Icemastr

Anyone think an LS1 in an RX-8 would kick @$$?

GiN

An LS-1 in most cars would kick !#@$!@%! - but the cost of parts and labor to make it all happen (legally) would, in the end, make you wish you had just bought the Corvette from which the motor came out of.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

I think the torque would flip the RX-8 on its roof when you opened the throttle. Just kidding. I used to drive an LS1 powered beast. In some strange way they are a little like the Renesis - they are happier making power "up top".

It is a lot bigger and heavier than a Renesis though.

Cheers,
Hymee.

sea-rx8

50-50 weight distribution and handling would be gone....

But ya a LS1 in about any car is a lot of FUN:D

I would rather see the $$$ spent going in to pushing the Renesis to the edge of performance....

xSxxKxxYx

LS1?? sorry... wuz that?

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

5.7 Litre Chevrolet V8. Alloy block, alloy heads. Overhead valve. Sequential Port Fuel Injection.

Cheers,
Hymee.

Redlinin 8

bwhahahah i was wondering the same thing.

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

Semi automated. It depends on how I am feeling at the time.

Ajax

forget the LS1...

LS2..

Hymee

iTrader: (1)

And the LS1's in the Aussie built Holdens get LS6 intake manifolds

ctupton

Thats just what we need an engine that burns more oil than the rotary... and at least the rotary will last longer than 60,000 miles of spirited driving

shelleys_man_06

Some of my favorites.

http://www.katechengines.com/

http://www.motorsporttech.com/

MTI is right down the street. :D

Ajax

Callaway has always been my favorite..

http://www.callawaycars.com/

rotarygod

As much as I like the LS family of engines, if you want a car powered by one, buy a car powered by one. Go over to the Corvette or Camaro guys and ask them what they would think about installing a Renesis in their cars. They'll give you the same response that I'll give you about doing the reverse. Their's weren't designed for the rotary and ours weren't designed for the piston engine. Leave them where they belong.

RXE16T

RX8 + LS1 = less appeal

I for one, appreciate my high tech "Jap crap" engines as opposed to low tech big bore grunt.

Different horses for different courses IMO.

canaryrx8

iTrader: (3)

if you really had to do it (for whatever reason), maybe a ford engine would be better suited as I think they're a bit smaller and lighter than the chevy, I could be wrong though as I'm basing that purely on here-say.

GeorgeH

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the pushrod small block Ford V-8 is very compact - more so than the LS1. Which is exactly why it is the engine of choice for the V-8 Miata crowd.

Icemastr

[QUOTE=sea-rx8]50-50 weight distribution and handling would be gone....
[QUOTE]

In my opinion 50/50 weight distribution is a little overrated. There are many excellent handling cars out there without 50/50 weight distribution, besides move the battery to the back, remove the A/C and maybe change a couple other things and I bet it wouldn't be to far off 50/50 distribution.

I have never had a problem with oil burning in the 99 Z28 Camaro I put 50,000 miles on, not sure where you get this information from? Last longer than 60,000 miles of spirited driving? Yeah I am sure I could get 120,000 miles of spirited driving with double or even triple the HP of the stock RX-8 out of an LS1. Plus still get 17 city 27 hwy MPG.

Less appeal for some people maybe more appeal for others. Yes a lot of people are buying the RX-8 because of the renesis, but I never said they should all come from the factory with a V8. Did I call the renesis a jap crap motor? If you are under the opinion I don't like imports or rotaries then you don't know anything about me. I have owned an 87 turbo, 88 SE, and 93 RX-7 all modified beyond most peoples cars and I have blown 2 rotary motors (through no fault of my own), raced many miles with rotaries and have pulled and rebuilt a couple of rotary motors. I am a large supporter of the renesis engine and am quite happy with what Mazda has done with the motor and could care less about the low HP claims etc. I wouldn't call the renesis high tech, most of it is based on technology that Mazda has had for quite some time. Yes a lot of research and development has gone into it, but what makes the LS1 low tech? Because it is based on an engine design that has been around for quite awhile? The renesis is based on an engine design that has been around for over 50 years as well.

