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The Activematic has tip shift capability, a la Mazda6, and could have steering wheel mounted paddle shifts
well we know there wont be paddle shifting (at least at first)
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There is also a chance that the new MX-5 could have its piston engine replaced with the RENESIS, making Mazda's sports car family an all-rotary affair.
i thought whats his name the father of the miata said this would not happen?
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The RX-8 set to be launched in Australia in late May next year, is already geared up for an open-top version.
may seems more and more likely all the time. and that sounds like confirmation of a convertible. hard to tell what the source said and when the reporter is putting in his .02.
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Mazda have not officially declared that the RX-7 program is to go ahead, however, insiders with the Hiroshima manufacturer claim the car is well advanced and could be unveiled publicly as early as the Detroit Motor Show in January.
I particularly liked the part about them ruling out turbo and looking for ways to increase the engines capacity.
Now that's what I'm talking about!!
As far as the Miata going rotary, not in a million years. What has made the Miata the Miata is that it is fun, simple, lightweight, 4 cylinder, RWD, inexpensive, and easy to maintain. Until the day the Miata dies it will encompass all these attributes.
Needless to say, there could be a Miata-esque rotary roadster with a totally different look and totally different name. That would be nice too. Great for eating those Boxster S's, S2000's, and Z4's for lunch, while the Miata would continue as the car it has always been.
Originally posted by Jerome81 Needless to say, there could be a Miata-esque rotary roadster with a totally different look and totally different name.......
Originally posted by Jerome81 What has made the Miata the Miata is that it is fun, simple, lightweight, 4 cylinder, RWD, inexpensive, and easy to maintain. Until the day the Miata dies it will encompass all these attributes.
A rotary car is more fun than any other car I can think of, a rotary engine is far simpler, lighter weight and cheaper to produce than a piston engine. The ease of maintenance is there it is just on a different scale, the number of parts that can fail is far less, maybe you change the oil more often but that doesn't require a degree as opposed to changing a timing belt or rebuilding a head.
I don't see what the big deal is with putting in a rotor in the MX-5, unless it it too high powered (200+). If the rotary is of similar size, weight, and cost, what is the problem?
Somehow, that seems a ludicrous, pretentious, and utterly baffling principle. Mazda is the rotor company is it not?
It should be piston for the sake of being piston? Why? Some strange and outdated tradition like arranged marriages? Is the answer so simple that I can't figure out why? How about being underpowered? Should the miata keep that tradition as well?
Originally posted by fuz Somehow, that seems a ludicrous, pretentious, and utterly baffling principle. Mazda is the rotor company is it not?
It should be piston for the sake of being piston? Why? Some strange and outdated tradition like arranged marriages? Is the answer so simple that I can't figure out why? How about being underpowered? Should the miata keep that tradition as well?
It's because the Miata, as simple as it may seem, is a combination of many different items that give it a certain "feel". Having a 4 cylinder piston engine is a part of that "feel". If you install a rotary instead, then you've changed the "feel" of the car. It has become more like an RX7 convertible then a Miata.
Have you ever owned, or even just lived with a Miata for a couple of days? Have you ever owned, or even just lived with a convertible FC (or even a normally aspirated FC coupe would be a decent comparison) for a couple of days? There are many many similarities in their "philosophies", but they are still different cars. And if you want something like the Miata, the convertible FC just isn't the same.
It's not pretention to say that the Miata should stay a piston engine, it's a knowledge and experience with the two cars.
---jps
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"The truth is faster than fiction."
Of course the FC is different. The major difference is that the FC is larger, heavier, more luxurious car, and the styling is very different. The rotary/piston difference is almost irrlevant in comparison - if you put a RENESIS in a Miata, it would still be very different from the FC. The spirit of the Miata is that it is a small, light, simple and fun car. Ask any Miata enthusiast, and they'd probably tell you it's those qualities that draws them to the car, not the fact that it has 4 pistons.
Also, the more rotaries that are built, the cheaper they will be to manufacture, parts will be cheaper and easier to get, and aftermarket support will be more plentiful.
Plus, I think it would be a great move for acceptance of the rotary, due to the popularity of the Miata this would mean a lot of rotaries in a lot of garages. At a time when there are far too few rotaries on the road and the future of the rotary is still uncertain, this is just what it needs.
Originally posted by m477 Of course the FC is different. The major difference is that the FC is larger, heavier, more luxurious car, and the styling is very different. The rotary/piston difference is almost irrlevant in comparison - if you put a RENESIS in a Miata, it would still be very different from the FC. The spirit of the Miata is that it is a small, light, simple and fun car. Ask any Miata enthusiast, and they'd probably tell you it's those qualities that draws them to the car, not the fact that it has 4 pistons.
Also, the more rotaries that are built, the cheaper they will be to manufacture, parts will be cheaper and easier to get, and aftermarket support will be more plentiful.
Plus, I think it would be a great move for acceptance of the rotary, due to the popularity of the Miata this would mean a lot of rotaries in a lot of garages. At a time when there are far too few rotaries on the road and the future of the rotary is still uncertain, this is just what it needs.
I agree, what better way to win acceptance of the rotary by installing it in a nationwide bestseller?
You can bet some other companies might investigate in the technology.. and then we get a NEW breed of automobiles all with great torque curves and lower weight!
I also think it would be a great idea to put a rotary engine in the miata/mx-5. It would make the car lighter so it would handle even better than it already does, and it would give it some more punch. And like somebody else already said, it's just what the rotary engine needs: Popularity, people have to know what a rotary engine is, so it'll sell more, costs can be reduced and the technology of the rotary can be developed better. And it might get other manufactors thinking off also re-introducing a rotary engine (like mercedes once had in the past).
