues I had a decade ago, and no I won't buy another Toyota because of that.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The "RX" stands for "Rotary Experimental". It doesn't have a piston engine, and it's a well known fact that the engines don't last as long as piston engines. And it is in a high strung highly quirky nich sports car. The original warranty was 5yr 60,000 miles, which means originally Mazda decided that it was only expected to last that long. Mazda didn't have to extend it another 3yrs and 40,000 miles, they chose to. No one has really been successful in trying to sue them because the engine failed earlier than they expected. Look at Porsche. 3yr 36,000 is the highest warranty they offer on any part of their car, and they had a HUGE engine failure problem in the Boxster engines from 1998 through 2008 post-warranty, with engines costing customers $25,000 out of pocket (rather than our pedestrian $5,000) Lawsuits were largely unsuccessful.

Legally, once the warranty period has expired, the manufacturer can rightly decline to offer warranty coverage, and there is zero legal precedence for forcing them to pick it up again.

A warranty is a warranty, and once it's up, it's up.

Rx8_sport

Hey guys

First time posting about this, and bare with me because I don't know all the forum "lingo" lol

So finally after getting the initial compression test done, an emissions package (decarb) and then another compression test, they deemed the engine faulty and ordered a replacement. Rotor one is at 6.1-6.2 and second rotor is at 4.8-4.9.

Now all this testing wouldn't had to have been done if the engine wasn't defective.. So shouldn't they cover the hundreds of dollars I've had to fork out to find out this engine is garbage? As well is there any documentation or letters in regards to this?

Thanks!

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If your engine is being replaced under warranty, then the diagnostics required to determine that it has failed are also covered under warranty. If they are covering the engine but sticking you with the diagnostics, complain to Mazda North America customer service.

gwilliams6

RIWWP is correct here, I checked with my regional Mazda rep. All your diagnostic costs that determined your engine was toast ARE covered under the engine warranty.

Crazy.8

Im coming up on my 8 year mark, will they run some diagnostics on it for free just to see if maybe anything is wrong before it runs out?

And how about a recall for my wheels studs and lugnuts, ended up driving on 1 lugnut one time and almost having my whole wheel fall off because all the study broke off. And i swear everytime I look at all my wheels, there is atleast 1 lug nut missing everytime and I bolt gun the **** out of them.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Maybe you should stop gunning the **** out of them. 80 lb-ft is what it needs, not more.

The dealer won't normally do diagnostics for free just because you ask, but you could try. They are not obligated to give you that.

Nick88

I have happily owned an Rx8 since 2009. I bought a red 2004 231 RX8 from the dealership with just 4000 miles on the clock having only had the dealership manager as the previous owner of the car. I drive it everyday but have only done about 38000 miles now. A few years back I had to replace the catalitic converter as it failed but otherwise I have had no problems. I have been getting the car MOT done on time at an official Mazda dealership.

THE PROBLEM:
Two days ago I was driving the car home when it suddenly started to misfire and lose power when idleing. The check engine light came on so I immediately pulled over and called the RAC for a tow. I took it to the same Mazda dealer that carries out my MOT and they told me some bad news;

2 of my ignition coils had completely failed, the other two were working intermittently.
The cables had also failed and need to be replaced
Also a front side engine mounting had failed which Ive been told might also cause the car to misfire.
This has lead to fuel getting into the cat and causing damage so this too needs to be replaced.

All of this has given me a bill of £2550!!!!!!

The thing is the car was performing fine up until this point and the moment I felt a problem I stopped driving it and had it towed. I cant believe so much damage was done in that time.

Ive read that the ignition coils failing are a common fault with the 2004 Rx8.

Does anyone have any advice?? I read somewhere that mazda extended the warrenty on rx8 engines to 8 years/100000 miles, is this true? The mechanic at mazda never mentioned any warrenty so I am not sure.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Do I have any options? I love owning an RX8 but not sure I can afford this repair on my dream car

Loki

iTrader: (1)

The 100,000mi/8 year warranty was for North America only, unfortunately.
What you're describing sounds plausible, but the damage didn't happen on that day, it hapoened over the last X thousand miles that you coils have been failing. There are no symptoms with those things, you just need to replace them regularly.

However, to save money in this case there are things you can do: get coils and wires online, rather than from the dealer, get a used cat in good condition (that alone should be much cheaper than new!). The motor mount has little to nothing to do with the misfire, but it would be good to replace. Someone here could sell you a known good condition used one.

But before all that, did the dealer check engine compression? No sense in investing in parts if the you'll then also need a new engine. Sorry to say that like that, hope it's not that bad!

Nick88

Hi Loki,

Yeah they checked the compression and that was fine so at least a bit of good news. Ive managed to find the parts online for around £1000 so at least that should reduce the costs a bit. Now just need to find a good mechanic in Edinburgh to fit them.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The coil failure wasn't immediate. It happened because you didn't replace them when they started to fail, so they died fast. But the rest of the damage? Yes, it is entirely possible for it to happen THAT FAST. It's why ignition health is so critical on this car.