Swapping motors has been a large proponent of performance ever since modifying cars began. People have been putting larger displacement or better performing motors in their cars for years. Especially swapping a big motor into a lighter chassis. Why bother putting an LS1 into an RX-8? Corvettes aren't my style, I don't like the interior, and it just wouldn't fit my personality otherwise I would be driving one right now, I hate how camaros drive an they are awfully heavy, I would consider the GTO but I don't want to pay for a brand new car that I don't absoloutely love. Why would a camaro or corvette owner swap in a motor with much less HP it doesn't make much sense, however swapping a V8 into an RX-8 would almsot double the HP stock for stock. Makes at least a little sense doesnt it? Just because a motor wasn't designed for a specific car doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't put it in there. Look at how many non-rotary cars have rotaries in them because they meet the specific application.

I don't have the exact figures either but I think the older ford 302's are a little more compact but around the same weight with all accessories. The LS1 swap has been much more popular on the RX-7s so I will stick with that.

As far as weight is concerned, the LS1/T56 swap into a 3rd gen RX-7 yields about only 30 more lbs with all the same accessories as stock. However that motor is also a good bit of extra weight. I am also going to assume that since the T56 can handle a lot more HP than the RX-8 6 speed the transmssion for the LS1 is going to weigh a significant amount more. All in all I would estimate the added weight to be no more than around an extra 150lbs at the most most of which would still be behind the front axle or in the center of the car. Since it hasn't been done before I can't say how the handling will be affected (considering if there is a problem with bump steer etc then those were corrected) since it hasn't been done but based off previous generations of RX-7's I dont think handling would be too greatly affected especially if you removed some of the accessories and mounted the battery in the rear. As far as size goes, I think there is more room in an RX-8 engine bay than in the 3rd gen RX-7s, which it fits just fine into however I haven't done any actual measurements.

How much would the swap cost? Well on a 2nd or 3rd gen RX-7 if you remove and install the motor yourself all of the parts you need including getting a decent deal on an LS1 you can do it for a bit under $8,000 plus you can recoup some money by reselling the old motor and transmission. Even cheaper if you can fabricate the motor mounts, exhaust etc yourself. My estimate is it would be similar cost on an RX-8 however you would need to measure how it would fit, what needs to be fabbed up, etc plus you need need a larger fuel pump, bigger radiator, etc. The initial cost of R&D'ing all it would take would cost quite a bit more.

rotarygod

Understand right now that I am rotary biased. That way this won't appear to be an agressive post.

I don't really care what tradition there is anywhere when it comes to swapping motors. Yes I am a fan of the LS1. It is my favorite piston engine. I wouldn't touch a Ford motor if comeone gave it to me, supplied the donor car, and paid me to own it. Ford's engines are pure and simple pathetic. Look at a Mustang GT or even a Cobra. Sure they're quick but they are also supercharged. You don't need a boosted LS1 to keep up with a Cobra. Ford in general has always been behind in engine technology. Would the LS1 double the power of the Renesis? yes. So would adding a good turbo. The problem is that the LS1 isn't a rotary. The entire appeal of the RX-8 is in the fact that it is rotary powered. That is what makes the car unique. The appeal is entirely gone without the rotary. It isn't a hp issue. If the RX-7's didn't have a rotary, I wouldn't have owned any of them. The same thing with the RX-8. Even if the RX-8 had 350 hp, were the same price, but had a piston engine, I wouldn't buy it. You can get that elsewhere. There's nothing unique about that. You buy a car for the entire package. The entire package includes a rotary engine. If Chevy had actually developed rotaries to this day, we may in fact have seen a nice powerful rotary but they didn't.

