bassik277

For all the weightlifters on the forum, what do you guys think of creatine? I have been lifting naturally for a few years now, and would like a little something to boost my muscle gains, (im going for bulk, not endurance). So i decided to buy some from GNC, and I was just wondering why is it necessary to do the "loading phase"? Anyways, for those of you who have supplemented you workouts with creatine have you seen significant gains? And should you take it everyday even when you dont workout? Thanks a lot guys -Alex

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mikeb

I have lifted weights for 7 years now and I go five times a week.

I think the best supplement is protein.
I'm taking andro right now and I have taken creatine in the past
supplements are nice but not necessary IMO
they can get real expensive fast too

The most important thing is what you eat and actually going to the gym consitantly

Broker73

used that before, and also talked to a few nutritionists that also agree it has some benefits.
Combine that with a protein shake in the morning, and mix in some "greens", fibre, "organic oil blend" and some yogurt and you will be surprised at the energy and overall health improvements. I never believed in the holisitic medicine thing until recently, but I spent alot of time talking with those in the know, and it totally changed my outlook. Also take a specific multi-vit designed for men twice a day, and your set !

Texas 8

Where's Criticalmass??? Whatever the hell he did, it worked

cruzdreamer

Yea....Critical mass can answer this one. I bet the best bet is to get your protein and watch the rest of your diet and as Mike says....go consistently. I am lifting weights too but only 2-3 times a week.....not enough. I am female and not looking to be bulky like a man just really toned.

XeRo

hmm...that's kinda tough...creatine in the bloodstrem does nothing to promote mass or toning...it's more of an endurance powder...think of it as Ritalin for your muscles....there are some side effects from it's use, although they go highly unreported and are relatively rare...it's all pretty much based on your body chemistry...i used it when I worked out and so did one of my buddies, he seemed to get more benifits from it...i mean you will see a difference, your muscles will kind of build up "energy reserves". The best benefits I saw were not when I lifted weights but when I played soccer (for anyone interested I played for Auburn University...<--ok ok brag)...it's better for sports requiring short bursts of speed or energy...I guess it all depends on how your weight lifting routine is...if you push yourself hard, rest between sets then push hard...you have the best tendancy here to build up lactic acid which i believe creatine will aid in the prevention of your muscles tiring do to the acid build up...

But the LOAD phase...VERY IMPORTANT...you are introducing a supplement into your body which it see's very little of...unless you eat a TRUCK LOAD of fish for dinner every night....this sort of shocks your body into adjusting to the new in flux of the supplement which in maintenance is alot smaller dose than the load phase....

but Critical Mass like stated above may have better input since he is MASSIVELY bigger than I...

geffy

Take Glutamine instead of creatine it is better in the long run. Creatine works but once you quite you will be at a stand still for awhile. Creatine just makes you look big by filling the muscle with water which is why you have to drink so much so you don't cramp up. Take Glutamine and Protein they are the best combo IMHO.

jonalan

Ditto geffy. Once you stop taking creatine, you will actually lose mass (water).

Glutamine is an anti-catabolic supplement. Which means, it prevents your body from breaking down muscle.

Drink a protein shake with about 5g of glutamine immediately before or immediately after a workout. Be sure to include some carbs in the drink. Contrary to popular belief, the body needs carbs to build muscle, as well.

Also, take about 2-3g of glutamine first thing in the morning on an empty stomach. It helps trigger muscle growth.

Most importantly, get 8 hours of sleep every night. This is the ONLY time your body recovers (builds/repairs muscle).

FamilyGuy

I'm a bit of an oddball for exercise. In college, I tried the 1.5+ hours a day, 4+ days a week thing for about three months. It worked okay. I got stronger at a snail's pace and ate everything that wasn't nailed down without getting fatter. Unfortunately, my shoulders and knees started to hurt like crazy all of the time. That was 8 years ago, and I still can't lift weights three times a week for more than a month or so without developing joint pain again.

Now, to protect my joints and work with my busy schedule (and lazy personality), I do Super Slow workouts once a week. Any half decent amateur bodybuilder is stronger than me, but I'm at my personal best and I keep gaining.

SpYnalChRd81

Creatine is bad
It sickens your liver
Makes you pee more
and plus (or should I say downside...)
When you use it to gain muscle
you will lose the muscle once you stop using creatine
so all that muscle you gained while on creatine is like fake
you're better off going hollistic
weight lift the natural way...

