Apex Eater

I am pondering whether to buy one of these two cars, now I know that it not completley fair comparison but these are the two cars I am considering. I perfer the stylings of the RX8 but am having concerns about first year issues (weak a/c and missing HP for example) and the unwillingness of the dealers to negotiate the price to anything below MRSP. I can get an IS for $2-3K less and not have the potiental problems and Lexus quaility. I am looking for a car that will be my daily driver, still have sportiness, and have the ability to transport my baby son home after work. I do not need (nor expect) either to be pure sports cars, I have my Miata for that.

Anyone who has experience with both I would like you hear your thoughts.

Todd

Boozehound

The IS and the 8 were my two final contenders for my dollar when it came down to writing the check, and we all know what I chose. If you haven't driven an 8 yet, get on it - it's a blast. The IS seemed easier to drive around town and would be good to commute in - not to mention the service and quality reputation. But the 8 seems soooo much sportier. Going around the twisties in both really sealed the deal for me. Now that I drive ruler straight roads 90% of the time, sometimes I wonder if the IS wouldn't have been more practical, but you cant beat the looks you get with the 8, and the feel through the corners. As for the baby, I dont' know about putting much in the back seat (after my park ave, this car's backseat looks like a leather package tray), but others on the forum seemed to do just fine with kids. I wouldn't sweat the HP stuff just yet, the car goes like a scalded ape for all intents and purposes, but yeah - who doesn't want more horsepower? Bottom line for me was the sportiness and looks of the 8 won out over service and reliablity reputation - I just hope I don't regret my decision when the warranty runs out. :p

P00Man

the back of the rx-8 has more room than the back of the is 300, beleive it or not
________
Kitchen Measures

pelucidor

I've done over 45k miles in my IS300, and so far I have test-driven the RX-8 three times (the last two times quite aggressively). With or without any HP issues the RX-8 feels subjectively much faster and way more fun than my IS300 at any speed (even with 4 on board the RX-8 and me alone in the IS300). All the controls are near perfect (steering, pedals, gearshift, dials) and there is about the same amount of space/comfort for 4 people (the IS300 can 'theoretically' seat 5 apparently). The IS300 has the worst materials (but great fit and finish) of any Lexus - but still better than most other cars of course and I think the RX-8 is very close in most areas.

I have test driven a lot of cars - usually the first drive is always great (except the Boxster (just after an S2000) and WRX (just before an EVO)), but if I am serious about a car I will test drive it several times over a period of a few weeks. In the case of my alternatives to the RX-8 (Infiniti G35 Sedan, BMW 330i, Audi A4, Audi A6, Lexus ES300 etc) I found them less impressive with each subsequent drive, but with the RX-8 (and also Miata and S2000) it just got better the more time I spent in it. You already have a Miata so you have some idea of Mazda service and reliability (more than I do) - only you can decide if this is a serious concern (tell me if you think it is!).

There is a thread titled 'Test Drive It And You Will Know'. I suggest you do that for both cars, at least twice.

MrWigggles

To me the only reason to get the IS300 is if you plan to turbo the 2JZGE engine it comes with. So maybe a used IS300 makes the most sense.

With the proper tunning, that engine even with a 10.0 compression ratio can handle 8+PSI on pump gas. You should be able to get 325+HP to the wheels without any problems and I would use the automatic it can handle the power. For some reason the 5 speed doesn't have as much pep as it should.

I like Lexus service but the prices are of coarse higher for out of warranty stuff. This is important because the 2JZGE does require some expensive scheduled maintance at 75,000 miles (or so). Basically a $800+ heavy duty tune-up with timing belt changed, valves adjusted and other things adjusted/changed. Thankfully, the 2JZGE is common enough that many people can do the same service for ~$400. My SC300 has the same engine so I know a lot about it.

As far as the car itself is concerned, It is fun to drive but I'm not the biggest fan of its styling and it still seems cheasy to me when I sit in one considering that the Lexus name stands for "Luxury and Elegance".

-Mr. Wigggles

Apex Eater

I wonder about my daily comute as well and I have the same problem of no curves (curse the phoenix area and their grid system). I am not worred so much about the HP as I am about the problems that seem to plague first year cars.

