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I keep reading all over the internet how people are upset over the ending, but I thought it was perfect. Yeah they didn't answer everything but I'm glad they didn't, that wasn't the point of the show. I honestly would have despised the ending if the whole 2 and a half hours was them simple connecting the dots and answering every single question left open.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawrX8
But jamming about how its a "Time Attack" and yet no picture of it actually attacking anything but a crowd of teenagers outside a movie theater.
I agree; it was a great ending to a great show. Yeah it got slow in the middle seasons, but this last one was really good. Lost was a quality tv show; unlike most today.
I was just saying that iloved the ending , i got the ending and they couldnt have possibly wrapped up everything in 2.5 hours ..... buuuuttttttt.
they didnt have to create more questions to leave us with! whose skeletons were those in the cave of light!!!! they didnt have to be there but they were and now i want to know who they were!!!
I liked how they connected jack's mysterious appendix scar with there fight with not locke.
How long did hurley spend on the island?! who did he hand it off to?
did dharma etc still try to do stuff at the island? is that who hurley and his number 2 have to protect it from?
I keep reading all over the internet how people are upset over the ending, but I thought it was perfect. Yeah they didn't answer everything but I'm glad they didn't, that wasn't the point of the show. I honestly would have despised the ending if the whole 2 and a half hours was them simple connecting the dots and answering every single question left open.
see i don't agree with that at all. basically the entire show was just dangling plot thread after dangling plot thread. next week's episode, resolution? nope, another plot thread -- that's kinda the whole point is to see where it's all going how it all ties back together. but instead i just read all day, oh it's the journey. WHAT?? so basically you could just have a bunch of characters running around, doing random things for 6 years that look significant but really aren't, and then as long as they get together in the afterlife, everything is good because it's just the journey that matters. why aren't people more angry? i think i cumulatively may have watched around one season and just got tired of getting yanked around by the writers.
if anything, i found it tedious how every character one after another, remember, remember, remember. after like the 10th flash, it just felt like overkill.
the whole 'everyone's dead' idea is just so so played out. and if the afterlife is all working a 9 to 5 every damn day, well i'll just lay down and die now.
i guess maybe i wasn't invested enough in the show, but did not like
it not everyone's dead. the whole show they weren't dead. they lived through all of that crap on the island . it was real. the wrap up and the sideways was when they were dead..
there is much more i want to know about the island, but i think they did a great job with the other charachters.
...so basically you could just have a bunch of characters running around, doing random things for ... that look significant but really aren't, and then as long as they get together in the afterlife, everything is good because it's just the journey that matters.
Isn't that just like real life?
__________________ Don't try this at home. It could be dangerous. I have years of experience.
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Rotary History:1982 RX7 GS, 1985 RX7 GSL-SE, 2004 RX8 Sport-Continuous Rotary Owner since 1985
Racing History:SCCA Solo II 1979-1986, Skip Barber Comp School 1983, SCCA Club Racing 1987-1993, 2004-2011 Track Days
haven't watched one minute of that show. was waiting for it to be over to see if it was worth checking out on BR later on. i'm still leaning toward skipping it though.
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it not everyone's dead. the whole show they weren't dead. they lived through all of that crap on the island . it was real. the wrap up and the sideways was when they were dead..
there is much more i want to know about the island, but i think they did a great job with the other charachters.
yea i get that. i am talking about the whole "shocking" plot twist ending.
but seriously that's another thing... everyone saying ZOMG it was awesome but everyone died in the plane crash?? they're in love with the whole production but don't even understand it. easy to please.
like you, i wanted to know more about the island. the island is what the whole series is about, but it essentially got relegated to a side plot, because that was just life, and what's more important (supposedly) is that everyone was together afterwards. when you have the happy ending in the afterlife, how can anything on plain ol boring earth be as significant and destined and portentous as it initially seemed when the show first started? they just abandoned it and took the cheap shot, which has been done a million times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alnielsen
Isn't that just like real life?
yea, it sure is, but that's not what i want from my tv. that's why i don't watch reality tv
if you ignore all the dialogue and just look purely at the plot, it's ridiculous. jack's group decides to go to the plane. ok forget the plane, let's go visit locke's group. we're with locke now, ok let's go run away again, back to the plane. no, screw the plane, let's go for the submarine. all for what reasons? 'this is what i was meant to do', or something equally brilliant and reasonable.
i just imagine the writers' whiteboard, with PLANE, SUBMARINE, BOAT written in boxes and lots of arrows going back and forth between them a billion times.
wow.. i guess i didn't like this show more than i realized
Desmond became the healer "A common shamanic concept, and a universally told story, is that of the healer traversing the axis mundi to bring back knowledge from the other world."
now if only we can get rid of all the reality tv shows, and 24.
