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here is the article and the part about the rx8 forum (int bold)
"Quote"
Flies on the wallpaper: Carmakers catch buzz while camping out on enthusiast websites
By JOHN D. STOLL
Typical focus group: airtight room, white walls, moderators, No. 2 pencils, ambiguous questionnaires, a coffee break, lunch if you’re lucky. Result: Pontiac Aztek, et al.
“What focus groups say they would really like in their next car is not reliable, because they are, in the research, not really paying for it,” according to a now-legendary memo to General Motors brass from product development boss Bob Lutz.
Automakers aren’t giving up focus groups, but some are finding better ways to listen to, or in on, the thoughts of people who really care about the brand in question via Internet chat rooms and e-bulletin boards.
Nissan did just that the day it started showing its 350Z concept at auto shows, says Fred Suckow, senior manager of 350Z marketing. Nissan began combing sites such as http://www.z-car.com,http://www.freshalloy.com (the destination for Nissan enthusiasts) and http://www.zcca.org[/url] (official website of the Z Car Club Association) to scope the skinny on Z’s resurrection.
Although Nissan floated photos and specifications for the Z, it stayed away from posting any messages. Then Suckow’s minions sat back and monitored reaction.
“Here are my four things,” wrote one visitor to http://www.zdriver.com in April 2001 after seeing photos and viewing the concept car at an auto show. “Front intake needs to be more aggressive. Headlamps should be more scooped or horizontal. Back end needs to be slimmed down. A little more glass on the cockpit.”
Karthik Iyer, who leads business development for Intelliseek, a company that monitors web buzz for a number of automakers, says unsolicited feedback from true enthusiasts is sometimes the best advice.
Intelliseek helps corporations act as a “fly on the wall,” he says, identifying the most influential voices in chat rooms and on message boards. The company organizes relevant and reliable feedback and provides it to clients seeking information on everything from new vehicle development and current vehicle improvements to what fans of the competition are saying.
For example, on a project for Lincoln, Intelliseek found the top complaint of LS owners was a lack of trunk space. People who didn’t buy the LS said the same thing.
Currently, the research firm is evaluating buzz surrounding next year’s Mazda RX-8. Much like the 350Z, the RX-8 has an enthusiast following and Mazda is particularly interested in collecting data on the car’s strengths, weaknesses, potential and acceptance, says Mazda spokesman Kevin Everhart.
A perusal of enthusiast sites such as http://www.rx-8forum.com and rotarynews.com should give Mazda a good read. One enthusiast suggests that the prototype “doesn’t look enough like the 7,” another laments the shade of yellow shown in Detroit is rumored unavailable on the production versions. Yet another begs Mazda to “just accidentally ‘leak’ a tidbit here or there to keep the rotor-heads fed.”
One of the more popular auto enthusiast sites, http://www.vwvortex.com, has a direct link with the manufacturer while remaining independent. The site attracts thousands of snippets of chat per day and Volkswagen closely monitors what’s being jawed about, says VW spokesman Tony Fouladpour. Topics range from owner’s lifestyle to repair tips, from VW-owned Bugatti to VW’s first sport/utility vehicle, the Touareg.
“This is the first SUV I would consider purchasing,” insists one visitor. “If you don’t offer a manual transmission, I will not purchase one.” Twenty-three others weighed in on a manual Touareg, most wanting one in the U.S. market.
Recently, VW used the site to gauge interest in a special edition GTI 337 based on the 25th Anniversary edition GTI sold in Europe. VW of America saw an opportunity to capitalize on the outpouring of U.S. enthusiasm for the car, especially expressed on vwvortex.com, according to Fouladpour.
“You guys asked for it,” reads VW’s 337 online ordering guide, “that’s why we gave our enthusiasts first crack at getting their hands on a GTI 337
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That's is really pretty bright of car makers to gauge what their true prospective customers find most valueable in thier soon-to-be released cars. That must be one of the reasons that the RX-8 seems to be everything I want in a car.
