goose guy

I have a 2009 rx8 with 26k miles (bought new). Last month, I noticed my exhaust note sounded a little different. Ahh..just carbon, I thought. Gradually, I began to lose power and I suspected that it was misfiring.

Brought it in to dealership even if there was no CEL warning. They said the first coil was bad and would be replaced under warranty (bumper to bumper warranty expires Nov. 2012) and the spark plugs needed changing. They said the first plug was cracked but I don't believe it. Since plugs are wear-and-tear items, it was not covered under warranty. So I said go ahead and change all of them....to the tune of $450 total with parts and labor. Well, at least the $100 coil was covered...

So I get the car back and WHOAH! What a revelation. Frickin car runs awesome! Better than when I got it new, I think. The engine is smooth (more so than usual) and the power is again available from 3k to redline. Actually...more power than before.

So I'm a happy camper, right?

Well not really.... My son just got his learner's permit and I have been teaching him to drive our new used 2003 nissan maxima se (dropped with tokikos hehe) that I bought for him to use when he gets his real license. So the 8 has just been a garage queen which is fine by me since I've just been a passenger/instructor for the past couple of weeks. But when I brought out the 8 last week, I got a CEL which dumbfounded me considering how well the car was running.

So I brought it to the dealership Thu 5/24. Thur afternoon they said they won't be able to finish. Okay fine. Friday 5/25 they said that they are getting 3 different CEL codes and that they were talking to tech specialists from mazda to try to fix the problems. Because of the upcoming 3day weekend, I won't get the car back until Tue or later so I got 3 days to worry....and maybe reconsider my rx8 ownership....

Brettus

iTrader: (2)

Ok..

Raves44

"If it has **** or tires, it is bound to have problems" This is a very high maintenance car and that is just the way that it is. Hopefully after the dealership figures out what is going on with it you will be happy for a while but just something to think about. If you do not like spending time on your car, you may want to look into a different car. For myself, and I'm sure others on this forum, the smile that this car puts on your face is priceless. I would just wait it out and when you get it back running right decide if you want to keep it or not.

Wingznut

iTrader: (1)

$450 for plugs?!?! That's absolutely insane. I used to be a dealership mechanic, and still I'm saying that's crazy.

Please tell me there was more to it than that.

You can verify it by looking at your original warranty paperwork, as I wasn't able to find any details on the web, but make sure the plugs aren't covered. When I worked for Dodge/Jeep dealers, they were certainly covered by 3/36. And even so, you could certainly make the case that a cracked plug is not "normal wear."

If you choose to dispute this, be sure to bring up that you are a new car buying customer who is now disenchanted with Mazda's service policies. And also bring up the trouble you are currently having... How there was no CEL until you had it serviced, and that they haven't been able to troubleshoot it in a reasonable amount of time.

goose guy

Good one. "If it has **** or tires, it is bound to have problems...but also gives you some level of enjoyment." And this car does it in spades. Been driving the maxima and while it has nice torque and power, it is no where near the 8 in refinement, power delivery and handling. Last time I drove the 8 after not driving it for 3 days, I looked at the car and said to myself, "Man, this is what a real sports car should drive like!"

goose guy

I was actually going to change the coils, plugs, and wires at 30k miles as recommended. Was gonna change it myself with help from friends but coils never made it to 30k and so I brought it to dealership thinking parts and repair would be covered under warranty. In hindsight, maybe it was better because I can blame the problems I'm having now with their faulty repair.

Thank you for your input about disputing the charges for the repair work. You make some very valid points to argue for reimbursement. I think I might just go that route. Thanks again.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Im willing to bet your original problem was not coils nor plugs related, idiots at dealership just hope to rip u off and hope the problem will go away.

Even at 29k plugs shouldnt fail so u should not have to pay.

This is the exact reason why i will never give dealership service department my business, they treat all customers like idiots, too bad i know more than them. Not getting a cent from me.

pistonhater

/\
whar nycgps said

Also, a 'cracked' spark plug is not normal tear and wear. Total BS. Ask them to show it to you.

Dealer charged me an hour's labor once just to clean spark plugs after a p301 code. What a rip off. Never again!!