24 is over. Monday was the last night. It was one of only 3 shows that I watched on traditional network TV.
__________________ Don't try this at home. It could be dangerous. I have years of experience.
Emissions and fuel economy haven't exactly been areas of strength for past rotary power plants, but absolutely no one with a soul has ever cared. - Autoweek
Rotary History:1982 RX7 GS, 1985 RX7 GSL-SE, 2004 RX8 Sport-Continuous Rotary Owner since 1985
Racing History:SCCA Solo II 1979-1986, Skip Barber Comp School 1983, SCCA Club Racing 1987-1993, 2004-2011 Track Days
Got caught up in a few episodes but it never really grew on me. One thing I liked, it was unpredictable. The one thing I hated was the predictable unpredicatability. It just kept veering off the path until it just wasn't fun anymore. It felt like I was watching a roller coster that went off the tracks, flew around with wings, then plunged into a river and got back on the tracks sideways.
It was real. Everything that happened on the island that we saw throughout the 6 seasons was real. Forget the final image of the plane crash, it was put in purposely to f*&k with people's heads and show how far the show had come. They really crashed. They really survived. They really discovered Dharma and the Others. The Island keeps the balance of good and evil in the world. It always has and always will perform that role. And the Island will always need a "Protector". Jacob wasn't the first, Hurley won't be the last. However, Jacob had to deal with a malevolent force (MIB) that his mother, nor Hurley had to deal with. He created the devil and had to find a way to kill him -- even though the rules prevented him from actually doing so.
Thus began Jacob's plan to bring candidates to the Island to do the one thing he couldn't do. Kill the MIB. He had a huge list of candidates that spanned generations. Yet everytime he brought people there, the MIB corrupted them and caused them to kill one another. That was until Richard came along and helped Jacob understand that if he didn't take a more active role, then his plan would never work.
Enter Dharma -- which I'm not sure why John is having such a hard time grasping. Dharma, like the countless scores of people that were brought to the island before, were brought there by Jacob as part of his plan to kill the MIB. However, the MIB was aware of this plan and interferred by "corrupting" Ben. Making Ben believe he was doing the work of Jacob when in reality he was doing the work of the MIB. This carried over into all of Ben's "off-island" activities. He was the leader. He spoke for Jacob as far as they were concerned. So the "Others" killed Dharma and later were actively trying to kill Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley and all the candidates because that's what the MIB wanted. And what he couldn't do for himself.
Dharma was originally brought in to be good. But was turned bad by MIB's corruption and eventually destroyed by his pawn Ben. Now, was Dharma only brought there to help Jack and the other Canditates on their overall quest to kill Smokey? Or did Jacob have another list of Canidates from the Dharma group that we were never aware of? That's a question that is purposley not answered because whatever answer the writers came up with would be worse than the one you come up with for yourself. Still ... Dharma's purpose is not "pointless" or even vague. Hell, it's pretty blantent.
Still, despite his grand plan, Jacob wanted to give his "candidates" (our Lostaways) the one thing he, nor his brother, were ever afforded: free will. Hence him bringing a host of "candidates" through the decades and letting them "choose" which one would actually do the job in the end. Maybe he knew Jack would be the one to kill Flocke and that Hurley would be the protector in the end. Maybe he didn't. But that was always the key question of the show: Fate vs Free-will. Science vs Faith. Personally I think Jacob knew from the beginning what was going to happen and that everyone played a part over 6 seasons in helping Jack get to the point where he needed to be to kill Smokey and make Hurley the protector -- I know that's how a lot of the writers viewed it. But again, they won't answer that (nor should they) because that ruins the fun.
In the end, Jack got to do what he always wanted to do from the very first episode of the show: Save his fellow Lostaways. He got Kate and Sawyer off the island and he gave Hurley the purpose in life he'd always been missing. And, in Sideways world (which we'll get to next) he in fact saved everyone by helping them all move on ...
Now...