I just hope they were reading when I asked for a factory installed Turbo model, or a Mazdaspeed edition being released cocurrently with the regular one.
Oh, yeah Mazda: We want the fancy, custom, made to match child safety seat, complete with the rotary style button. Like the one that's been pictured in the red show car. Offer it as an option, but don't gouge us with it. That's a great feature that makes it easier for us guys to sell our wives on the car with.
ABSOLUTELY! when i first showed the car to my wife (what is it, 2 years ago now for the red one?) and told her that it was my next car she said "but when we have a child where will they sit?"
so i showed her the four seats and the matching child seat and she said ok. she is totally on board for buying this car because of the photos with that child seat. it is a must have!
I think the first bit of info they should leak is the "ifs" and "whens" of the Mazdaspeed version. I have seriously considered getting my $500 deposit back until I know what and when that is. I don't want to spend the next decade hating Mazda for jacking me for being among the first in line for their new product.
__________________ Jim Linnihan...................................
I'm with you Grimace. Make anything that adds weight an option. Too many standard features makes a boulevard cruiser, not a sports car. I'm pretty certain Mazda has that figured out though.
And PLEASE don't waste space on MY car for a cup holder. The first person drinking ANYTHING in my car will promptly be left on the side of the road with their beverage.
Just keep thinking "optional". The only thing that should not be optional is an ignition switched cell phone jammer. I think all makes and models should come with them standard. :D
I just got the issure of the July 29, 2002 AutoWeek and i also spotted the aricle, your right though they didnt type the URL correctly Too bad theres a picture of a blue 350Z on the bottom instead of an RX-8...
__________________
Put the pedal THROUGH the metal.
Hey, getting input from potential buyers is only a good thing. Well, unless the potential buyer in question says something like too much power, or leave it N/A for good. Then they need to totally disregard those opinions.
Originally posted by NOTA V6 Sweet! Good find freekwonder! :D
I think the first bit of info they should leak is the "ifs" and "whens" of the Mazdaspeed version. I have seriously considered getting my $500 deposit back until I know what and when that is. I don't want to spend the next decade hating Mazda for jacking me for being among the first in line for their new product.
sort of like how we were told the MP3 was going to be the only of its kind so i go buy one. and now later this year they are coming out with the mazdaspeed protege. basically my car with more power. ya, ask the guys on protegemp3.com board if they werent pissed about that one.
The RX-8 is my first new car purchase, at age (soon to be) 34. The only reason I would ever buy a new car is because I am enthusiastic about it, plan on keeping it for life, and want one that is a virgin (never had another owner). i.e. new RX-8, RX-7, RX-9, RX-?, etc.
I guarantee you that I would never buy another new Mazda (which I plan on doing, as I am trying to slowly try to turn my wife into a rotary/Mazda addict like me) if they jack me on the RX-8 like that.
I trust Mazda will do the right thing. If they don't, then they can bet on a loss of business from me in the future. I'll stick to the used ones with reasonable prices. Let's face it folks. Even a $16K "budget" car is a LOT of money for most of us. A new car is the 2nd largest ticket item most of us will buy in our lifetime. Making your second largest purchase and getting the second best when you should have been hand fed the best for being among "the faithful" will leave a sour taste.
Let us know about any special models before the option orders are actually written in stone Mazda. PLEASE! :D I won't mind waiting an extra 6 months or year for it if I know it's coming and I can buy one instead of the first model. Let the information flow...
What I wonder is, with so many varying opinions, who are they (the Mazda lurkers) going to listen to? We have lots of extremes here, some want a bare bones pure sports car (without cupholders, with cloth seats, stiff supsensions), then you have others who want some fancy comfort and convenience equipment (NAV, fancy stereo), while you even have another group who want to lop off the roof and make a targa/convertible.