FamilyGuy

Any sources to back up those claims?

SpYnalChRd81

You want proof?

Have you ever worked at a hospital or medical clinic before?
When people come in with joint pains here there everywhere and this disease and that disease, usually they also come in with a long list of drugs they had been taking for many many many years.
All these chemicals just stack up in your body until you get older you can't even function anymore.
But it's not their fault.
Western medication had been a norm to cover up problems so long that they ended up using it generously.

Think about it, if you keep putting factory-processed chemicals into your body, it's no good for you.
The way FDA approves drugs is if the drugs "have more benefits than deficients."
That means every drug out there has some sort of side effect.

For example, Lipitor lowers your cholesterol by sickening your liver. It should only be taken if your cholesterol is like super high up the roof and if your life is in trouble.

America has such a high rate of heart attacks and cancers and alzheimers because of all the hamburgers and steroids and drugs, it is ridiculously preventable. All these drugs out there are just trying to cover up your problems. Maybe if we found the root of the problem, people will live healthier.

I've talked to a guy in my weight class who has been using creatine for some time and now he quit taking it.
The sicken liver thing happens when you take too much and you start to dehydrate and stuff.
It's all over the news if you look around for more information about creatine.
Plus, there is no long-term study on creatine, so better safe than sorry.

All I can do here is give advice.
This is just stuff from what I learned working at various medical clinics and hospitals.

Stick with the protein and healthy diet.
That's all I have to say.

RX_999

I say stick to steroids

FamilyGuy

Well, now we're getting off the topic of the original thread. But basically, I'm a skeptic when it comes to some claims about supplements doing this or that to the body (good or bad).

I'm not saying it is impossible for a supplement to be harmful, just unlikely.

I never took a supplement, ever, and I have lots of joint pain. I just overused my shoulders by doing upper body workouts three or four days a week. Nothing unnatural there, just stupidity on my part :D.

mikeb

LOL


If I'm gonna do a drug it wont be one that makes my @#@# smaller

FamilyGuy

Does anyone know what pg/dl means? I think it is picogram per deciliter, but I am not sure. Anyway, the natural level of testosterone in the blood is a range of pg/dl 270-1270 for men.

Most of the hideously overmuscled bodybuilders use anabolic steroids to boost their level to two or three times the 1250 pg/dl natural maximum. That's well beyond the body's natural production levels, which is why it allows them to gain muscle so rapidly and reach muscular levels way beyond the normal human limits.

What I wonder is, what if you took the average natural bodybuilder and had a physician run periodic tests on his testosterone level. If it was below, say, 1000 pg/dl, have the doctor medicate it up to that level. That way you should get a good boost to your bodybuilding without putting your hormones into an unnatural state. Obviously a lot of research would need to be done before something like this was declared safe, but I think it is worth investigating. If it works? Maybe we can all get decently muscular bodies without being too huge or losing our favorite body part.

mdw33333

OK, I heard some pretty silly assumptions on this thread so I'm gonna clear some things up for people. I'm an ameteur bodybuilder myself and I have weight trained and competed for a good number of years now.

There are 3 components to bodybuilding and I'll list them in order of importance:

1. Nutrition, most importantly, real food, followed by supplements

2. Training Methods, rest is equally important

3. Steroids, HGH (Growth Hormone), and other hormonal supplementation

Now, regarding some of these silly posts, I'd like to say first that creatine is just a delivery system for protein into the muscles. Nothing more. Yes there is water retention from using it, and that is a good thing. Water filled muscles are stronger muscles. For creatine to be effective you have to use it right, preferrably post work out. I mean immediatly after a workout. For someone serious about bodybuilding, it's no secret that taking insulin post workout with creatine and sugar carbs is an excellent delivery system for protein. Insulin is the most anabolic hormone in the body, but only the most experinced bodybuilders should use it. Screw up with it, and you'll find yourself in a diabetic coma. I've used it and it works good for me in 4 week cycles.

Stating the obvious, protein is the single most important "natural" supplement one should take. Some form of protein should be ingested every 2 hours, along with a steady steam of amino acids throughout the day. Once again post workout supplementation is "the" most important.

Supplements are good, but if you want to make gains, get used to "power eating." Food, food, and yes, more food. 4000 calories a day should be a minimum, taking in at least 1 gram of protein per lb. of body weight per day. So if your 200 lbs., take in at least 200 grams of protein. Don't forget about good clean carbs to.