Pooman does the IS really have a smaller back area, this is a big concern since I need to put a rear facing baby seat in the back. I just got the seat today as a matter of fact (he is not due until Dec.) and need to try it out on both to make sure it fits.

pelucidor

The official measurements give the RX-8 slightly more room in some areas (I posted the following on Jan 7th):
However for your specific needs (rear-facing baby seat) the IS300 is slightly better than the RX-8. For example I can sit in front of the (rear-facing) baby seat in my IS300 with my knees on the glovebox. I tried the same thing in the RX-8 and was much more uncomfortable, mainly because a lot of the RX-8 rear legroom is got by putting your feet UNDER the seat in front, which doesn't apply to a rear-facing baby seat.

zoom44

why do you need to put the rear facing seat in either? get a front facing seat that has those isofix LATCH hookups and you are good to go in the back seat of the rx-8. return the rear facing seat.

pelucidor

Any baby below 12 months of age or below 20lbs in weight must be securely fastened in a rear facing baby seat. Once both these condition are met the baby can move to a front facing baby seat. Some seats ('convertibles') like my Graco Snugride can do both jobs - rear-facing up to 22lbs and then front facing up to 40 lbs. Everyone recommends keeping the baby rear-facing as long as possible as it is much safer. Then you move up to something like a Britax Roundabout or Marathon until they are 65lbs and then finally a booster seat until they are 8 years old.

zoom44

had no idea about that rule. thanks. would have bought the wrong car seat for our freinds who just had a baby over the weekend.

Apex Eater

All babys under the weight of 20lbs and 26 in need to be rear facing (so I have been told). Latch system is for attaching the babyseat to the seat. It just takes the place of a seat belt. Granted after he is bigger I can switch to a front facing chair and then it would not be a problem.

Pelucidor: thanks for the info and you are right. The best way to decide is to drive both, however they are stingy about letting anyone drive the 8 around here. I had one dealer tell me they would not let anyone drive one without a signed letter of intent to buy, I walked away from that dealer shaking my head...

Mazda relibility has been good for me (my Miata has 96K and I have had very little go wrong) however that is on a model that has been around for 14 years.

Apex Eater

How is Lexus service? I expect them to give premium service but that can come at a cost.

As a side note I have to say I have been lurking on the IS forum and the help and skill of the posters here is amazing. All they want to do over there is flame you for asking a simple question or make their car as rice as possible...

IIIseries

LOL....ah yes, good ole IS.net. That's quite possibly the worst of all the forums online, and that's saying something.

I had an IS once upon a time. The engine in it, the so-called "bulletproof" str8 6, died one day while cruising back from Austin. Lexus kept me in a loaner for over a month while they decided what to do about it. When I began threatening litigation, they gave me another one, which I PROMPTLY sold.

My mom's GS has had a lot of problems, but she seems to forgive them all since her service department kisses her *** better than my dad after he's pissed her off. People rave about Lexus service, but to me it's no better or worse than any other luxury car company; they just train their advisors to kiss *** better than the others.

sburkett

With the baby seat thing, don't get burned like I did! The "infant" seats fit just fine in the back of my Celica GT-S, but when the kid got to six months old, the larger rear-facing seats wouldn't fit.

So try a big one.

One other downside of the RX-8 is that infernal rear center console. My two year old sits back there and "open, slam", "open, slam", "open, slam", the whole ride. He's now banned from the RX-8 temporarily.

But I love my RX-8 and wouldn't consider changing it, don't get me wrong, just trying to help out another dad!

Steven

pelucidor

For me and the vast majority of people (see JD Power surveys for the last 10 years) the service is amazing. Before I bought my first Lexus I looked at various BMWs and Mercedes - I could be wearing a $1000 suit and $200 shirt/tie and be treated like dirt by those dealers. At Lexus I wore jogging pants and a T-shirt and was treated like royalty. My 72 year old father-in-law (who looks somewhat dishevelled occasionally and doesn't speak English too well) was not allowed to even sit in an SLK at an MB dealership (I had a deposit on one but cancelled it after that) but was again treated like royalty at Lexus. More recently (having moved from NJ to Texas) I find that the German brands have improved a lot in pre-sales (still check out MB, Audi and BMW occasionally).

On many occasions during routine (1 to 3 hour) servicing at Lexus (there is no other need to visit the dealership) I have asked to borrow a car for a while (just for a change) and have been given new vehicles for a week. I have been invited to comparitive test-drive events, cocktail parties, shopping sprees at Neiman Marcus when new cars were being introduced (LS430, SC430, GX470) always with lots of freebies - usually worth $200-$400.