In the end, they'll probably try and keep most people happy and aim somewhere in the middle. Hopefully, the real car enthusiasts who are longing for a real sports car wont be let down.
What about the Mazdaspeed package as a later option?
This was mentioned before and as a consumer I wouldn't be too pissed if I could upgrade my RX-8 with the same Mazdaspeed treatment as any other buyer who bought a new RX-8 anytime after me. Granted that I could get it for the same price and same warranty. Acura does this with Comptech products, why not Mazdaspeed?
On another subject, who was complaining about the RX-8 not looking enough like the RX-7?
Quote:
One enthusiast suggests that the prototype “doesn’t look enough like the 7,”
I think the rotary forum put it nicely by saying the RX-8 "is not" the RX-7. Different car, different looks. I think the RX-8 with its current looks is beautiful just the way it is and I hope they bring it here just like that. However, performance is still my #1 issue. This car had better perform as expected :D .
i'm with NOTA V6 on this one. i'm halfway or so thru 33 myself and this will be my first ever new car purchase. the more info i have going into this purchase the better. i'm willing to hold out for this car because shelling out 25-30 grand for this car is not an easy thing for my wife and i to do. i would hate it if a couple of months after buying one of the first ones they (mazda) announce the new better version. i plan too have this car for a long time so the least they could do is let us now their plans up front and let us make the decision whether to wait or get one when they come out. also offer any upgrades available thru mazdaspeed with warrenties included especially engine upgrades if we let dealer service departments install them. man am i long winded!
last but not least mazda has to offer that child seat, my wife really likes it! and the kid will have fun riding in it too:D
i noticed more people here are more worried about a Mazdaspeed version coming out after the new model is sold. Now you know what us MP3 guys are going thru with the Mazdaspeed Protege. but if you go to mazda's website and go under Vehicles > Mazdaspeed. something for the protege pops up and on the bottom corner it has a few links, like Q & A, performance parts. Under the perfomance parts the press release they have says
"Mazda will eventually offer a complete line of Mazdaspeed performance-enhancing parts and accessories for Mazda vehicles in North America. This line will include competition parts, developed for track and off-road use. along with a host of aftermarkte parts and accessories developed for the performance-minded street enthusiast.
and I've already confirmed with my service department that if they install it, it wont void my warranty.
For one, I think we know that the rotary is different. If the Mazdaspeed version is turbo, the engine internals will be different (big assumption based on existing rotary cars) to offer lower compression. Unless Mazda has figured out a way to make boost safe on a high compression rotary...
And, while getting the goods after the fact and having them installed by Mazda while not voiding the warranty is pretty close to the real thing: a) it will be far more costly to do it afterwards. The Mazdaspeed version would come as an existing package deal, whereas buying the package later would involve paying for Mazda tech labor at what, $80/hr? b) It will not be the Mazdaspeed version. That would be like buying a white '88 RX-7 TII and putting all the 10th Anniversary options on it when what you really wanted was a real 10th Anniversary Edition RX-7 and paying a Mazda tech to do it for you. And c) How far through the warranty will my first batch RX-8 be when these parts are available? I don't want half of the warranty gone when I could have bought the Mazdaspeed version and had a full warranty on it while the bugs are getting worked out. Finally d) Will Mazda finance the parts I buy later into my existing loan too? I'm not paying cash y'know... :D
I appreciate that the parts would be there, but that option would be pretty far down on my list while forking out $25K+. I guess I am old fashioned, and believe that businesses should cater to people spending so much money...
I never said it would be cheap or easy. i know n/a and turbo rotories are alittle different. i never mentioned turbo above. and the press release just said parts. it never named spicific parts. i was just trying to get a point across that the parts will be avaible later down the road. and power isnt always everthing. suspension goes A LONG WAY. my 140 horse MP3 can beat a 911tt, corvette z06, and almost hangs with the lotus in the slolam. true i cant hang with them on the track. but on the track i can hang with mustang GTs, RSX's, Z28's. im not much of a straight line guy i like curver roads.
plus if i did get the RX8 i would leave it stock and modify my MP3. but thats just me
Basically that website is "throwing a bone" to the Protégé crowd that is evidently a little miffed about the same issue I am talking about. The website mentions a Mazdaspeed turbo for the Protégé, and rumor has it that the Mazdaspeed RX-8 may be turbo. Hence my reference to turbo.