Well, they also did an exhaust/emissions test to rule out bad cat converter.

But still. Jeez, they really reap people off.

jasonrxeight

sounds like the cat is melted and clogged.
happens a lot when the car is sitting on the lot being turned on and off frequently without giving it a good rev.
mine failed after just 6000 miles. replaced it under warranty and been good. its at 20k now.

goose guy

I'm pretty certain it was a bad coil and/or plug; the misfire was pretty bad and that's why I brought it in for repair even if there was no CEL. I was thinking about a bad cat as well, perhaps caused by the misfiring. Don't know but when I speak to the service rep on Tue, I'll ask her for the 3 CEL error codes and a detailed report of the problems and what they fixed. They did do a compression check during the coil/plugs replacement and they said it was ok, although I didn't get any numbers. I'm just hoping they do a thorough and satisfactory job; if not I'll just use the other dealer for warranty repair....and learn to do the regular maintenance myself.

Anyone else out there with a series 2 that had coil failure before 30k?

ken-x8

Not so crazy if you're a dealer.

Dealer list for plugs is around $250. Add two hours of labor, and that's $450.

Yes, you can buy the plugs for $80 anyplace but a dealer. And it's not a two hour job. But that's how they would have figured it.

Ken

monchie

Dealerships are stealerships. I only bring my car to the dealerships when i have warranty issues.

Roaddemon

I was getting a cel along with a misfire and exhaust note change. Dealer diagnostic indicated bad coils,loose spark plug and clogged cat. Dealers wanted over $2500 to repair it. They wanted to replace the cat, coils and plugs. I said thank you for the info and took my car home and did the coil replacement and spark plugs myself. I used the procedures listed on the net, there is step by step instructions right here, use search. Anyway the car ran fine like new after my repairs. The coils were the biggest problem. They were bad. Coils flooded my cat. After some driving and redlining I cleared the cat and all was well. I had an emission test done and the results confirmed the the cat was fine. It cost me $160 to do it myself. The dealer diognostics cost was $125. So do it yourself and save money. Dealers way overcharge for minor maintenance and service we can do ourselves.

I have 50k on the rx8. It never gave me any trouble until this. So far it has been very maintenance free. Right now it's running like new.

Buy replacement parts at the local auto parts store. The dealer parts are extremely overpriced and no better.

unknown__Disciple

iTrader: (1)

i had my cat replaced around 13k, glad i'm not the only one who had to do this.

goose guy

Good info.. I'm reassured to "stay the course" with the 8 by your post. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

I'm gonna have them pay for everything cause it's still under warranty. Then I'll just do the next coil/plugs maintenance myself at 50k. The rx8club is such a great community (another reason to keep the faith and the 8). Thanks.

RotoRocket

iTrader: (1)

+1

Stealerships.

If it isn't under warranty, stay the hell away from the unethical cesspools commonly referred to as automotive dealerships.

Make friends with an ethical and competent independent mechanic who has experience with the rotary, and the Renesis, in particular, in case you run across a problem you can't diagnose and/or repair yourself.

You'll save money and get far better resolution of problems.

PaPaBear

50,000 miles on my 2008 Anniversary RX-8. Still runs great. 3000 mile oil changes, transmission service and rear diff fluid change (neither at a dealer). Drive it like I stole it and love it.

goose guy

OP here. Update:

Car has been at the dealer for 1 week now (4 working days, going on 5). I spoke to the service rep yesterday to see what's up. He said the codes were indicating sporadic misfire and engine was running lean. Their mechanics were still getting assistance from national mazda techs to fix the car. It's something they never encountered before.

To all the rotaryheads out there, do you have any insight or experience with this type of problem? (I want to appear knowledgeable about rotaries when I speak to the service rep and mechanic.)

Bladecutter

Tell them to double check that they used the right spark plugs and coil, that they snapped the wires onto the coils and plugs nice and tight, and to replace the other three coils if they are getting misfires.

If anyone should know how to troubleshoot a rotary engine, it should be them.
Of course, reality is different than actuality, in cases like this.

I mean, your car went from running right to misfire codes and troubles.
Sounds like their work is lacking quality and a sound troubleshooting sequence.

