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Old 09-13-2009, 03:16 PM   #1
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Insurance saying they're not paying 100%

long story short, driving on high way, traffic getting slow, this wonderful car service behind me decided to "bump" my rear bumper. Cracked the MS Rear Under Bumper and part of the stock rear bumper

Their adjuster looked at the car, I sent them quote of the repair, its about 1100 bux.

after about almost a month of waiting. Just got their responds.

they're not admiting 100% fault. only 80%, so they're paying 80%, their reasons is that "the insured claim I was making sudden stop, which causing accident"

I was like wtf? WOW what a full of ****

they want to settle this whole thing by paying 80%.

Of course Im not happy, Its not about the money, its about the part that that ******* was freaking lying (or the insurance just bsing me)

Now question, I will call them on Monday to say Im not happy with 80% bullshit, I want 100%, sounds fair right? but if they say no, Can I sue them at small claim courts ? I took quite a lot of pictures of the damage at the scene. and the location is at a highway. I have a witness (my gf, she was in the car) that my car was moving when I got hit.

how should I "threat" them? like tell them I have witness and if I take this to the court it will cost them MORE than the estimate + my workloss and witness's workloss and other stuff maybe?

any idea is greatly appreciated ! Thanks !
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:28 PM   #2
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long story short, driving on high way, traffic getting slow, this wonderful car service behind me decided to "bump" my rear bumper. Cracked the MS Rear Under Bumper and part of the stock rear bumper

Their adjuster looked at the car, I sent them quote of the repair, its about 1100 bux.

after about almost a month of waiting. Just got their responds.

they're not admiting 100% fault. only 80%, so they're paying 80%, their reasons is that "the insured claim I was making sudden stop, which causing accident"

I was like wtf? WOW what a full of ****

they want to settle this whole thing by paying 80%.

Of course Im not happy, Its not about the money, its about the part that that ******* was freaking lying (or the insurance just bsing me)

Now question, I will call them on Monday to say Im not happy with 80% bullshit, I want 100%, sounds fair right? but if they say no, Can I sue them at small claim courts ? I took quite a lot of pictures of the damage at the scene. and the location is at a highway. I have a witness (my gf, she was in the car) that my car was moving when I got hit.

how should I "threat" them? like tell them I have witness and if I take this to the court it will cost them MORE than the estimate + my workloss and witness's workloss and other stuff maybe?

any idea is greatly appreciated ! Thanks !
Well, first thing... using your girlfriend as a "witness"... not gonna get any mileage out of that one, and the insurance company knows it.

They're probably expecting you to counter with 90%. Can't believe they're doing all this to save a couple hundred bucks. Maybe if the claim is under a $1000, then it doesn't show up on some report some place, and makes them look better. Who knows. It's the way the world works today.
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:39 PM   #3
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Well, first thing... using your girlfriend as a "witness"... not gonna get any mileage out of that one, and the insurance company knows it.
probably. but when you get rear end on a highway, isnt the "rear" car suppose to be 100% liable ? I mean it doesnt matter if I sudden stop or not, right ? he supposed to stay at a safe distance? no ?

Its like if someone is holding a knife and wanna stab somebody, and when I get stab, Im partly liable cuz I didnt dodge it fast enough ? it doesnt make sense to me.

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They're probably expecting you to counter with 90%. Can't believe they're doing all this to save a couple hundred bucks. Maybe if the claim is under a $1000, then it doesn't show up on some report some place, and makes them look better. Who knows. It's the way the world works today.
Yeah, I mean they're doing all these crap for couple hundred bux ...
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Old 09-13-2009, 03:45 PM   #4
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Oh I agree. I thought it was an open and shut case for something like that. It's odd, from what I know.
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Old 09-13-2009, 05:55 PM   #5
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Threaten to take them to court and do so if needed. They are bluffing hoping you wont bother going to the trouble. The car hitting you will be found 100% responsible in court every time. You have the right to lock up your brakes at any time while driving should the need arise. It is the responsibility of the driver behind you to maintain a safe following distance to ensure he has time to react should you need to stop for any reason. I have seen a judge pass this judgement on several occasions. You dotn even need a witness, the judge will note the damage is on the rear of your car and on the front of theirs which unless you backed into him makes it open and sjut.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:02 PM   #6
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Threaten to take them to court and do so if needed. They are bluffing hoping you wont bother going to the trouble. The car hitting you will be found 100% responsible in court every time. You have the right to lock up your brakes at any time while driving should the need arise. It is the responsibility of the driver behind you to maintain a safe following distance to ensure he has time to react should you need to stop for any reason. I have seen a judge pass this judgement on several occasions. You dotn even need a witness, the judge will note the damage is on the rear of your car and on the front of theirs which unless you backed into him makes it open and sjut.
thats what Im thinking

cuz on the letter they sent to me, it saids "I SUDDENLY STOP, CAUSING ACCIDENT". wtf ? first thats a lie, I didnt stop at all. second, like you said, how am I at fault(even 20% like they said), he suppose to watch his front.