Sideways World:
Sideways world is where it gets really cool in terms of theology and metaphysical discussion (for me at least -- because I love history/religion theories and loved all the talks in the writer's room about it). Basically what the show is proposing is that we're all linked to certain people during our lives. Call them soulmates (though it's not exactly the best word). But these people we're linked to are with us duing "the most important moments of our lives" as Christian said. These are the people we move through the universe with from lifetime to lifetime. It's loosely based in Hinduisim with large doses of western religion thrown into the mix.
The conceit that the writers created, basing it off these religious philosophies, was that as a group, the Lostaways subconsciously created this "sideways" world where they exist in purgatory until they are "awakened" and find one another. Once they all find one another, they can then move on and move forward. In essence, this is the show's concept of the afterlife. According to the show, everyone creates their own "Sideways" purgatory with their "soulmates" throughout their lives and exist there until they all move on together. That's a beautiful notion. Even if you aren't religious or even spirtual, the idea that we live AND die together is deeply profound and moving.
It's a really cool and spirtual concept that fits the whole tone and subtext the show has had from the beginning. These people were SUPPOSED to be together on that plane. They were supposed to live through these events -- not JUST because of Jacob. But because that's what the universe or God (depending on how religious you wish to get) wanted to happen. The show was always about science vs faith -- and it ultimately came down on the side of faith. It answered THE core question of the series. The one question that has been at the root of every island mystery, every character backstory, every plot twist. That, by itself, is quite an accomplishment.
How much you want to extrapolate from that is up to you as the viewer. Think about season 1 when we first found the Hatch. Everyone thought that's THE answer! Whatever is down there is the answer! Then, as we discovered it was just one station of many. One link in a very long chain that kept revealing more, and more of a larger mosiac.
But the writer's took it even further this season by contrasting this Sideways "purgatory" with the Island itself. Remember when Michael appeared to Hurley, he said he was not allowed to leave the Island. Just like the MIB. He wasn't allowed into this sideways world and thus, was not afforded the opportunity to move on. Why? Because he had proven himself to be unworthy with his actions on the Island. He failed the test. The others, passed. They made it into Sideways world when they died -- some before Jack, some years later. In Hurley's case, maybe centuries later. They exist in this sideways world until they are "awakened" and they can only move on TOGETHER because they are linked. They are destined to be together for eternity. That was their destiny.
They were NOT linked to Anna Lucia, Daniel, Roussou, Alex, Miles, Lupidis, (and all the rest who weren't in the chuch -- basically everyone who wasn't in season 1). Yet those people exist in Sideways world. Why? Well again, here's where they leave it up to you to decide. The way I like to think about it, is that those people who were left behind in Sideways world have to find their own soulmates before they can wake up. It's possible that those links aren't people from the island but from their other life (Anna's parnter, the guy she shot --- Roussou's husband, etc etc).
A lot of people have been talking about Ben and why he didn't go into the Church. And if you think of Sideways world in this way, then it gives you the answer to that very question. Ben can't move on yet because he hasn't connected with the people he needs to. It's going to be his job to awaken Roussou, Alex, Anna Lucia (maybe), Ethan, Goodspeed, his father and the rest. He has to attone for his sins more than he did by being Hurley's number two. He has to do what Hurley and Desmond did for our Lostaways with his own people. He has to help them connect. And he can only move on when all the links in his chain are ready to. Same can be said for Faraday, Charlotte, Whidmore, Hawkins etc. It's really a neat, and cool concept. At least to me.
But, from a more "behind the scenes" note: the reason Ben's not in the church, and the reason no one is in the church but for Season 1 people is because they wrote the ending to the show after writing the pilot. And never changed it. The writers always said (and many didn't believe them) that they knew their ending from the very first episode. I applaud them for that. It's pretty fantastic. Originally Ben was supposed to have a 3 episode arc and be done. But he became a big part of the show. They could have easily changed their ending and put him in the church -- but instead they problem solved it. Gave him a BRILLIANT moment with Locke outside the church ... and then that was it. I loved that. For those that wonder -- the original ending started the moment Jack walked into the church and touches the casket to Jack closing his eyes as the other plane flies away. That was always JJ's ending. And they kept it.
In the end, for me, LOST was a touchstone show that dealt with faith, the afterlife, and all these big, spirtual questions that most shows don't touch. And to me, they never once waivered from their core story -- even with all the sci-fi elements they mixed in. To walk that long and daunting of a creative tightrope and survive is simply astounding.
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