BC.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

^^word

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

The symptoms are still consistent with a misfire caused by coils (likely), ignition wires, or plugs (unlikely). They may be confused by the high AFR read by the O2 sensor, which is normally interpreted as "lean". A misfire causes unburned fuel pass through the engine (and ruin the cat), but since oxygen isn't being burned, the O2 sensor reads too much O2, so the air/fuel number goes up even though there is raw fuel passing through.

Explained better here: https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=45

goose guy

Makes sense. Spark plugs are new and 1 coil is new. Ignition wires are old. I'll ask them if they tried changing the remaining 3 coils and wires.

goose guy

OP here again. Update #2.

So after 7 days (5 working days) at the dealer, I got my car back. I was missing it badly and I'm glad I got it back but...I wasn't too happy with the dealer service:

1. I brought the car in sparkling clean but since they parked it outside for 7 days, it's
all dirty now from the rain. The least they could've done was wash it considering
how long the repair took.

2. The service guy said the repair would be compd (free cause they took so long).
Huh? Car is still under 3yr/36k warranty.

3. Finally, he said they cleared the CEL by cleaning the throttle body of carbon
buildup. I had to press him on what exactly was done and what was checked.
Coils? Fuel pump? spark plug wires? compression? And why did it take 5 days
to clean the throttle body?

I took long because they had to get help from the national mazda techs. They had to go thru some kind of sequenced checklist. Carbon in throttle body? He said it's common (then why did it take 5 days to diagnose). How was there carbon in the intake? He said that's why they recommend the oil additive when they change your oil. Huh?

I'm not sure how there was carbon buildup in the throttle body. I'm no mechanic but could it be from overfilled oil? I let the dealer do all my oil change so I have documentation in case I need to do an engine warranty claim. But I notice that they always overfill the oil. I know S1 have problems with oil overflowing and getting into the intake but I thought it was remedied for S2 cars. Maybe not.

Anyway I think I'll try the other mazda dealer for other warranty repairs. (My smart key rubber button on the door handle is torn and needs replacement; hopefully it's covered under warranty.)

Sorry for the long rant but I had to vent.

Thanks to all for the help. It's the first time I knew more than the service rep. hehe.

goose guy

BTW, the CEL codes they were getting were p0506 and p0300.

Did a quick google search and found this:


P0506 - Idle Air Control System RPM Lower Than Expected
A P0506 DTC trouble code may be caused by one or more of the following:

A vacuum leak
An air restriction in the intake air path or exhuast
A faulty positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve
Damaged/failed/dirty throttle body
Internal engine problem
Failed PCM


P0300 Diagnostic Code - Random Misfire
A code P0300 may mean that one or more of the following has happened:

Faulty spark plugs or wires
Faulty coil (pack)
Faulty oxygen sensor(s)
Faulty fuel injector(s)
Burned exhaust valve
Faulty catalytic converter(s)
Stuck/blocked EGR valve / passages
Faulty camshaft position sensor
Defective computer


Hope this thread will be informative to anyone having the same problems.

HiFlite999

iTrader: (2)

wrt the overfilled oil, you may wish to take a look at what ASH8 has to say here: https://www.rx8club.com/series-ii-technical-trouble-shooting-160/oil-level-too-high-233957/

I think still most likely is bad coils. Many here replace the stock coils every 30k miles, ordering them at half dealer price or less from a non-dealer source like Mazmart. Others, like me, don't want to mess with that and invest in the coil set from BHR which 'should' last approximately forever. My guess is that the dealer is cheaping out by replacing only one coil. Warranties are nice, but one gets stuck with a dealer which, if they are clueless, can be a big PIA.

If the throttle body was carboned up, there's something else wrong. In the Series I, this can happen with over filled oil, or by filling without a funnel. It can also mess up the MAF sensor which causes all kinds of trouble. Series II is different, but I don't know if anyone besides you has yet tested what happens with 2 extra quarts of oil in the sump. Mazda central probably knows, but it wouldn't surprise me if the dealer techs conveniently forgot to bring up the fact that they overfilled on several occasions, trying to keep themselves off the hook for it.