New and Potential Owners Start Here: Importance of Ignition Health

You have had the car for 5 years, but you clearly still need to learn the basics about this car. It doesn't take kindly to being ignored, even if you aren't aware of what you need to pay attention to. And it will kick you in the nuts and take your bank account if it feels it's being ignored. Similar to a high maintenance woman.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

The coils, plugs, and wires can be done in an hour with basic tools if you don't know what you are doing. Many of us can do it in under 15 minutes. You could save a lot doing those yourself.

1dergirl

Does anyone here know what the qualification is for replacement engine? I recently had compression test on mine and I was told it doesn't look great, and that eventually soon it will become hard to start. I had the test because I'm at 96k and the 8yr / 100k threshold is approaching, and thought it a good idea to have it checked even though I thought (but what do I know apparently?) it's running good. I bought the car used 4 years ago at 36k miles and I have been taking very good care of it. Any advise, info would be appreciated. Both rotors registered just below 85psi in the test.

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

You need 6 pressure numbers and at least 1 rpm number, as well as the altitude the car was at when it was tested. Giving a general number of an average pressure of one or both rotors tells us nothing.

1dergirl

I realize that now. I spent the weekend reading up on the subject and I have new questions about my test result. I'm going back to the technician for some clarification. The guy who did the test didn't know about the warranty, which I thought was tiny bit odd, but maybe someone else there can give me some pointers. I also want to find out about de-carbonizing the motor and replacing the plugs, and what good or bad it might do to do all those in current condition. Thanks

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

If the warranty is still active, then you only have to show maintenance records (typically, sometimes not even that) for warranty coverage on an engine that fails a compression test. Failing a compression test is one of the requirements to trigger a replacement engine (assuming there is an active warranty). You can fail a few other ways, but you only need 1 failure method, not several.

Decarbing CAN improve compression, IF the compression loss is due to carbon building AND the seals have not been unseated for a long period of time (which would wear them unevenly, and decarbing will actually make the compression worse).

The dealer's decarb method appears to work. If you want to decarb at home, then there are some good methods, and some worthless methods. I have a thread where I test out a few of them and use a borescope to take pictures of the interior of the engine to show what is actually happening to the carbon during the procedure.

Replacing ignition (all 4 coils, plugs, and wires...not just plugs) should be part of your normal maintanence anyway. OE coils will start failing by 30,000 miles, auto parts store coils will start failing by 20,000 miles. There are aftermarket upgrades available, such as BHR's proven kit that will last longer than the engine. Note that coil failure isn't an "all or nothing" case. A set of OE coils at 30,000 miles with no misfires was dyno proven to cause a 28whp loss, or around 15% of total vehicle power, vs brand new OE coils. Plugs tend to foul relatively fast on this car. As expensive as they are ($80 for a set), there are a lot of people that advocate changing them every 10,000 miles. At worst, they need to be replaced with your coils when you do those.

Running with failing ignition can have a slow compression loss effect, as the excess unburnt fuel can keep washing off the oil film from the injected oil, so the seals wear faster. It is slow though, and will not be something that will show up overnight.


All of that aside, worn metal is worn metal. It doesn't matter how it happened, there is nothing you can do to replace missing metal without tearing down the engine and replacing everything worn.

CamposRX8

Hey guys,
I have a problem with my 2004 rx8 it has 91,000 miles on it. I just recently purchased it about a month ago and it has driving fine for two weeks. Until I had the clutch bracket fixed because it had broken(which I seen was common on other threads). About a week after that I got in the car and was driving to work and got about half way there and the check engine light started blinking. I came to a stop at a red light an the card died on me. I tried restarting it but it wouldn't. So I towed it to mechanic that I know and and he says the motor is bad. Well the thing is it will start now and you can drive it but it won't idle it's self. And if you let it try and idle it's self the engine light will start blinking and die. But if you keep the rpma past 2500-3000 the engine light stops blinking and it drives perfect but you can't let it idle or go under 1500 or it will be start blinking again and die. And once it kills it's self you have to wait about 1-2 hrs before you are able to start again and you are able to drive it again.
If anyone on here has had the same problem of similar problem can let me know what the fix was or what the problem was. An also would my warranty still be in effect since I have under 100,000 miles? Thanks

gwilliams6

Your engine warranty on a 2004 RX8 was over 8 years after the initial sale date, I assume sometime in 2004, so over in 2012. The warranty is 8yrs/100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...t-here-202454/

Read this to help answer some of your questions. Sounds like an ignition, and/or a cat or engine compression issue.

And then follow this maintenance schedule to check over items that may be in need of attention for a car with your mileage.

