PsyDom

Hi All,
I have a dilemma, I ordered a FFE trigger kit to go on my REW swap a few days ago only to get an email from them saying the no longer make them and a refund was in the pipe. (It was showing as in stock on the website obviously)
I was kinda counting on that little bit of kit!

What other options do we have? What's the alternative? What is, if any, the issue with using the stock RX8 one on the REW?

Cheers guys!
J.

PsyDom

Hey guys,
Further to the above I've had a few emails with FFE re the trigger.
While the one I ordered is out of production they've said it's actually this one I need.
FD Trigger Mag | Full Function Engineering

I understood it needed to be the RX8 tooth pattern?

To those that are running this setup, which FFE trigger setup did you use?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

What are you using for an ECU?

PsyDom

I *was* going to use the Microtech LTX8 that I have but it was programed for an earlier 13b and has now been added to rhe unsupported list and can't be reprogrammed. Sucks but such is life..

So now I have options but I'm leaning towards a Haltech as I have acess to a tuner I trust that particularly likes them.
I have some research to do yet on the capabilities but thats a likely direction.

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

Best to finalize the ECU and then pick the trigger wheel that will work the best with it.

PsyDom

Fair enough but i thought the point was to have one with the RX8 pattern so as to fool the stock ecu as well as inform the engine management ecu..

What I'm being told here is that the RX8 trigger pattern isn't available.

At the heart of it, the question is does it have to be a RX8 pattern to work with the stock ecu in order to retain PS and ABS or does it not matter?

dannobre

iTrader: (3)

I just added the RX8 trigger wheel as an "extra". As long as it is spinning at crank speed the stock ECU will keep the dash and the steering working properly. As far as I remember the ABS doesn't care if the ECU has a crank signal.

PsyDom

I think I must be missing something. I'll have to re-read the threads relating to it (its been a while and work has taken over toy time..)

I don't suppose we we know of any other good sources of info for further reading? I'm on the .com.au site and some related facebook pages (which are pretty useless mind you) but other than that the best I've found is on our site here.
Cheers

eastie

This has come as a surprise to me also... Done alot of research last year into this swap and this puts a bit of a halt on things...

I think it depends what ecu and if rew or reni front cover...

PsyDom

I've spoken to a guy I know locally in the last few days and he confirmed he's using the FFE with the RX8 pattern + the Adaptronic.
threads on the adaptronic forum also talk about it being the RX8 pattern.

it puts a bit of a crimp in the plans..

having said that, no one has explained why we can use a trigger wheel off an Renisis so far..

eastie

That's a fair question... I would really like to know. Maybe just the mounting of the sensor is an issue?

RMD

Correct, sensor mounting is all. Rx8 factory wheel can be bolted on if the sensor is in the right place. There is a pic on banzai's page that shows a custom bracket (the guys build thread is in here) I'm not sure who made it though. My FFE kit uses the rx8 pattern wheel but has to be offset 20* in the adaptronic to be timed correctly. Factory ECU uses the signal for the tachometer etc and works just fine.

eastie

Thats great news. Yeah ive seen 2 where they had brackets made at about 90deg to tdc... That seems easy enough.

RMD

Here is a link to the pic. Maybe this is or will be for sale at some point. This is what I would have done if available, much cheaper than the FFE kit too. http://www.banzai-racing.com/2014_customers/dawson/install/cas_bkt.jpg

eastie

Oh ok thats lower then the others ive seen... But idea is still thr same i guess

PsyDom

So to play this out, and probably create a bit of a segway, the trigger pattern needs to match the input the RX8 ECU expects and tge aftermarket ECU needs to be able to accept it. Simple enough.
But given the RX8 ECU isnt controling anything, i.e only using the signal to determine engine speed, why does the position of the sensor matter?

I would have thought that even if the timing was off for the RX8 Ecu, if its correct for the aftermarket one you'd be all good. That is, the timing has been offset for the purposes of engine management but the sensor positioned for the RX8 ecu. That seems to be the principle above but I can't see the benifit.

now here is the segway.. and it may be different from ecu to ecu, but is the trigger signal being relayed through the ecu (ie passed through via an output channel) or routed separately to the stock and aftermarket ecus?
If its the latter perhaps there is scope for a secondary sensor or trigger just to fool the stock ecu.

RMD

Sensor position in respect where it is clocked shouldn't matter if the aftermarket ECU can offset the trigger angle. This is what's going on with my setup and the adaptronic computer. You may know but the adaptronic intercepts the signal first and then relays the output to the factory ECU. I would assume that the driver for the tach sees the pattern for rpm but isn't affected by an angle difference in where the sensor is placed. Obviously, spark timing would be affected.

PsyDom

Excellent, my theory stands up then.. I wasn't sure about the signal path to the stock ecu but that helps. It also means that, in theory, the adaptronc ecu could be programed (by adaptronic) to send a modified signal to the stock ecu i.e. the RX8 signal not a factory REW one. But it doesn't for now so no point dreaming..

i guess my final question is does the speed of the signal from the trigger actually matter? (Assuming its not actually running the engine) See I'm not sure what the ecu is actually doing with the signal.. is it an on/off state (eg. Gets the right pattern signal and turns on ancillary devices such as the PS) or is it a case of the RPM affects the strenghth of the PS..
I suspect the former. But if thats correct, in theory, we should just be able to manually power/switch the PS with a little creative splicing..

eastie

Promaz in australia sell rew adapter for rx8 signal. Waiting on further info regarding angles and fit on the cover

RMD

This would be a great product paired with the rx8 trigger wheel and adaptronic. All functions should work as well.

PsyDom

Just had a look at that Promaz adapter and it looks pretty good. I'm in Oz myself so its particularly attractive.

so with this little Gem in play,using the stock trigger wheel and CAS actually soleves the problem. (I assume its a hall effect sensor in the 8?)

it does make worry I've missed something though. Building a bracket is a simple solution to the problem. Why is it so many have gone to such trouble to fit the Renesis front cover for the REW conversion?

eastie

Think its msg sensor. They keep reni to makes it easier for sensor omp and aircon. But requires fair bit of work. Im in aus myself too. Doing it in my garage so the ability to keep the rew front cover but keep all ra8 functions is great.

my thoughts rew cover custom ac bracket. Omp blockoff run the sohn adapter because i hate premix. Either custom bracket or off the shelf like promaz with adaptronic ecu.

RMD

My intial goal was to use the reni front cover for proper timing, and retaining the AC bracket. I even had it machined to fit and mocked up many configurations with pulleys etc. There were plenty of issues that came up with the fittment and function of the cover and it realistically wouldn't fit with my turbo where the radiator hoses attach. Being able to run an rx8 simulated trigger and CAS (mag pickup), on the REW cover, made it a simple solution to getting this to run. Also I'm not sure, but the rx8 OMP might fit on the REW cover. Might. Re plumbing the reni cover for OMP use is an issue as well because the omp's oil path is machined away for counterweight clearance. Again, any method is possible, to me it comes down to what works best for you all around.

With the development of a CAS adapter and the universal control aspect from the adaptronic, I feel that the REW cover will become the standard piece used for this "PNP" swap.

eastie

Couldn't agree more... Makes alot more sence then the mods required to fit the reni cover