J_dilla

Apex seals blew. I wanted to get my car fixed turns out buying a new engine and all the costs included with it is way out of my price range. Does anyone know a reasonable price I could now sell the car for? It's a 2004 yellow exterior black leather interior all stock in great condition with 92k miles. Just looking for advice on what I should do.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

How do you know the apex seals are blown?

J_dilla

took it to a local shop. it wont turn over anymore. had dramatic loss of power. started off having to wait 10 minutes before it would start back up then gradually increased to having to wait over an hour. even if engine was running for long periods of time.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

If it won't turn over than it is the starter or something related to that, but you said it started so it's obviously turning over.

If it's a sudden loss of power it's most likely not the seals and you're just being lazy and aren't willing to actually try to figure out whats wrong with it. Its probably the ignition or something.

What CELs do you have?

Roytary

No need to call him lazy here.
Worn out apex seal could cause his firsts symptoms, if a seal gets destroyed, debris could cause seizure '' either from contact with rotor witch could break a piece of it big enough to seize the motor, or break a bearing seal then cause bearing seizure'' ect ...
Not everyone are able to diagnose a mechanic failure by themselves, I would suggest him to have a second opinion from a different mechanic before going further.

On the other hand, considering his mechanic is far from a good one, ignition issue could also be the problem, bad coils as an example could create a sudden lost of power, then flooding, if he tried to start it over and over it could have got as bad as locking the engine up due to large amount of fuel in the cases. But i got hope his mechanic ain't bad enough to not have pulled the plugs out while diagnosing a locked out motor.

OP : did the engine seized while running ? or did it locked while trying to start it ? Did your mechanic tried to turn over the motor using the crank pulley at least once ? Have you seen debris in your oil ?

fireishot34

iTrader: (1)

I would get an additional opinion. People are people and they don't always diagnose problems correctly.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

OP, you don't know the mode of failure yet so don't jump to conclusions. Hot hard starts can mean a loss of compression (not always from apex seal failure) but that is not always the case, it could be a few things. But a compression test with a rotary specific compression tester would be needed to get an accurate picture of what is going on inside the engine. You could also send an oil sample in for testing and if you have seal breakage then it would show up in the oil. It's $25 from Blackstone labs.

As for seizure, that can happen but it doesn't sound like your engine is seized and I have no clue what roytoy is getting on about with bearing seals, etc. And when you say it won't turn over, do you mean it is cranking and just not firing up or do you mean you turn the key and it does nothing?

I suggest taking it to a mechanic with rotary experience or digging in here:

Look at 4-6

http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/2003mazdar..._S01_0016.html

J_dilla

Thank you everyone for your help. The engine started off losing power on the freeway that's when I first noticed it not running correctly. Then it started to not want to turn back on after hot or cold. I'd have to sit for about 45 minutes before it would turn over. It was cranking but wouldn't turn over. I took it to a guy here in town and before he even popped the hood he said it was the seals. I'll look around at shops. Just don't have much money to get it fixed. But I really appreciate everyone's input.

J_dilla

This is my first rx8 and I do not know much about cars let alone rotorary engines. So bare with my ignorance.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

Over what time period was the power loss? If it was a matter of weeks/days and the power decreased significantly then work out seals are very unlikely.

If it was more like a few months then it's more likely, but seals tend to fail very gradually and develop hot start problems which continue to worsen slowly. There's usually not a point where it straight up won't run.

The guy you saw doesn't know anything, the only way to know of is the seals is to get a rotary compression test. Don't go to him again. Do you have any check engine lights?

Colon Terminus

To answer your question:
An '04 with a blown engine but otherwise in really good shape is worth about $3,000 USD.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

Depends largely on where you're located. The going rate here is $4-5k for one with confirmed low compression (it's a very very rare car around here because the stock S1 cooling system has trouble during the summer). In the deep south I've heard of them going for $700-$2000.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

$3,000.00 for an 04'? No way.

My buddy buys and fixes blown RX-8's, he paid under $3,000.00 for the last 2008 he bought, and he paid less than $2,000.00 for the 2006 Shinka he just finished and no more than $1500.00 for any 04' he has ever bought, even GT's and he only buys clean cars, no shitty ones.

J_dilla

It was gradual. I'd say a couple months. No check engine light.

Ratchetbinder

I agree with the others...the mechanic you went to knows squat.

If I'm reading right sounds like catalytic converters might be clogged..or ignition..I'd have it diagnosed by a competent tech with a compression check (etc) before throwing the baby out with the bathwater and taking thousands of dollars in a loss.

youllberad

Take it to Mazda. Pay the 100 dollars to have the problem diagnosed before calling it a day.


I don't post often but this forum is full of information and I usually find everything I need when it comes to trouble shooting. Not saying learn the search tool but I'm saying look around on the forum for people with similar issues and how they went about it.

youllberad

I second the catalytic converter and ignition, my car had similar issues towards end of winter. Cat delete and new ignition system fixed it until I just recently learned my new coils already **** the bed.

I was having hot and cold hard start ups this week. Switched the trailing and leading coils around to see if I could generate more spark on the trailing plugs and it fires up like it always use to. This was a quick way to determine trailing coil failure.

Legot

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, mazda technicians are worthless in terms of how much they know about actual cars.

youllberad

Touché

Roytary

You're right if you meant about rotaries, Mazda techs aren't worst/better than any other Dealerships IMO, each dealerships have some good/shittyy mechanics. The only complaint i have for Mazda is their lack of training they give @ their mechanics about the unusual wankel they're selling. Sad situation for customers when they have to find a competent mechanic on their own.

New Yorker

We're fortunate to have a rotary-owning mechanic where I go, Wayne Mazda in NJ. The service desk gives all the 8's to him.