At is300.net over the last four years I have heard of two or three people getting a brand new car if they were seriously unhappy with something - this is unheard of in the automotive industry except under lemon law situations. Lexus specifically sets aside a big chunk of money for each dealership to allow this to happen if needed. The Kellog business school uses Lexus as a case study for success via service (compared to other luxury brands) - I have friend's who attended and told me about it. As you surmise there is a cost - a 5k-7k service will be about $100 (oil change, top up fluids, rotate tires etc) and 15k or 30k can be $300-$500 (so about $1500 for the first 50k miles).

The reason Lexus can have such good service is partly because of their incredible reliability (see JD Powers ever since they started) which means less money spent on those kinds of issues and more money for service. Personally speaking I put 52000 miles on my '99 RX300 (travelled all over the East Coast and Canada with my wife and two huge dogs and a roofrack/skirack) without a SINGLE glitch or rattle or creak. I have so far put 45000 miles on my '01 IS300 without a SINGLE problem or rattle or creak - and I drive it pretty hard. In contrast my '02 Acura MDX had a slightly misalligned steering wheel at purchase, and got a door rattle and a seat squeak before 3000 miles (I am very picky and had them fixed immediately).

In fact there is only one reason that I am not buying a Lexus now and that is a lack of cars I like under $50k. Their car products (as opposed to SUV) doesn't excite me apart from the IS300. I would have got the (ugly) GX470 to replace my RX300 but it wasn't out in time so the Acura was the next best thing. When I am in my dotage I will return to Lexus for an LS470 or whatever is out then.

Finally I will say that is300.net started out much like this forum 4+ years ago. I remember when Webmaster got his car (exactly like mine but a few months later) and got stopped for doing 120mph on his way home from the dealership. Sadly some great contributers (e.g. TEG) left shortly after the car itself came out in June 2000 and the newbies were much less knowledgeable (mostly) and immature - they took over and now it's a scary place to be so I just lurk there - it's all down to the quality of the moderators.

1SICKLEX

WWW.clublexus.com

It shows how versitle the RX-8 is when I see it compared to so many cars. From sports cars to sedans to economy car makers to luxury car makers.

rodmeister

I've heard nothing but good things about the IS300 especially concerning handling and performance, and it is a Lexus with the attendant service and quality. My cousin bought one and my co-worker is getting one.

But I never considered the IS300 as a competiter when I bought the RX-8. I'm a very visual person and I just couldn't get over the IS300's looks. It looks truncated, like the last two feet of the rear got chopped off. It also looks like a Subaru or Isuzu to my eye. Overall it might be a better car than the RX-8 but I can't drive a car which I find ugly. Though I admit the rear end of the RX-8 leaves much to be desired.

jerzeydevil

I had (still have unfortunately) an IS300 and bought it in the first model year....this was from the onset, to be an interim car while waiting for the 8 and to perform as a daily driver without the maintenance pains of my 7. It was (is) a great car, but after driving my 8 for the past week, the two cars don't compare. The 8 is a sports car, the IS is a sports sedan and they wear their respective hats very well.

I can already attest to the following advantages of the 8 (all having to do with it being a sports car) over the IS:

less body roll
altogether better handling and steering
faster and more fun to drive (IMO)

The IS has the Lexus brand going for them...I kinda liked playing life size virtual golf with real clubs while waiting for my complimentary service to be completed. Don't think I'll get that from Mazda.

Other than that it really comes down to what kind of car you want....a sedan (with a little bit of sport added) or a sports car (with a little bit of practicality added).

JD

Apex Eater

Other than that it really comes down to what kind of car you want....a sedan (with a little bit of sport added) or a sports car (with a little bit of practicality added).


JD I think you sumed it up very well and at this point I am leaning toward the 8. I am a sports car eunthusist at heart and I think the 8 will still allow me to have some practicallity with a lot of fun thrown into the mix.

Once again thanks for the replys and good info, now i need to get a sales rep willing to deal.

Has anyone bought their 8 through Costco?

pelucidor

My last longwinded post on this thread was at 1:37am on 8-7-03. Later that same day my red RX-8 came in. I've had it for a week and 500 miles so far and there is no comparison (even staying below 7000rpm for break in) - this car feels incredible, especially the perfect balance between handling and ride. I did not have any regrets about returning my IS300 to Lexus last weekend (leased car). Definitely get the RX-8.

Hercules

pelucidor can tell you better than any of us.. take his word for it