Danieldobbs

ok i got my 2004 rx8 about 2months ago and i love it but i recently went out to start my car one morning for work and it would not start. now i drive my car daily so this is odd for it not to start. i checked all fuses bought new optima red top battery ngk spark plugs wires and ignition coils and the car still only turns over but dont crank up.i tried to deflood it but im not sure if that is the problem now note the car showed no symptoms of not starting before and im relying on my girlfriend for transportation to and from work so any advice would be appreciated or if anyone would has had this similar problem and a resoloution . i dont want to bring it to the dealer plus its no longer under warranty so like i said any advice would be appreciated

BigCajun

iTrader: (1)

Hi, I'm not an expert, but just to get the ball rolling, do you still have a cat? If so, you might want to take it off and try it in case a piece broke up & blocked your exhaust.
Possibly fuel pump failure?
2 things I would think it could be if you are confident your ignition is healthy.
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will check in.
Good luck!

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

Besides what was suggested above, it may still be flooded. Deflooding procedure is easy, but the actual deflooding could take an hour or two. Does it have a manual transmission? Do you know if the starter have been replaced with an updated one despite your new ignition coils and battery? Lastly, what exactly did you do when you attempted to deflood it, did you notice how saturated your spark plugs were when you replaced them?

DarkBrew

My flood was the result of a weak battery

an excerpt of my fix is here https://www.rx8club.com/canada-forum...3/#post4283444

If your plugs are dry when you pull them it's not a flood but if they're wet then follow what we did and it will work

Danieldobbs

Thank you all for your advice my spark plugs were bone dry when I pulled them out after relentless attempts to crank the car but ended in failure. I have heard about the starters not being any good and needing the updated version of them would you think that would be the problem? Also when I def let it be engine all I did was hold the accelerator pedal to the floor for 10 seconds and let off for 10 seconds I read about putting transmission fluid through a vacuum hose and some sort of port and the right side of my engine but I could never find the port so I did not do that procedure also after I attempted to crank it then went to check my plugs for wetness of gasoline I noticed that they were very dirty already and they are brand new and as I cranked white smoke was coming out of my exhaust I don't know if any of this information could help you diagnose the problem but if you need any more info let me know your advice is very appreciated I was going to let my step dad have a look at it but he is not knowledgeable and rotary engines he is just a plain mechanic I was going to let him check it out because I work night shift 6:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. so I have a slim to no time to mess with my car unless I take off

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RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you are only taking pieces of solutions and applying those pieces.

How about going back to the simple things...

You need compression, air, fuel, and spark.

You get compression from the engine rotation at a sufficient speed. You need sufficient battery power to drive the starter, and a sufficiently healthy starter so the electrical juice isn't wasted. You can still have insufficient compression if the starter and battery are healthy by having misplaced seals, loss of oil film, worn seals, shattered/destroyed seals

Air is usually not a problem, as it's very difficult to block the air flow in.

Fuel. It can be excessive or insufficient. Excessive fuel is through leaky injectors or from attempting to start without everything in top condition (flooding). Insufficient fuel can be due to an electrical problem with the injectors, a failing fuel pump, or a fouled/disconnected/dead e-shaft sensor. You can also have contaminated fuel through water in the fuel system, coolant leaking from a coolant seal failure, or excessive oil through failing oil control rings.

Spark. It has to happen, and it has to happen at the right time. This means that the e-shaft sensor has to be reporting to the ECU so the ECU knows when to fire the coils, and your entire ignition system has to be healthy. This means sufficiently healthy coils (~30k mile life average), sufficiently healthy wires (30k-40k), sufficiently healthy plugs (10k-30k), electrical grounding on the engine block to return the current.


So, what do you know you have?

Danieldobbs

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Danieldobbs

Well I know I just bought a brand new NGK spark plugs spark plug wires and ignition coil I also bought a brand new Optima red top battery so the only other firing issue it would have as you mentioned would be the grounding of the engine block which I will need to check the fuel is the first thing I thought of when the engine would only turn over but not fire up I figured it was either a fuse or a failed fuel pump being the little bit of automotive experience I have I looked at the forums to find similar problems and now it's like I'm on a wild goose chase I should have just stuck with what I know about cars in general. I plan to check the fuel pump next I was going to pull it completely out and put it on an extra battery to make sure it works and if it does then I'm not sure where I will go from there I only purchased the new battery because the problem started when I noticed one night I left my dome light on and I went and crank the car to make sure it did not kill my battery it cranked up but the following morning when I went to crank my car for work it no longer started just turned over and over and would not crank up

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DarkBrew

Did you warm up the car when you did your confirmation start?