Power isn't everything, but customer satisfaction is. If I am paying $25K+ for a car, I want the best one I can buy, and not to be screwed out of the sport model because I had enough enthusiasm to be among the first in line. Suspension stuff still costs tech hours to install. It is my understanding that Mazda must install the parts for the warranty to still be in effect. Am I wrong? Cheap isn't the issue. Mazda bellying up to the bar to quench the fires they themselves started with the up-scaling of the RX-7 FD out of the price range of most rotary enthusiasts of that time, and the neglect that many current rotary owners feel is ultimately an end result of their overstepping that line is the issue. As a first time new car buyer, I can say that an additional $8K in mods that could be had in a package for $3-4K is starting to put the car out of my range, and back into the upscale market where the FD already lost that lovin' feeling for all of us for near a decade now.
I understand that the RX-8 will go through changes in design, and improvements in offered packages and power/suspension trim and settings. That's the nature of the world. Things move on. What is getting under my skin is that there are already no real beefy details available for the RX-8, and already the rumors are flying about a Mazdaspeed edition with equally unavailable specs. And there's no indication in the least of a time frame for the Mazdaspeed edition. I want a ballpark time frame on the suped up model before I spend the next 3-5 years paying for the first one to be available.
Just a friendly reminder to Mazda to take care of those who kept the dream alive even when they withdrew the rotary from our market. We'll keep the flag waving if you give us a good flag to wave. :D
sorry didnt mean to make it seem like i was trying to start a flame/hate war. just putting out some other points, in an intelectual way (which i cant even spell so how can i have a good conversation). :D its all good i would still like to be your friend . and yes the MP3 crowd is very pissed off with mazda for what they did. but we have about 2 or 3 turboed MP3 running around on the protegemp3.com board. i know its going to be Expensive for tech to do stuff for the car. But i beat some of the people who buy the car are lucky and dont have to worry about money. unlike me. the only bad thing is, if everybody waits around for the Mazdaspeed RX8 and the standard RX8 doesnt sell they probably wont make the Mazdaspeed version. so i will buy the non-turbo version and suffer for all you guys who want the mazdaspeed version :D
Hey, no bother. This internet thing is kinda difficult to use for conversations that can run so close to the emotional quick. :D
No harm intended. Rotor on!
Jim
BTW, I don't want a turbo version myself. I'd rather have the 280hp+ NA engine, or a 3 rotor NA. Hell, I don't even know if I want the Mazdaspeed upgrades, since we don't really know what they are. But I'm not the only one Mazda would alienate for making the wrong move here...
For all you guys who are worried about a future Mazdaspeed version being released...how do YOU think Mazda should handle it?
If they say "yes, we are releasing a 350HP turbo version a year or two later", then a lot people will wait. Which means poor sales for the initial RX-8, and which could mean "bye bye rotary!". Especially if father Ford has a big say, which we know they do.
If they don't tell us now, they sell more 8s and all is good for the rotary and they get the go ahead for the Mazdaspeed version and possibly a new 7!
What the hell do you need 350HP for anyway? So you can beat muscle cars in a straight line??? Joy! Get a camaro and save yourself some money. It's nothing more than a pissing contest!
What really matters is how fun it is to drive and I think 250HP should be enough. I think the Miata and MP3 prove this. Remember the 1st gen RX-7? Not terribly fast, but a blast to drive even by todays standards!
That's awesome...and smart
Too bad theres a picture of a blue 350Z on the bottom instead of an RX-8...
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