30,000 miles:
- Replace Ignition coils
- Replace Plug wires
- Replace Spark plugs
- Clean MAF (mass air flow sensor)
- Clean ESS (e-shaft sensor)
- Reset ESS profile
- Clean power steering connections
- Clean battery terminals and clamps
- Replace transmission fluid
- Replace coolant (Mazda FL-22 is highly recommended)
- Replace air filter
- Replace brake fluid (fluid in the brake lines AND the clutch line)
~$300 USD in parts if you shop smartly.


every 60,000:
...all 30,000, plus...
- Clean all chassis electrical grounding points
- Replace accessory belts
- Clean OMP lines
- Replace rear differential fluid
- Replace thermostat
- Clean / Straighten AC condenser fins
- Clean / Straighten oil cooler fins
- Inspect catalytic converter
- Clean / Inspect intake valving
- Consider / inspect all points in 90,000+ as well, many items fail early
~$130 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

90,000:
...all 30,000, plus any 60,000 not yet done, plus...
- Replace coolant bottle
- Replace radiator hoses
- Replace radiator
- Replace front O2 sensor
- Replace motor mounts
- Inspect clutch pedal assembly for flex / weld breaks
~$900 USD in parts if you shop smartly.

ken-x8

Campos, did your mechanic do a rotary compression test before declaring the engine to be dead?

Three years ago I had flashing CEL, ran like crap (kind of barely ran), and I was convinced the engine was gone. But it was just a couple of bad coils.They can fail without warning. I had collateral damage of the cat and an O2 sensor, but at least the cat was still under warranty. New coils, plugs, wires, cat and O2 sensor, and it's been fine ever since.

Have it towed to a Mazda dealer or a rotary specialist for a compression test and diagnosis. Flashing CEL is not usually a symptom of a failed engine, but if you keep driving it like that the engine can be damaged.

Ken

1dergirl

Great info! Thanks so much for taking the time.

I took it to Sierra Mazda in Monrovia CA last week with recommendation from the guys who did the compression test, and I am getting a new motor! The warranty was still in effect. I was cutting it very close with the warranty limits. The dealer has been AMAZING. They even waived the $240 compression test fee even though they have to do their own test again to submit to Mazda not to mention the free loaner brand new Mazda3. The only thing I have to pay is for the extra parts like plugs and coils. ZERO labor on top of that. Sort of bewildering to encounter such perks now a days. I love Mazda.

This may sound a bit dumb, but honestly, I was not expecting the compression test to come back so low. I have driven many different cars, and my 8 so far is the funnest ride (next up being my 80 Camaro Berlinetta 3 speed). I bought my 8 with 36000 miles on it, and it was running better than when I bought it after putting some work into it like new clutch and such. So I was expecting to replace the plugs soon but didn't suspect the motor, honestly, I thought it ran great. I recommend everyone to have the test done before you hit your warranty expiration.

That said, to better care for the new motor, which I'm so excited about, how often do you recommend decarbing? I'm sure that depends on the driving style. I don't drive like a grandma, but I am forced to spend a lot of time in traffic living in LA. I retired my 8 from the track because of the high miles and my team has track cars (now I can go back on after the wearing in period!) but I do know how to drive a rotary, or at least I try my best when I can.

Thanks again for your great reply.

Bryanmaestre

I had mine replace by them it lastme a year and like usually happend they neglected the repair cuz it was pass the 100,000 miles original waranty and u got tear a new one ? Meeeee cuz had to pay 5,500 to get it fix again. Be careful cuz the engine the put in aint new is reman

cengolia

Very good info here, much appreciated. Bought 04 RX8 with under 100k miles a few months ago. Car acted up on my girlfriend while driving home the other day. She immediately pulled over and shut it down. Had it towed to Mazda as to not risk further damage. She tells me that they say engine is done. I'm offshore right now, so unable to get answers from them until I return in 2 days. Obviously I will ask many questions as to how they came to that diagnosis, but my big question is this....

Yes the car is an 04, but the original engine was replaced in 2011 by Mazda (same dealer it now sits at). Shouldn't the new engine be covered under the 8/100k warranty seeing as it is way under 8yrs old and obviously has much less than 100k miles?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

8 years from the date that the VIN was first sold, 100,000 miles from the original factory. The warranty does not get refreshed with each engine replacement.

So today warranties expired for all RX-8s sold on January 13 2007, even if one had it's engine replaced yesterday.

All car warranties work exactly the same.


Since you have only had it a few months, if you had gotten a compression test before purchase, you probably could have avoided that specific car knowing that it had a weak/failing engine. Not bashing you, just we are constantly trying to spread awareness of pre-purchase inspections / compression test, because of how critical it is. Too many RX-8s are sold because the owner knows that the engine is failing, and we constantly get new owners dealing with making a purchase in complete ignorance of this.