Shutting off before warm-up could have caused a flood resulting in failure to start the next morning.

Has the car started run since the plugs, wires etc?
What has been done since this condition occurred?

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

This sounds flooded.

Danieldobbs

Okay since the no starting occurred I have changed the battery plug wires and ignition coil and still no start but when I get a chance I will try to the flood the engine so if anyone has any helpful links or videos to show me the best way to do this it would be appreciated thank you

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monchie

Danieldobbs

ok I am currently at work until 630 in the morning I work night shift but I will try this the flooding procedure when I get home my only question is that they have many the flooding procedures out there I have heard a lot of them including the one telling me to put transmission fluid in a vacuum cord on the right side of the engine So how do I know which one will be the most effective? Do I just try them all? Thank you for your help

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Danieldobbs

I just got home and I tried the the flooding procedure of pulling the fuel pump fuse out and burning out the access fuel then putting it back and holding the foot pedal down for 10 seconds and letting off the car crank at one point for like 30 seconds then died am I doing something wrong? Your help would be appreciated

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RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

It sounds like you mixed 2 solutions again.

Holding the gas pedal to the floor does the same thing as pulling fuel pump fuse. Both of them shut off the fuel flow while cranking.

You either
A) pull the fuse and crank in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then put the fuse back and attempt to start like normal

or

B) Hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking in 10 second intervals to empty the engine of fuel, then let off and attempt to start like normal.

If you get a coughing start but it won't stay alive and dies immediately, then repeat the steps until it does fire fine.

It is highly recommended that you have jumper cables connected to another running car as the cranking will drain your battery quite fast. It is easily possible to run the battery low enough that your low battery charge in and of itself causes the engine to flood again as you try to start.


Now, you said " the car crank at one point for like 30 seconds"... do you mean that it was running for 30 seconds? Or that you cranked it for 30 seconds? If you cranked it for 30 seconds, you are killing your starter quite fast, I'd recommend getting a new one soon, if not now. This could be contributing to your problem. 10 seconds at a time, no more.

If you got it to run for 30 seconds and then it died, then by definition it did not flood when it died. There is something else more major going on. Add to the prior list:
- vacuum leak
- cat clogged
- compression loss
- maf fouled
- front O2 dying

These are the reasons for power loss that are not involved in the initial starting sequence. Yes, this is power loss, to the point of shutting off.

Start checking everything. Cat clogged is really viable, as many of the reasons for flooding an engine also have been damaging the cat for some time, plus the fuel from the flood. Cats aren't designed to deal with that.

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

Danieldobbs, you haven't mentioned if you have an automatic or a manual transmission.

Danieldobbs

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Danieldobbs

I have a 6 speed sorry for not mentioning that before but I meant to say the car sputtered for about 3 seconds it never really cranked up and ran it just sputtered a good bit and then died again like it wanted to crank but didn't I'm sorry I should have clarified all of that but I do have the entire night off of work tomorrow so I plan to work on the car a good bit

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RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Ok, then you probably just didn't go far enough with the deflooding yet. Since it spluttered, you have fuel and you have spark, just probably too much fuel still. Keep repeating the deflood till it fires up and runs on it's own.

Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

... or screw on the tow hook(located in the trunk with the scissor jack) in the front and pull-start the car

Danieldobbs

Thank you for your help I will try those things tomorrow when I'm off work and let you know how they work for me

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Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

Yep, good luck. My first time flooding the engine (before I became a member) took me two hours, the first 15 min. drained my battery, the rest was piggy-back to my friend's BMW battery... Most important is to your patience. In the end, you're gonna have a hell-of-a-smoke-show and a brief struggle on the RPM.

Danieldobbs

Thank you for all your help especially grace you have been a good help I got my baby running a few hours ago and ive been driving is ever sence but now I hear a weird rattling underneath I am thinking maybe it is the catalytic converter I might need to either get it or just change it

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Grace_Excel

iTrader: (5)

You're welcome. But you should give a big thanks to RIWWP. He's been very helpful with the logic part, explaining things how this and that work. I only shared from experience how I dealt with the problem... With much help from this forum, of course.

Danieldobbs

o yes sorry riwwp did not mean to miss u too and yes this forum is a lifesaver only one other question though I have yet to find my spare tire lol do they even have one?

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