Im just asking whatever I need to get my car go back to the way it was before the accident. I think thats perfectly reasonable.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:03 PM   #7
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I would get your ins involved.... that is what they are there for. If you have full coverage, they will take up the remaining end of what is not covered by the other guys ins. Not to mention they will fight for you to get the 100% out of the ins at fault


is there a police report? the police will lay blame in their report
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:11 PM   #8
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I would get your ins involved.... that is what they are there for. If you have full coverage, they will take up the remaining end of what is not covered by the other guys ins. Not to mention they will fight for you to get the 100% out of the ins at fault


is there a police report? the police will lay blame in their report
My insurance is Geico, what they said is they will only repair it back to stock, cuz it was not "reported" to them that I have "aftermarket" parts installed before. they will not cover the MS rear under Bumper.

Thats why Im going after them myself. I have plenty of time to toy with them. I hate people lying about accidents.

Dont have police report, waited 2 hours at the scene they never show up.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:21 PM   #9
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Shaving off 20% doesn't seem like much, but doing that on every claim, even if only a small % are successful adds up to savings.
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Old 09-13-2009, 06:57 PM   #10
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Shaving off 20% doesn't seem like much, but doing that on every claim, even if only a small % are successful adds up to savings.
But imagine how many people it pisses off that have to be dealt with by a human being. As much cost savings are obtained from shaving 20% off, you increase the operating expenditures in escalations and having headcount allocated to dealing with it, and then paying out when you lose.

F'ing stupid, to me.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:02 PM   #11
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In this case, nycgps isn't their customer, so it doesn't matter how much they **** him off.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:08 PM   #12
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Dude fight for that 100%

All insurance companies do this. They do that to save money on their end and hope people wont fight over it -- If you confront them they will pony up the rest.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:11 PM   #13
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In this case, nycgps isn't their customer, so it doesn't matter how much they **** him off.
It does matter... nycgps is the guy that going to call them, and talk to a supervisor... as soon as he does, start the clock. Money is burning out of that insurance company at a rate of well over $100 an hour for paying the rep, the cube he sits in, his computer, the AC to cool him off, the health benefits, his 401K, the rent for the building... etc.

Every second they have to have a person in their insurance company dealing with "Mr. nycgps", fill out forms, answer email, whatever, it costs them money. Yah, I haven't done a cost benefit analysis on this, but I'd bet that it's a dumb move, and it doesn't make financial sense, and I bet nycgps is never going to be a client for that insurance company.

Stupid business practice, in my opinion.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:12 PM   #14
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I would counter them with, My back seems to be hurting since the accident. I thought it was nothing at first, but it's not getting any better. I think I'll go to the chiropractor.
And then they would be liable for medical expenses too.
The guy hit you. You did not hit him.
Also you could tell them that your insurance company is going to handle the damages and they can deal with them from now on. And your getting a lawyer to handle the chiropractor bills, rental car and lost income from time off of work. See what they do then.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:20 PM   #15
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Stupid business practice, in my opinion.
I agree with you. But I can see it from their viewpoint too. The people you mentioned in the process would be there anyway. Unless they are backed up and this is taking time away from work that might otherwise go unfinished, this is "free" and savings are savings.

Kinda like when I worked at AT&T. We had an army of lawyers. Sure lawyers are expensive and legal work isn't cheap - but when you have a billion of them on staff, putting them to work doesn't cost anything more since you're already paying them.
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:20 PM   #16
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I would counter them with, My back seems to be hurting since the accident. I thought it was nothing at first, but it's not getting any better. I think I'll go to the chiropractor.
And then they would be liable for medical expenses too.
The guy hit you. You did not hit him.
Also you could tell them that your insurance company is going to handle the damages and they can deal with them from now on. And your getting a lawyer to handle the chiropractor bills, rental car and lost income from time off of work. See what they do then.

Just a guess, but, yah, I would imagine "100%" doesn't look too bad to that choice
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Old 09-13-2009, 07:27 PM   #17
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I agree with you. But I can see it from their viewpoint too. The people you mentioned in the process would be there anyway. Unless they are backed up and this is taking time away from work that might otherwise go unfinished, this is "free" and savings are savings.

Kinda like when I worked at AT&T. We had an army of lawyers. Sure lawyers are expensive, but when you have a billion of them, putting them to work doesn't cost anything since you're already paying them.
Nah, nothings free. In this day and age, they have staffing models and resource planning down to a science.

Having a bunch of lawyers is considered cost avoidance and they can easily justify themselves. Avoid one massive lawsuit and they're paid for.