This thread is devoted more towards supplementation rather than the actual methods of weight training so I'll pretty much skip that part. (If anyone has any ?'s let me know)

Finally, they're not for everyone, but steroids are essential for real mass gains. Oh, and anyone that says they shrink your "pecker" is dead wrong and uninformed. Slight shrinkage in the ********* is common, but no ***** shrinkage. The ********* shrink because they cut back testosterone production. When you take steroids, your body eventually recognizes abnormally high testosterone levels and it backs-off on its own production, thus, your nuts shrink a bit. They go right back to normal post cycle.

Side effects vary per person. Personally, I've experienced almost none. I've taken alot of stuff in my day and had mostly positve reactions from it, including growth hormone. Just like anything else, you have to respect it and take it in moderation.

Bodybuilding is a constant battle against your body's own genetics. Pro bodybuilders aren't the only ones living the bodybuilding lifestyle, but they excel and stand out because of there superior genetics.

I'm a bit "streaky" with my "serious " training, but I will say, that for me bodybuilding has always given me back exactly what I've put into it.

jonalan

mdw33333, some of this makes sense. However, you can't make a blanket statement like "4000 calories a day should be a minimum". Caloric intake depends on a person's height, target weight, body type, etc.

Also, I did liked your comment, "Side effects vary per person. Personally, I've experienced almost none." Pretty funny!

mdw33333

jonalon, dude, this isn't rocket science. Trust me, whether your 5'2" and 125lbs. or 6'2" 225lbs., if you want to make "bodybuilding" type gains, you better eat. 4000 calories a day is not a "blanket" figure, its a place to start. I've had stints where I've eaten 6-8 thousand calories a day. I'm too lazy at the moment, but if you set down and plan out a "bodybuilding" diet, you'll see 4-6 thousand calories a day is necessary for anyone, no matter their size.

Secondly, when I stated I had "almost" no side effects, I didn't feel it necessary to discuss specifics. However, if you're curious, I experienced just a few angry moments (nothing serious), and and some minor acne at the beginning (only lasted a couple months, never get it anymore). It was just on my arms and shoulders, like I said, very minor, barely noticable.

Like I stated above, do it in moderation and you''ll be fine.

FamilyGuy

If you want to get huge, steroids are the way to go... but I know a few people that got reasonably strong without them. It just took them a lot longer.

bassik277

Excuse my ignorance, but hypothetically, if I supplement with Creatine for about a year, seeing acceptable gains, but decide to stop, what would happen to the "water filled muscles"? Will they deflate ? And in general, when someone who has been supplementing with creatine for quite a while decides to stop, do they see some kind of strength plateau for a while? and do they lose some of the mass? In short, what are the "withdrawal symptoms"?
Thanks in advance
-Alex

mdw33333

Well, any real muscle fiber gains you made during that year could be maintained by eating right and training right. But the "water," is goes. Always remember, "what comes with the drugs/supplements, goes with the drugs/supplements." With the decrease in water retention, also comes a decrease in stength.

jonalan

Now there's something I agree with 100%. This goes for just about anything.

mdw3333333333 (mind if I call you "md"?), I hear what your saying about calories. You definitely need to eat to grow (and maintain, for that matter). Would you not agree that one should increase caloric intake gradually? I wouldn't suggest that someone who eats 2000 calories a day now, should start eating 4000 tomorrow because they want to bulk up. Adding muscle mass is a gradual thing. For some of us, VERY gradual.

Also, genetics plays a huge part in muscle building. Some people are just plain bigger than others, don't you agree?

mdw33333

Well, as far as eating goes, you should do whatever you're comfortable doing. It won't "hurt" anyone to go from 2000 calories a day to 4000 a day. It's just an adjustment that some people have a hard time with. It's almost like a "reverse" diet. You have to force yourself to eat, instead of not to eat. You just can't go 4 or 5 or 6 hours without eating or supplementation. It has to be a steady flow throughout your day. I know guys who set there alarm clocks to get up and eat at 3:00 am. That's a bit extreme but it works.

Now drugs and supplements are a bit different. Gradual doses are definitely recommended, especially for beginners. Genetics play a big role, and that is what body building is, "a constant battle against one's own genetics."

bassik277

Do any of you guys know if Critical Mass used any of this stuff? (Surely critical mass himself would know)