I don't have a problem with engine swaps. Just keep it a rotary or find another car. This is all personal preference but I won't even give a second look to a piston conversion in an RX-7. It ruins the car. There was a 2nd gen RX-7 at Sevenstock with a tuned port Chevy V-8. Yay. Big deal. Someone who took the easy way out in the quest for power and ruined a perfectly good car.

93silverFD

Nice post "R.G."

This is what I always want to type to the LS1 people over on Rx7club but I'm too lazy. Anyways, yes the LS1 is a bad *** motor, no, the LS2 doesn't suck. It makes 405 n/a hp with an excellent rpm range, stock. How could you expect it to be the same motor at 60k as it was at 10. I give the same argument for the 3rd gen. Sure my car eats a motor every 30k, but it makes around 400hp out of a 1.3L engine. That usually shuts up the **** talkers.

epitrochoid

if i wanted an ls1, i would have bought one. but there's much more to a car than its motor...

Icemastr

I don't understand what you are trying to say. You say the LS1 and LS2 are good motors and make 405HP NA then you say you make 400HP our of a 1.3L engine having to replace the motor every 30K miles and that shuts all the **** talkers up? Its unreasonable to expect 100K miles or even 60K miles out of a motor making 400-500HP? There are lots of corvettes and camaros out there making over 400HP that I haven't heard of replacing their engines every other year. My idea of a reliable street motor isn't having to rebuild it every 30K miles, constantly watch the water temp gauge to make sure it is not overheating etc. Of course I wouldn't be worried about any of that with a stock renesis or even with some upgrades like ECU, intake, exhaust, etc. I would be worried though with forced induction or very serious porting.

I like the RX-8 as a whole package, excellent handling and braking yet a comfortable ride that I don't mind driving every day, 4 seats so I can take some extra people along every once in awhile, excellent interior, and excellent styling on the outside. I just want something with a lot more oomph than the renesis will be able to provide without me worrying about it having problems.

To bash on someone because they "took the easy way out" by putting a V8 in their RX-7 just seems stupid to me. Like there is something wrong with doing a modification that adds more HP for less money than a different modification? That car was probably faster than a large percentage of the cars at sevenstock, yet weighed less and cost less than a typical 20B swap yet I overhead a couple of comments bashing it. How did he ruin the car? Did the guy at sevenstock who swapped out the VW motor and put in a 13B-T into his VW bug ruin it? RX-7s and RX-8s of all years are excellent cars and I would own any of them even without the uniqueness of the rotary because they are lightweight, good handling cars. Their lightweight compared to their competitors is really the huge advantage for me because it makes the car handle better and faster with less HP and even if you totally strip a camaro, 350Z, corvette, or WRX you still won't be able to hit the weight of a stock 3rd gen which can easily lose 100lbs from stock form without giving up the interior and accessories.

rotarygod

This thread is stupid.

epitrochoid

it is...

with enough money, you can cram a lambo motor into a kia.

seems as though those of us that come from the v8 crowd just want to shoehorn whatever it takes into the car to make it 'fast'. those of us from the import scene are content working with what we have. i've seen very few swaps like this done in a manner that keeps or improves the car's balance, breaking, and handling, the cobra powered focus is one of them

Emsdad

I'm sorry, but whomever said that they could get double or triple the horsepower of a Renesis out of an LS1 and still get 17-27 MPG and put over 120,000 miles on the motor is exagerating.

Triple the horsepower is 714; that is a ton of power. It takes gas to make that power, the current corvette engine gets 28 MPG and produces 405 HP. Your not going to increase the HP by 75% and have nearly the same gas milage. Also that much power is going to put additional stress on the motor, and it's components.

I love my Renesis, and the inline six in my 3 series. Neither one produce huge HP numbers, but there is more to an engine than just the numbers.

I agree this is a stupid thread, and it is amusing to see how worked up people get over something that really doesn't matter. If you like the LS1 and want to put it in an RX-8, go for it.

If you're like me, and love your Renesis, leave your 8 with the motor it came with.

Pretty simple solution if you ask me.