I think is just some beancounter's idea to save a few bucks per transaction by "throwing a 80% offer out". By his calculations, it would save millions, and that's what he pitched. Bullshit. I bet that guy doesnt have a job next year.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:01 PM   #18
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I didn't read all the post but I deal with Auto Ins companies all day long, they are just bluffing. Tell them they have until a certain or you will retain and attorney. Did you do a recorded statement already? Did you tell them you were not hurt? Don't forget a loss of value claim as well.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:42 PM   #19
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The driver is suppose to have 100% control of their vehicle at all times.

Which we know is not the case, but that's the answer I got when i talked to the police. I didn't think I was going to make a red light one time, so I slammed on my brakes, but the semi behind me with two flatbeds of cinder blocks thought I was going to run it...and so was he. He jack-knifed and dumped his blocks. Long story short, I called the cops-told them I thought I caused an accident and wasn't sure what to do as there was no contact. They said, doesn't matter if you stop suddenly or not, the other vehicle is responsible for maintaining control of their vehicle.

Don't let them take advantage of you because they are a bunch of greedy, pathetic excuses for human beings. I'd counter and take them to the cleaners... but then again, I can be kind of vindictive.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:49 PM   #20
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I thought NY was a "no fault" state? And it didn't matter "who did it"?
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:39 PM   #21
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Oh yeah, if NY is no fault then that is a whole other story. Didn't think of that. FL is no fault I believe as well.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:01 PM   #22
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Some states...the "no fault" thing only applies to the medical aspect of the accident. They still assign fault to the physical damage of the car.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:04 PM   #23
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Some states...the "no fault" thing only applies to the medical aspect of the accident. They still assign fault to the physical damage of the car.

I think you are exactly right. I'm not familiar with the details of No Fault states.
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Old 09-14-2009, 12:28 AM   #24
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I didn't read all the post but I deal with Auto Ins companies all day long, they are just bluffing. Tell them they have until a certain or you will retain and attorney. Did you do a recorded statement already? Did you tell them you were not hurt? Don't forget a loss of value claim as well.
I told them no one was hurt "at that time"

maybe my back is hurting now ? no ?

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I thought NY was a "no fault" state? And it didn't matter "who did it"?
I dont think "no fault state" really means "everybody is at fault" (if thats what you're trying to say)

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No-Fault States: Because the tort (lawsuit) system has led to long and costly court battles over who was at fault and to what degree, policymakers in many states decided to change from a fault-based system to some form of a no-fault system.

Under no-fault automobile insurance laws, the good driver does not have to prove that the crash was somebody elseís fault before getting his money. His insurance company picks up medical bills, rehabilitation costs and lost wages up to the amount he purchased. The tradeoff is the injured person cannot sue the other driver for pain and suffering, emotional distress and inconvenience. (If you live in a no-fault state, the no-fault portion of your auto insurance policy is usually called PIP or Personal Injury Protection.)

At present, there are 12 states that have no fault insurance:

No-Fault States:
Florida
Hawaii
Kansas
Kentucky
Massachusetts
Michigan
Minnesota
New Jersey
New York
North Dakota
Pennsylvania
Utah

When it comes to physical damage to your car or its contents, unlike compensation for bodily injury claims, insurance claims are still based on fault. Those claims are handled in the same way as those in a state with a fault law: by filing a lawsuit against the bad driver or looking to your own collision insurance.

Lawsuits, however, are permitted for injuries meeting a certain threshold, the definition of which varies considerably among the no-fault PIP states. An injured person can sue if the claim exceeds either a monetary or verbal (descriptive) threshold. In monetary threshold states (see below), medical expenses must be over a certain dollar amount. In verbal (descriptive) threshold PIP states (see below), injuries must be relatively ďsevereĒ (significant loss of use of body part, disfigurement, permanent disability, bone fracture) or expressed in terms of length of disability (full disability over 180 days). Some states have both, in which case an injured person can file a liability claim if he meets either one.

Because of the different hybrids in the PIP packaging, whether you can file an injury liability claim really will depend on the specifics of your stateís no-fault automobile law. Your best first step is to contact a car accident attorney to discuss how the relevant state law looks at fault and how that law affects your right to recover damages.
I guess that means I can still get "100%" of the "psychical damage" of the car. correct ?

Im getting some sort of back pain lately, like around my left shoulder. do you guys think I can still check it at a doctor and "maybe" file a claim against them? cuz I told them no one was hurt at the scene.
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Old 09-14-2009, 05:02 AM   #25
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when i was sued i used my ex-gf, and 2 of her friends as witnesses. it works. the plaintiffs failed horribly.

i rear ended them too. but it was their fault. they were going almost half my speed (25mph) and i was doing 40-45mph. they claimed they were going slow due to the wet roads. speed limit was 45. every does that at least, even the judge had something witty to say about them going that slow. they were in the lane next to me, when they suddenly cut me off and hit the brakes to stop in the left lane at a green light and pull an illegal u-turn.

lolzorz.

and they had the gall to sue me.
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