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Put a tiger in your rotor and let it growl...
Originally posted by m477 ...Ask any Miata enthusiast, and they'd probably tell you it's those qualities that draws them to the car, not the fact that it has 4 pistons...
I am a Miata enthusiast, and I can tell you that having the small 4 piston engine, with it's drive characteristics and sound, is a key part of it.
---jps
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"The truth is faster than fiction."
I also don't agree with the "feel" analysis.. You guys think that if Mazda put the rotary with say 200hp into the Miata at current prices, people would say: "I'm not going to buy that pos car now, it doesn't have a 145hp 4 cylinder engine in it anymore"?
Personally speaking such action would make me a potential buyer. The current Miata "philosophy" doesn't do it for me, not enough hp under the hood.
Originally posted by Quick_lude ...The current Miata "philosophy" doesn't do it for me, not enough hp under the hood.
Well, hearing that from an FWD owner, it doesn't surprise me. Some think it's underpowered, but no car is going to be everything to everybody.
It's a whole package of simplicity. When you start adding things, you start adding costs and you take away from the simplicity, at which point, you ruin the formula that has been extremely successful for some thirteen years now. Whether reason(s) one might want to attribute that too, the sales seem to prove that the power levels aren't as much of an issue as some claim. It's that simple, and I don't know how else to explain it. If you don't get it, then I guess you don't get it.
---jps
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"The truth is faster than fiction."
Yes, you could add a renesis, but the point of the rotary is a high performance, high output engine. The Miata philosophy is AGAINST this.
Yes, more power and speed are nice, for some. For about 600,000 others over the past 13 years, it is something else. That something else is the light weight, tossable feel, wind in the hair, smile a mile wide feeling you get in the Miata.
The reason Mazda has not put in a rotary already (besides when the car was designed way back when, the engineers were told to make it nearly impossible to put in a rotary) or another higher power piston is because it does more than just add power. For any extra power you add, you must add weight. Not just for the engine, but you must beef up the chassis, brakes, drivetrain, gearbox, suspension, really almost every key part to the car. Suddenly the Miata becomes what every other car already is. A high power overweight pig. Yes, you could use lighter parts, but then any essence of affordability goes straight down the toilet.
The Miata's popularity comes from those who understand that speed is not their priority. Every other car manufacturer on the face of the earth already does that. Why would Mazda want to be an also ran? They have locked into a niche of people who are looking for that lightweight car, whether or not it is the fastest car out there.
A moderately powered 4 cyl is what makes the Miata concept of light and tossable possible. More power just negates all that.
I would say Mazda has done quite well. Heck, the Miata brand is one of the most famous ever, and is hands down better known than the "Mazda" make. The worlds best selling sports car doesn't come from making just another two seat convertible. The Miata is a philosophy, or an art. It is not something that is understood by people obsessed with horsepower and acceleration or even skidpad grip. Too bad too, because I bet if some of those people who dismiss the Miata because of its just "average" numbers actually drove a Miata, Mazda would have sold 1,200,000 Miatas by now.
If you don't get it, and one drive in a Miata doesn't get you to understand, you will never understand it.
The more Mazda's that get the rotary, the better. Nissan has the 3.5L V-6 in just about everything.
That is the only way to make future development cost effective.
I think the rotary is too expensive for a car like the Miata. The rotary may be simple in principal. However, that does not make it inexpensive to produce. I have *heard* the tolerances on a rotary engine about 10 times tighter than a reciprocating piston engine.
Only Mazda knows. Does anyone know if any commercial businesses rebuild rotarys? Everytime I see an add for an RX7 with a new motor they seem to always say "new factory" engine.
Originally posted by Sputnik Well, hearing that from an FWD owner, it doesn't surprise me.
Are you implying that a FWD car cannot have the same characteristics as a Miata with emphasis on handling and nimbleness? While I agree RWD is preferrable, what about the Mazda Mp3? On the top ten of best handling cars or whatever that was on R & T? Heck even my Prelude was picked as the best fwd handling car under $30K at the time. That is a very elitist statement..
The whole point of using a rotary is getting a high power to weight ratio. ~200hp is not a lot of power; I don't think there is a great need for major upgrading to handle it. The 1.8L 4 is virtually at it's limit. For more power, they will have to increase the displacement, or add more tech, making it more expensive, eventually making the prospect of using a rotary highly desirable for its small size, light weight, and high power output. A detuned rensis wouldn't be too expensive either. Virtually every review begs for more power, and so do many enthusiasts. I think it's about time Mazda did something about it.
Power doesn't define a sports car, it is only part of the equation. But still, without power, it is missing a good sized chunk of the sporting nature defined for automobiles. A track is not all turns, and barely hitting 8 sec 0-60 is certainly not sporty.
For it's power increase, does the Celica GT-S have any major upgrades compared to the GT for a 40hp boost? No, just the rear brakes and bigger tires. Hardly a major upgrade, and hardly expensive. Just the same for the RSX and RSX-S. The only difference is a slightly firmer suspension and a six speed. Doesn’t sound like the massive numbers of upgrades you listed.
Like what people are arguing in this forum elsewhere, a sporty car cannot live by handling alone. It must have good acceleration--not necessarily the best, but enough. The MX-5 Miata, doesn't have enough. It feels great when being driven--its super fast, unimpeded, direct handling is excellent. That is what I think when someone says, miata, and that is the miata experience for me. Still, the thing I have in the back of my mind is, “if they could keep the same car, but just up the power, it’d be perfect.” I want the power to be part of the miata equation, but it is not. It simply doesn’t have enough to be factor. That is why it needs more.
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